Well, here is the image... Elite dealers are put on notice...

whyd they coppie dartin?

whyd they coppie dartin?

Because the letter came from a lawfirm who represents Darton and not directly from Darton.

that sucks for the distributors, they have nothing to do with the manufacturing end of it:noidea:

that sucks for the distributors, they have nothing to do with the manufacturing end of it:noidea:

It also means that all the bows they have purchased setting on the shelfs could possibly be siezed and they will just be out the money they paid for them. We went thru that with some equipment we bought at work. Guess what ya can't sue the manufacturer either because by the time they sieze them the manufacturer has filed bankruptcy and is defunct. I feel for the guys that have these setting on their shelfs.

so what do the costumer's do? since the line is discontinued? does that mean if it breaks they cant get there money back?

so the manufature can make them anymore. but if a store got them and paid the manufature before the was brought up can the store still sell them or do they have to pull them?

I think it means your SOL:noidea: Cause if they fix it they are fixing a bow with a patent infringement on it they are still releaseing said patent infringed product.:doh: (it made more sense in my head)

I think it means your SOL:noidea: Cause if they fix it they are fixing a bow with a patent infringement on it they are still releaseing said patent infringed product.:doh: (it made more sense in my head)

It makes sense to me......:noidea:

so we must think a like......

WOW..... That stinks for all involved..... From Darton, Elite to the Proshops down to the customers....

That sucks for the proshops. They paid money for these bows and arent allowed to sell them or they could be sued.

rick

Puke, :tape: :tape: :tape:

YADA YADA YADA. Another year and another lawsuit. The suit will be contested by Elite and will sit in court for the near future. End result \if Elite is found guilty they will be told to stop producing these bows. By this time the '09 bows will be out and they will change whatever the problem is. Just like what happened 2 years ago with Bowtech. I am still gonna buy the new Exterme XL in a few weeks.

YADA YADA YADA. Another year and another lawsuit. The suit will be contested by Elite and will sit in court for the near future. End result \if Elite is found guilty they will be told to stop producing these bows. By this time the '09 bows will be out and they will change whatever the problem is. Just like what happened 2 years ago with Bowtech. I am still gonna buy the new Exterme XL in a few weeks.

Good luck with that...:laugh: :laugh:

YADA YADA YADA. Another year and another lawsuit. The suit will be contested by Elite and will sit in court for the near future. End result \if Elite is found guilty they will be told to stop producing these bows. By this time the '09 bows will be out and they will change whatever the problem is. Just like what happened 2 years ago with Bowtech. I am still gonna buy the new Exterme XL in a few weeks.

Why?????????? When you could buy a good bow from a company that does not infringe on patents.:tape: :laugh: :laugh:

If this letter is indeed legit, I would think Darton is pretty sure of themselves. Otherwise a countersuit will be costly for the lost revenue based on sales lost due this letter. (If that could be proved) If Elite is guilty, they ought to be smacked HARD! This would be what, their 2nd offence? I hope they are not guilty though, their bows look great.

YADA YADA YADA. Another year and another lawsuit. The suit will be contested by Elite and will sit in court for the near future. End result \if Elite is found guilty they will be told to stop producing these bows. By this time the '09 bows will be out and they will change whatever the problem is. Just like what happened 2 years ago with Bowtech. I am still gonna buy the new Exterme XL in a few weeks.

who are you going to buy it from? Unless Elite were able to get something from the courts that allows them and thier distributors to keep selling thier bows until told other wise by the courts, I just don't know many dealers with deep enough pockets that would be willing to take a chance on bucking the system. If I was a distributor with a small shop, I sure as heck would not be willing to sell one till I heard back from Elite. I don't know of many bow shops whos owners have deep enough pockets to take the chance of a law suit. Win or lose, just the cost of going to court over it could be enough to put them out of buisiness. :noidea: JMO

Sounds like Elite did not want to pay the royalty fee. Man, you think they would have learned the first time.:noidea:

I wonder how many Elites will end up on ebay over the next week?

YADA YADA YADA. Another year and another lawsuit. The suit will be contested by Elite and will sit in court for the near future. End result \if Elite is found guilty they will be told to stop producing these bows. By this time the '09 bows will be out and they will change whatever the problem is. Just like what happened 2 years ago with Bowtech. I am still gonna buy the new Exterme XL in a few weeks.

just some facts guys...

1. Yes the letter is legit. I called Darton and they "unoffically" confirmed it, I called elite and they DID confirm it (although not in an overly professional tone, I was not happy with their service btw).

Elite knows about the letter and has instructed their dealers to ignore it and continue selling their bows as usual as if nothing is going on. Based on Elites history I'd guess this is similar to sticking their head in the sand and saying "no one sees us keep doing it".

The last time Elite got slammed like this it resulted in them "merging" (aka bought out) by a company they owed money to. I am still amazed and shocked that they haven't learned to play by the rules yet. This will make 3 years in a row that they have been in court or at least engaged in lawsuits.

Before everyone brings up all the other companies using binary cams... they all have permission to use them.

Sounds like Elite did not want to pay the royalty fee. Man, you think they would have learned the first time.:noidea:

you mean the first 2 times... They got nailed by Bowtech in 06 and then by Darton in 07.

It is one thing to go after Elite as a mfg.

How do you feel about the threat of litigation against the dealers?

Would it be sorta like buying stolen merchandise? :noidea:

you mean the first 2 times... They got nailed by Bowtech in 06 and then by Darton in 07.

Ouch...... Three strikes and your..........

Yay! Y'all understand!:hug: :hug: :hug:

Elite and Darton have both put the mom and pop retailers (the backbone of the archery industry since like the beginning of time) into the middle of ther tinkling match.

The retailers did nothing that I can see to deserve this....and have every right to be furious with both parties.

Yay! Y'all understand!:hug: :hug: :hug:

Elite and Darton have both put the mom and pop retailers (the backbone of the archery industry since like the beginning of time) into the middle of ther tinkling match.

The retailers did nothing that I can see to deserve this....and have every right to be furious with both parties.

Since you are who you are,(govt employee) do you think that going after the dealers will fly?

I mean is it even legal? Not that you are a lawyer.

On another note, how would you feel about a class action suit against Darton for going after you dealers? I would LOOOOOOVE to see that. Might even pay. :D

Since you are who you are,(govt employee) do you think that going after the dealers will fly?

I mean is it even legal? Not that you are a lawyer.

That's a good question, Doc. I do think this creates a lot of different potential angles...

1. Retailers that were considering taking on the Elite line have some new information to analyze.

2. Elite dealers that have bows in stock are now under a lot of pressure...and many of these shops don't have significant resources....hiring an attorney is probably out of the question for most of these shops.

3. I think it is a risky move by Darton, if their market place reputation and retailers are important to them.

4. If Elite was aware of this and did not inform their retailers...and therefore put them in this position...the shame, shame on them.

5. At this point, I don't see how the retailers could possibly be at fault here.:noidea:

6. I doubt the dealers would collectively sue Darton....but they may be interested in going after Elite if they withheld information.

YADA YADA YADA. Another year and another lawsuit. The suit will be contested by Elite and will sit in court for the near future. End result \if Elite is found guilty they will be told to stop producing these bows. By this time the '09 bows will be out and they will change whatever the problem is. Just like what happened 2 years ago with Bowtech. I am still gonna buy the new Exterme XL in a few weeks.

Hey SIN, not even I support everything Mathews does.....and in fact I am the first to jump on them for doing somthing STUPID.......

THIS IS SOMETHING STUPID.........

WHY NOT JUST PAY FOR THE STUFF YOU DIDNT INVENT???
its not like they are not making a HUGE FREAKING AMOUNT OF MONEY ON EACH BOW:frusty:

IF they are trying to stir the pot, consider it stirred........

would hate to see you loose any money you put out towards one........

That's a good question, Doc. I do think this creates a lot of different potential angles...

1. Retailers that were considering taking on the Elite line have some new information to analyze.

2. Elite dealers that have bows in stock are now under a lot of pressure...and many of these shops don't have significant resources....hiring an attorney is probably out of the question for most of these shops.

3. I think it is a risky move by Darton, if their market place reputation and retailers are important to them.

4. If Elite was aware of this and did not inform their retailers...and therefore put them in this position...the shame, shame on them.
5. At this point, I don't see how the retailers could possibly be at fault here.:noidea:

6. I doubt the dealers would collectively sue Darton....but they may be interested in going after Elite if they withheld information.


IE lieing???:noidea:

Well, here is the image... Elite dealers are put on notice...
I think we should let the courts and lawyers wrangle over this. Darton says they are right, Elite says they are right. Just because someone ACCUSES you does not make you guilty. Lets remember, USA, innocent untill PROVEN guilty. Not guilty because you are accused.
Lets let the legal system determine this, then we will know who is correct. Until then, they are innocent of ALL charges.
This is still USA folks, lets be fair.
Thanks
oldbuck

I think we should let the courts and lawyers wrangle over this. Darton says they are right, Elite says they are right. Just because someone ACCUSES you does not make you guilty. Lets remember, USA, innocent untill PROVEN guilty. Not guilty because you are accused.
Lets let the legal system determine this, then we will know who is correct. Until then, they are innocent of ALL charges.
This is still USA folks, lets be fair.
Thanks
oldbuck

so to the dealers that have said bows on thier shelf and stand to loose potentially 1000's......you say just sit back and wait????

listen i dont know about you but if it was me, I would be unloading stuff, like brett farve trying to win that game last sunday.......

so to the dealers that have said bows on thier shelf and stand to loose potentially 1000's......you say just sit back and wait????

listen i dont know about you but if it was me, I would be unloading stuff, like brett farve trying to win that game last sunday.......

I wish I had a dealer by me, Id be there this weekend with cash in hand, Can you say everything must go sale!!!!!!!!!!!!:laugh:

I wish I had a dealer by me, Id be there this weekend with cash in hand, Can you say everything must go sale!!!!!!!!!!!!:laugh:

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

I wish I had a dealer by me, Id be there this weekend with cash in hand, Can you say everything must go sale!!!!!!!!!!!!:laugh:

Can you say MSRP?:D As a dealer, I don't care for what is happening with this issue, but until I get a court order to stop selling Elite bows, I will continue to do so. If Darton decides to sue me, they are out of their mind. The legal fees would be more than what they would get out of my shop. I did not receive the "letter" from Darton, so maybe it is just a select few dealers they are picking on.

Hey SIN, not even I support everything Mathews does.....and in fact I am the first to jump on them for doing somthing STUPID.......

THIS IS SOMETHING STUPID.........

WHY NOT JUST PAY FOR THE STUFF YOU DIDNT INVENT???
its not like they are not making a HUGE FREAKING AMOUNT OF MONEY ON EACH BOW:frusty:

IF they are trying to stir the pot, consider it stirred........

would hate to see you loose any money you put out towards one........



I understand what u are saying but this looks just like the Bowtech suit except about the dealers. They were still able to keep selling the E-500 that year the judgement said they could not resemble the Bowtech anymore or something like that. This topic of infringement has been talked about time and again on here as it relates to the archery world.

Anyone can be paying to have an attorney file litigation against whomever these days, all I was saying was wait for the outcome. If they are doing something wrong then they should pay the price. I just do not think that it's gonna come to that.

From the Elite Forums, a sticky by the forum Admin titled "Regarding Darton's Claim":

Darton did sue Elite Archery for patent infringement in 2007. Rather than spend the time, effort and considerable cost of fighting a patent infringement action on short notice, Elite agreed to discontinue selling the bows it was selling at that time and entered into a Consent Judgment with Darton to this effect. It is Elite’s position that the bows that Elite currently is selling, the Elite Synergy Extreme, Elite Xtreme XL, Elite Fire and Elite GTO Bows, are not covered by the Consent Injunction. In addition, based on research that Elite has done since it was sued by Darton, Elite believes that the patent that Darton asserted against Elite is invalid. If the Darton patent is invalid, the bows being made by Elite cannot infringe this patent. The lawsuit between Darton and Elite is ongoing. Elite is vigorously defending its position and is confident that it ultimately will prevail.

This was a response from Kevin on the forum as well:

One thing that needs to be cleared up, Elite has never been found guilty of violating ANY patent.

The whole BS with BT was not over patents it was over if I had a non- compete, which the judge ruled I did NOT. I am free to design whatever I want, and will continue to design. They will never succeed with their main objective.

I'm sure the people out there that are not walking zombies realize what companies are behind all of this.

We have done extensive research into patents and are very confident that we don't infringe the 970' patent.

This was a response from Kevin on the forum as well:

One thing that needs to be cleared up, Elite has never been found guilty of violating ANY patent.

The whole BS with BT was not over patents it was over if I had a non- compete, which the judge ruled I did NOT. I am free to design whatever I want, and will continue to design. They will never succeed with their main objective.

I'm sure the people out there that are not walking zombies realize what companies are behind all of this.

We have done extensive research into patents and are very confident that we don't infringe the 970' patent.

Would one of them begin with "m"? :wave:

Would one of them begin with "m"? :wave:

Maybe, but the main one he is referring to begins with a b.

I think there are a few important items here that many people may be missing...

1. The only reason Elite hasn't been found guilty is because they keep settling! Its the equivalent of pleading out in a criminal trial. He even made it quite clear that they settled with Darton last year instead of fight it... no one settles if they know they can win, the "considerable time and expense" would be counter sued for and Darton would pay them.

2. I believe he is "correct" (notice the quotes) a Non-Compete clause was thrown out as they are basically illegal anyway, HOWEVER the original purpose of Elite Archery was to sell bow items that would replace stuff on Bowtechs, this idea was squashed and Elite actually had an injunction placed on them concerning what he could design and what he could not for a few months however they never stopped "manufacturing" their bows.

3. Bowtech never sued for the use of the Binary Cam's. They sued Kevin because he specifically violated his contract with Bowtech and designed nearly identical bows to the Bowtech Line for his own company

4. Martin could care less about Elite. The number of bows Elite sales is a joke compared to what Martin or Darton sells. The reason Elite is coming under such fire is due to their horrible business practice of stealing whatever they want without paying for it.

5. J2 Archery (Manufacturers of "Elite Bows") are still liable for patent infringements made by Elite Archery as they purchased the company and all assets.

Personally I would MUCH rather receive a notice from a company advising me of what is coming in the future so that I sell off current inventory and do not advance sell anymore as opposed to finding out after I have 20 orders back logged, the money is already spent and then find out that no bows will be shipping. In 06 this is exactly what happened, Elite couldn't produce bows due to 0 financing and they had already spent the advanced bow order money on back filling what was owed... not a good business model. A lot of people got pissed... but overlooked it due to "brand loyalty".

Ironically Ross Archery launched the same year, has had 0 legal issue, provides a great bow which is almost all licensed from random companies and still manages to keep orders on track, show up at the ATA show... etc (Maybe Elite should take notes?)

** Rumor has it that another Lawsuit is on the way for Elite as well.. and this one won't be settled out of court unless I miss my guess, and the company doing the suing isn't a small fry... and they have investors to report to :bowl:

It makes sense to me......:noidea:

so we must think a like......

scary:dizzy:

I think there are a few important items here that many people may be missing...

1. The only reason Elite hasn't been found guilty is because they keep settling! Its the equivalent of pleading out in a criminal trial. He even made it quite clear that they settled with Darton last year instead of fight it... no one settles if they know they can win, the "considerable time and expense" would be counter sued for and Darton would pay them.

2. I believe he is "correct" (notice the quotes) a Non-Compete clause was thrown out as they are basically illegal anyway, HOWEVER the original purpose of Elite Archery was to sell bow items that would replace stuff on Bowtechs, this idea was squashed and Elite actually had an injunction placed on them concerning what he could design and what he could not for a few months however they never stopped "manufacturing" their bows.

3. Bowtech never sued for the use of the Binary Cam's. They sued Kevin because he specifically violated his contract with Bowtech and designed nearly identical bows to the Bowtech Line for his own company

4. Martin could care less about Elite. The number of bows Elite sales is a joke compared to what Martin or Darton sells. The reason Elite is coming under such fire is due to their horrible business practice of stealing whatever they want without paying for it.

5. J2 Archery (Manufacturers of "Elite Bows") are still liable for patent infringements made by Elite Archery as they purchased the company and all assets.

Personally I would MUCH rather receive a notice from a company advising me of what is coming in the future so that I sell off current inventory and do not advance sell anymore as opposed to finding out after I have 20 orders back logged, the money is already spent and then find out that no bows will be shipping. In 06 this is exactly what happened, Elite couldn't produce bows due to 0 financing and they had already spent the advanced bow order money on back filling what was owed... not a good business model. A lot of people got pissed... but overlooked it due to "brand loyalty".

Ironically Ross Archery launched the same year, has had 0 legal issue, provides a great bow which is almost all licensed from random companies and still manages to keep orders on track, show up at the ATA show... etc (Maybe Elite should take notes?)

** Rumor has it that another Lawsuit is on the way for Elite as well.. and this one won't be settled out of court unless I miss my guess, and the company doing the suing isn't a small fry... and they have investors to report to :bowl:


So what you're saying is you are gonna be really pissed at Limerick this year when you lose to the Elite?

So what you're saying is you are gonna be really pissed at Limerick this year when you lose to the Elite?

allthough I think the comment in itself is pretty funny........throwing Limerick's name in there wasnt needed:peace:

Martin could care less about Elite.

I have to disagree with you there. Martin may not be scared of Elites bow sales, but as you know things are VERY personal between them and I think Terry Martin would like nothing better than to see KS wiped off of the archery horizon.

Think about it. His ex wife, ex daughter in law, (former martin girl btw) and KS using Terry's site to launch a new archery company? To compete with Martin?

Maybe I'm way off. But I don't think so.

I have an ex myself and know how bitter things can get.:whistle:

So what you're saying is you are gonna be really pissed at Limerick this year when you lose to the Elite?

The course wasn't set up for Lefties!

Oh wait... I should wait until the shoot to start making excuses shouldn't I? :tape:

The course wasn't set up for Lefties!

Oh wait... I should wait until the shoot to start making excuses shouldn't I? :tape:

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

The course wasn't set up for Lefties!

Oh wait... I should wait until the shoot to start making excuses shouldn't I? :tape:

Don't forget those "gusts of wind" :peace:

Don't forget those "gusts of wind" :peace:

EXACTLY:mad: :mad: :mad: :mad:

This thread over at AT 'shook up the world'! Gotta love a good circus...:lol:

..its appears there were quite a few deleted posts and bans. Long story short..dont cross swords with Martin over there.:tape:

I predict this site to see a big spike in new members and user activity.:usa:

:peace:

This thread over at AT 'shook up the world'! Gotta love a good circus...:lol:

..its appears there were quite a few deleted posts and bans. Long story short..dont cross swords with Martin over there.:tape:

I predict this site to see a big spike in new members and user activity.:usa:

:peace:

did you get banned over there?.........:noidea:

This thread over at AT 'shook up the world'! Gotta love a good circus...:lol:

..its appears there were quite a few deleted posts and bans. Long story short..dont cross swords with Martin over there.:tape:

I predict this site to see a big spike in new members and user activity.:usa:

:peace:

I didn't get banned and I think 1/2 the posts in that thread were mine :rockon:

did you get banned over there?.........:noidea:

Kinda but not really... Most the mods there worship me. However, there is one mod that is putting up a pretty good chase and has yet to be seduced by my charm. :p He's simply fighting the urge...:decision: If I could only steal his sheep away....:hug:

I didn't get banned and I think 1/2 the posts in that thread were mine :rockon:

I had a few as well...and I even mentioned Slippy in one post and nobody banned me :noidea:

And Cordwood...stop humping the laser. you and the laser need to get a frickin room!

And Cordwood...stop humping the laser. you and the laser need to get a frickin room!

I like humpin the laser. ...who wouldnt?:noidea:

Glad you guys were sparred the axe...I dont have a list well yes I do. L-train, archer1983, elite####, ...i had a list but cant seem to find it the messages. The same thread in the BH section is going much smoother and a mod makes reference to the bannings/deletions.

..anyhow, glad minime has been sparred the axe as well. He was banished and replaced by a sheep at AT.:lol: So far seems this site is more tolerant of shenanigans/fun...we'll see. :rockon:

I like humpin the laser. ...who wouldnt?:noidea:

Glad you guys were sparred the axe...I dont have a list well yes I do. L-train, archer1983, elite####, ...i had a list but cant seem to find it the messages. The same thread in the BH section is going much smoother and a mod makes reference to the bannings/deletions.

..anyhow, glad minime has been sparred the axe as well. He was banished and replaced by a sheep at AT.:lol: So far seems this site is more tolerant of shenanigans/fun...we'll see. :rockon:

:noidea: :noidea: :noidea: :noidea:

I didn't get banned and I think 1/2 the posts in that thread were mine :rockon:

From the Elite forum...maybe you will see some old friends there. It wont say banned under there name in the thread, but they're goners.
http://www.elitearchery.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1801

I take it you didnt argue against Martin in any way...:noidea:

I wonder if Joelc will get banned for that disgusting remark he made? :tape:

I've got the screen shot but it's too big to post. :frusty:

Well, here is the image... Elite dealers are put on notice...
The court case was filed in November, as soon as they posted there first new bow for 08 on there web site. This isn't new It's just coming to public knowledge.

I got banned from AT (by RK) in november for bringing this law suite to light. I even gave the link for the court papers. RK said it was thread crapping and banned me for life. The Thread I posted it on was the one were RK was thinking about becoming a Elite dealer. I was just giving him a heads up But he banned me! I wasn't derogitory and I didn't cuss. Just stated the facts.

From the Elite forum...maybe you will see some old friends there. It wont say banned under there name in the thread, but they're goners.
http://www.elitearchery.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1801

I take it you didnt argue against Martin in any way...:noidea:

I'm pretty confident that I would get banned fairly quickly if I registered at that forum...

No I didn't get banned, its easy to avoid getting banned... Don't be stupid... thats about it. Personal attacks will typically get you banned fairly quickly.

I have no reason to bash Martin but I do throw out jabs every once in a while :). I don't know of anyone that got banned for bashing a bow company until they made it personal

I wonder if Joelc will get banned for that disgusting remark he made? :tape:

I've got the screen shot but it's too big to post. :frusty:

you mean the your sister comment where he said "I've heard thats not all she likes"?

personally I was more disgusted by the plumber comments but... (pun intended :D )