I have a customer that is getting started in target shooting. He was in the range the other day shooting a 300 round. He was getting a bit frustrated. He said he couldn't figure out why he was getting some low shots.

He said, they may not be perfect but they shouldn't be that low in the 4 ring. So I watched him shoot and didn't see anything obvious that should be causing the lows.

I said let's check out a few things on your bow. We put the bow in the hooter shooter and got it to full draw. I noticed the timing was off just a touch. So we started shooting it with the hooter shooter. We pulled arrows after each shot and marked the paper where the arrow landed. This bow would have been breaking arrows like crazy.

So I said, let's check the creep tune. Well, we found a problem. When hard into the wall, the arrows would drop low. If you were really hard into the wall, it would drop 2+ inches. This was not good an should be corrected.

So off to the bow press I go. I put one twist in the buss cable and repeated the test. Bingo we got all the arrows in the same group.

So don't let anyone tell you it's not important to thoroughly test your target bows. You want your target bow to be setup as forgiving as possible.

I purposely left the brand of bow off because I don't really think that is important here. But if you have any sort of 2 cam system and are serious about spot shooting, creep tune it!

I have a customer that is getting started in target shooting. He was in the range the other day shooting a 300 round. He was getting a bit frustrated. He said he couldn't figure out why he was getting some low shots.

He said, they may not be perfect but they shouldn't be that low in the 4 ring. So I watched him shoot and didn't see anything obvious that should be causing the lows.

I said let's check out a few things on your bow. We put the bow in the hooter shooter and got it to full draw. I noticed the timing was off just a touch. So we started shooting it with the hooter shooter. We pulled arrows after each shot and marked the paper where the arrow landed. This bow would have been breaking arrows like crazy.

So I said, let's check the creep tune. Well, we found a problem. When hard into the wall, the arrows would drop low. If you were really hard into the wall, it would drop 2+ inches. This was not good an should be corrected.

So off to the bow press I go. I put one twist in the buss cable and repeated the test. Bingo we got all the arrows in the same group.

So don't let anyone tell you it's not important to thoroughly test your target bows. You want your target bow to be setup as forgiving as possible.

I purposely left the brand of bow off because I don't really think that is important here. But if you have any sort of 2 cam system and are serious about spot shooting, creep tune it!


good info as always, glad to see you posting......

my question is, how important is it to creep tune on a single cam???

I have a customer that is getting started in target shooting. He was in the range the other day shooting a 300 round. He was getting a bit frustrated. He said he couldn't figure out why he was getting some low shots.

He said, they may not be perfect but they shouldn't be that low in the 4 ring. So I watched him shoot and didn't see anything obvious that should be causing the lows.

I said let's check out a few things on your bow. We put the bow in the hooter shooter and got it to full draw. I noticed the timing was off just a touch. So we started shooting it with the hooter shooter. We pulled arrows after each shot and marked the paper where the arrow landed. This bow would have been breaking arrows like crazy.

So I said, let's check the creep tune. Well, we found a problem. When hard into the wall, the arrows would drop low. If you were really hard into the wall, it would drop 2+ inches. This was not good an should be corrected.

So off to the bow press I go. I put one twist in the buss cable and repeated the test. Bingo we got all the arrows in the same group.

So don't let anyone tell you it's not important to thoroughly test your target bows. You want your target bow to be setup as forgiving as possible.

I purposely left the brand of bow off because I don't really think that is important here. But if you have any sort of 2 cam system and are serious about spot shooting, creep tune it!

I would just like to find a bow shop in my area that actually knew how to tune a bow. How far are you from Chicago Chris? I would like to bring my bows up and let you go thru them sometime....:D

Wish I had a hooter shooter.

Bullfiddle...From Chicago 90+ miles NW of Chicago.

Bunnyman... I attempted to creep tune my Apex7... found it not necessary. In fact, I don't know how you would creep tune a single cam.

I couldn't believe how little the impact point changed. I shot the bow 1/4" short of the valley and 1/4" past the valley (I don't think I could physically hold it there) Anyway, it changed the impact point 1/2 the width of an arrow.:peace:

Needless to say, I was impressed with the Apex7

Wish I had a hooter shooter.

You can use the one I use.(Brian) lol

Bullfiddle...From Chicago 90+ miles NW of Chicago.

Bunnyman... I attempted to creep tune my Apex7... found it not necessary. In fact, I don't know how you would creep tune a single cam.

I couldn't believe how little the impact point changed. I shot the bow 1/4" short of the valley and 1/4" past the valley (I don't think I could physically hold it there) Anyway, it changed the impact point 1/2 the width of an arrow.:peace:

Needless to say, I was impressed with the Apex7

thats what I thought I remember you saying, but wanted to make sure....

Oh, I get it now..... I thought "Creep tuning" was if I let Bunnyman tune my bow.....:laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

Oh, I get it now..... I thought "Creep tuning" was if I let Bunnyman tune my bow.....:laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

Good one!!!! :pound: :pound: :thumb: :thumb:

Good one!!!! :pound: :pound: :thumb: :thumb:

Hey JC,

I could not let that one slide, it was causing physical pain to not type.

You can't creep tune a single cam bow. However, you can often get some good results by tiller tuning it.

You can't creep tune a single cam bow. However, you can often get some good results by tiller tuning it.

Does this involve a sailboat?

:laugh:

Sorry.....

Does this involve a sailboat?

:laugh:

Sorry.....

I'v gravel tuned a bow...but I ain't never thrown one down in the garden and tiller tuned it......:peace:

I prefer hammer tuning.

I have a customer that is getting started in target shooting. He was in the range the other day shooting a 300 round. He was getting a bit frustrated. He said he couldn't figure out why he was getting some low shots.

He said, they may not be perfect but they shouldn't be that low in the 4 ring. So I watched him shoot and didn't see anything obvious that should be causing the lows.

I said let's check out a few things on your bow. We put the bow in the hooter shooter and got it to full draw. I noticed the timing was off just a touch. So we started shooting it with the hooter shooter. We pulled arrows after each shot and marked the paper where the arrow landed. This bow would have been breaking arrows like crazy.

So I said, let's check the creep tune. Well, we found a problem. When hard into the wall, the arrows would drop low. If you were really hard into the wall, it would drop 2+ inches. This was not good an should be corrected.

So off to the bow press I go. I put one twist in the buss cable and repeated the test. Bingo we got all the arrows in the same group.

So don't let anyone tell you it's not important to thoroughly test your target bows. You want your target bow to be setup as forgiving as possible.

I purposely left the brand of bow off because I don't really think that is important here. But if you have any sort of 2 cam system and are serious about spot shooting, creep tune it!

For me, I like the top cam stop hitting just a tick before the bottom cam stop. It takes the highs and lows out of the shot and is more forgiving that way.

I'v gravel tuned a bow...but I ain't never thrown one down in the garden and tiller tuned it......:peace:

now that's funny:laugh:
I just measured tha strings
buss cable are42.5 string is 56.5 if I got a good measurement.
do these sound right.

While it may not be necessary in the end to try creep tuning your single, I thinks it's worth finding out if the cam and nockpoint have a sweet-spot. Don't know if you'd call it creep tuning or not but a half twist or 2 in both dirrections on the buss cable just to see is worth while. It could be also that some cam designs are just a little more forgiving than others. I know my Icon is more sensitive to creep than the minimax on the Rival Pro. It sure don't hurt to find out.

While it may not be necessary in the end to try creep tuning your single, I thinks it's worth finding out if the cam and nockpoint have a sweet-spot. Don't know if you'd call it creep tuning or not but a half twist or 2 in both dirrections on the buss cable just to see is worth while. It could be also that some cam designs are just a little more forgiving than others. I know my Icon is more sensitive to creep than the minimax on the Rival Pro. It sure don't hurt to find out.

I wouldn't really call this creep tuning but I understand what you are getting at. Adjusting the cable here will make minor changes to your nocking point, draw weight and will slightly change the cam rotation.

http://archersadvantage.com/TipSheets/TillerTuning.htm

I've never tried to tiller tune a parallel limb bow. I wonder how it would react to this?

I think creep tuning isnt as important on a single cam with a solid draw stop like a peg that hits limb. it is harder to orver or under draw when there is a rock solid stop, (Still possible, just at smaller levels)

But with a draw stop that is more flexble like a peg or mod on a cable, it is more noticable. I know I have creep tuned a few single cam ARs, and Jennings that if the cam wasnt rotated to the sweet spot before drawing, the force you put on the back wall greatly effected high or low shots.

All bows will benifit from creep tuning, and if anything, the process of creep tuning will help you to recognize, and avoid a creeped shot.

JIM

I've never tried to tiller tune a parallel limb bow. I wonder how it would react to this?

I had good results with my Icon. It's not the most parallel bow out there, but it gave me results as good as I got with a Scepter 2.

IMO tiller tuning is more about fine tuning the draw length. Obviously this is more about the shooter than about the bow.

Jim, did you use the same proceedure for creep tuning the single cam as for the two cam bows? How did you make the adjustments to the cam rotation? I've often wondered if this could be done, but never experimented with it.

Thanks,
Allen

I played with buss, and string twists, rotating the cam back and forth while watching my ATA and DL to make sure I kept it in spec.

It seems like if your ATA, BH, And DL are right, your cam should be set, but all cams should be rotated to thier sweet spot. Advancing or retarding cam rotation could result in mor or less speed, less or more vibration, or more loose or tighter groups.

I have always creep tuned all my bows, and it even though it seems like the true benifits in creep tuning is to check time and sync on hybrid, and dual cam bows... There is a factory setting for single cam bows, and all cams are designed to rotate from one point to the next.

JIM
I had good results with my Icon. It's not the most parallel bow out there, but it gave me results as good as I got with a Scepter 2.

IMO tiller tuning is more about fine tuning the draw length. Obviously this is more about the shooter than about the bow.

Jim, did you use the same proceedure for creep tuning the single cam as for the two cam bows? How did you make the adjustments to the cam rotation? I've often wondered if this could be done, but never experimented with it.

Thanks,
Allen

Thanks Jim,

I'll give it a try.

Allen

I played with buss, and string twists, rotating the cam back and forth while watching my ATA and DL to make sure I kept it in spec.

It seems like if your ATA, BH, And DL are right, your cam should be set, but all cams should be rotated to thier sweet spot. Advancing or retarding cam rotation could result in mor or less speed, less or more vibration, or more loose or tighter groups.

I have always creep tuned all my bows, and it even though it seems like the true benifits in creep tuning is to check time and sync on hybrid, and dual cam bows... There is a factory setting for single cam bows, and all cams are designed to rotate from one point to the next.

JIM



Very true... I'm a firm believer in creep tuning. Especially on new bows or bows with newly installed strings. Going through the check list; brace, tiller, timming ect. is a must...