I have been using an EVO+ for over a month now, and the NUMBER 1 thing I notice when using it is that my release arm is not parralel to the ground. My elbow is higher, and when I pull to get your release to go off, I am in essence, pulling the string up, making the pin dive. It is subtle, but I can feel that my arm is pulling the D-loop up, and my bow arm drops. I place the gap between my index and middle finger on my jaw bone, directly under my ear...I have tried to lower my hand, but all that happens is the angle of my wrist changes, but the elbow stays the same height! How do I get my elbow lower, so I can pull parrallel with my target line? I'm so flustered. Every day I practice, and I'm not gaining any ground...I feel that my problem is that I'm not pulling parralel to my target line because of my elbow, and it makes all my practice worthless...I need help!

Wrist Straphttp://photos-e.ak.facebook.com/photos-ak-sf2p/v297/63/102/63908740/n63908740_34421180_4532.jpg

Evo+
http://photos-e.ak.facebook.com/photos-ak-snc1/v315/63/102/63908740/n63908740_34621204_3730.jpg

Please help me...this is so frusterating...

Is your target sitting on the ground? It looks to me like your shooting down hill in both photo's....:noidea: If your pulling in an upward direction on your release to get it to fire your shooting it wrong. Try squeezing your shoulder blades together in a push and pull method. Hold your arms up without a bow or a release in your hand and squeeze your shoulder blades together and look at what your arms are doing...:peace:

Is your target sitting on the ground? It looks to me like your shooting down hill in both photo's....:noidea: If your pulling in an upward direction on your release to get it to fire your shooting it wrong. Try squeezing your shoulder blades together in a push and pull method. Hold your arms up without a bow or a release in your hand and squeeze your shoulder blades together and look at what your arms are doing...:peace:

Yes, I am shooting at something at the ground, but the angle I would be more concerned with is that my arm isn't parralel to the arrow...because they aren't, when I pull with my hand backwards, because my elbow is higher..it makes my hand go up, forcing the bow down....

The way I shoot it is that I hold the bow out, mount into my anchor...and then I pull backwards until it fires...

If this is wrong and I'm supposed to be doing something different...is it okay that my elbow is high? Ever good archery I've ever seen has a parrelel arm to the arrow...what am I doing wrong?

Yes, I am shooting at something at the ground, but the angle I would be more concerned with is that my arm isn't parralel to the arrow...because they aren't, when I pull with my hand backwards, because my elbow is higher..it makes my hand go up, forcing the bow down....

The way I shoot it is that I hold the bow out, mount into my anchor...and then I pull backwards until it fires...

If this is wrong and I'm supposed to be doing something different...is it okay that my elbow is high? Ever good archery I've ever seen has a parrelel arm to the arrow...what am I doing wrong?

If your shooting downhill your elbow is going to point up...:noidea: If you level that bow out and take another picture I think you will see a difference in your form....:wave: :wave:

One thing you might try it to lengthen the draw length on your bows. It's unusual to see, but you look like you are a little too short.

General rule for someone with fairly well developed form like you, is for the nock of the arrow to be directly below you eye at full draw. It appears in both photos that you are a little in front of that line.

In the photo with your target bow, your bow arm is bent a little to reach your anchor point. In the one with your hunting bow you look like you are leaning your head forward to reach your anchor.

If you don't want to change your bows, you can test it by tying on a longer loop. Start with a loop about 2 inches long and gradually shorten it until you get the elbow position that you want.

One caution, don't try to hard to be just like someone else, no matter how good they shoot. Find the form that's best for you.

One other thing, pay attention to your bow hand. It's different in the two photos. Either may work and be torque free, but it's probably better to have a consistent hand position on both bows.

Hope this helps,
Allen

Is there any chance that you could also use the same bow while demonstrating both releases, I noticed the 2 different bows

There’s a good chance that the wrist strap release allows you release arm to rotate back a little farther. And the Evo being a little tighter as far as jaw position doesn’t allow your releases arm to rotate that small fraction farther back

Example would be possibly from the bow string at the nock to the tip of your elbow could be a tad shorter when using the Evo.

Just a thought at this point yet

For the first question on the bows....the hunting bow is a 29" and the Target bow is a 28". It makes no difference what release I use, the elbow is still high. If you look, I'm not even bending at the waist for the downward shot, because my elbow is already so high, if I bent, it would make it so my arm would be parralel to about 10 yards infront of me. I have been practicing all month, and all night now trying different things, and I feel that when I start pulling, my pin immediately dives, not alot, but enough to take me off target. This indicates to me that I'm not pulling inline to the target.

As far as the BT goes...I have been going for over a month now, and without a coach, I feel like I have no clue what I'm supposed to be doing. Everyone keeps telling me to put my shoulder blades together...I can think of a million ways to do that. I can make my elbow move horizontally (parralel to the ground), I can push my bow hand left, and pull my release hand backwards, I can just push straight out and pull straight back...which is right? I need someone that knows what they're talking about to live in MN, so they can show me, and tell me when I am doing something right...I'm so discouraged. I practice every day for about 2-3 hours...and I'm not improving at all. I don't have any target panic, I steady on the X, I begin to pull backwards, the pin drops...then I pull the bow back up with my bow hand and apply more pressure backwards with my release hand, thus causing the pin to drop again..and I teter-toter back and forth until it goes off.

The combo of it just not feeling right and not knowing what I'm supposed to be feeling for BT is just getting very frusterating. I have tried to go back to the wrist release with the target bow, but I like the fact that I can anchor on my jawbone with the EVO...and as bad as I am with the Evo...I actually hit within 1" of X every time...it is just unpredictable where...where as the wrist release, I punch it, and sometimes it is dead on, and other times it misses by a good 2-3"...so it is a love/hate relationship. I don't know if I should go to a thumb release...or a true BT...or get a coach and have him/her teach me what I'm supposed to be doing...

or get a coach and have him/her teach me what I'm supposed to be doing...

While I know very little about "modern" archery, being a long-bow person myself, I would have to say that is probably the best money you can spend, possibly even before the purchase of a bow.

I have found in nearly every pursuit in my life, having a qualified person there to mentor me has saved me immense frustration and accelerated my learning. And also saving me much heartache trying to unlearn bad habits I formed from trying to figure it our myself. This is why I'm not letting my wife and daughters' touch their "new" bows until we find a a good coach.

Just got one simple suggestion - it appears from the pix that your anchor point is a bit high with the noch even with your lips - lower your anchor down to your jaw bone and see if that helps.

When shooting the Evo, I find I can get a consistent anchor by having the very back of my jaw bone between my index and middle finger knuckles.

If that works for you, about the only thing you will have to change on the bow, other than new marks, will be the height of your peep.

HTH

Looks like you have a deep tight grip on the Evo+

Maybe try to loosen you grip a little and grab your release a little farther out towards your finger tips.

First off at times it can be hard to pick things apart and give the proper advice over the web, but good advice can help in this fashion and sometimes it takes a little longer to understand so don’t give up!

With the bow, looks like a Apex 7 in the pic. And your Evo.

If you are bobbing on and off as you apply your pressure I would have to guess that your Evo is set to light, crank the spring in 3 or 4 turns if possible or change to a heavier spring.
Your Mind and body may be anticipating the release going off if you’re set to light.
Try having the Evo breaking at 8lbs over what your hold weight is (the amount of draw weight on a scale when at full draw) so if you’re holding 12 lbs of draw weight when aiming and have the Evo fire at 20lbs.
This will eliminate the anticipation, which could be causing you to get weak in your shot. Getting weak in a shot causes some of the issues that you are experiencing.
This will also allow you and train yourself to be able to truly use your back for steadying the bow as well as having a true sense of firing a bow with your back muscles.

I offered you this once before and I will again you are only 3 hours give or take away it’s up to you.
A lot of my students have done well – locally, State, National and at a World level, they shot the bow I was just there to guide them in the right direction

For the first question on the bows....the hunting bow is a 29" and the Target bow is a 28". It makes no difference what release I use, the elbow is still high. If you look, I'm not even bending at the waist for the downward shot, because my elbow is already so high, if I bent, it would make it so my arm would be parralel to about 10 yards infront of me. I have been practicing all month, and all night now trying different things, and I feel that when I start pulling, my pin immediately dives, not alot, but enough to take me off target. This indicates to me that I'm not pulling inline to the target.

As far as the BT goes...I have been going for over a month now, and without a coach, I feel like I have no clue what I'm supposed to be doing. Everyone keeps telling me to put my shoulder blades together...I can think of a million ways to do that. I can make my elbow move horizontally (parralel to the ground), I can push my bow hand left, and pull my release hand backwards, I can just push straight out and pull straight back...which is right? I need someone that knows what they're talking about to live in MN, so they can show me, and tell me when I am doing something right...I'm so discouraged. I practice every day for about 2-3 hours...and I'm not improving at all. I don't have any target panic, I steady on the X, I begin to pull backwards, the pin drops...then I pull the bow back up with my bow hand and apply more pressure backwards with my release hand, thus causing the pin to drop again..and I teter-toter back and forth until it goes off.

The combo of it just not feeling right and not knowing what I'm supposed to be feeling for BT is just getting very frusterating. I have tried to go back to the wrist release with the target bow, but I like the fact that I can anchor on my jawbone with the EVO...and as bad as I am with the Evo...I actually hit within 1" of X every time...it is just unpredictable where...where as the wrist release, I punch it, and sometimes it is dead on, and other times it misses by a good 2-3"...so it is a love/hate relationship. I don't know if I should go to a thumb release...or a true BT...or get a coach and have him/her teach me what I'm supposed to be doing...

You should give JDX a try with some one on one instruction. This just to complicated to give advice on web.I can think of at least a dozen things wrong but would need to see you in person to evaluate.
Dean

You should give JDX a try with some one on one instruction. This just to complicated to give advice on web.I can think of at least a dozen things wrong but would need to see you in person to evaluate.
Dean

Exactly why I don't offer form advice on the net.. too many small things can be missed and large things misunderstood.