I bought a new Martin Sabre Se last week and i had it outfitted with a whisker biscuit qs which i had on my previous martin and loved, however after shooting my new toy several hundred times i realized my patterns were getting worse not better and realized that my rest was loosening up due to the vibration from my bow. An easy fix, i thought, but simply tightening the screw moved the whole arrangement, i adjusted the rest accordingly, and now am shooting tighter groups than ever however my arrows hit what i aim at but they don't seem to be flying straight. What i mean is that i'm almost positive that it would fail a paper test and i know how to conduct one but what do i do to correct the flight? Should i just stop whining and be glad i'm hitting what i'm aiming at, Or should i correct it? Any suggestions will be appreciated, thanks.

Welcome to the forum coyotekilla20. Glad to have you with us. I love my WB I'm getting bullet holes in paper and hitting my spots.:biggrin1: You should be able to get that puppy paper tuned and hitting its mark. But, if its shooting good then just stick with it. If it ain't broke then don't fix it.:rockon: That rest if the best hunting rest on the market hands down.:peace:

I bought a new Martin Sabre Se last week and i had it outfitted with a whisker biscuit qs which i had on my previous martin and loved, however after shooting my new toy several hundred times i realized my patterns were getting worse not better and realized that my rest was loosening up due to the vibration from my bow. An easy fix, i thought, but simply tightening the screw moved the whole arrangement, i adjusted the rest accordingly, and now am shooting tighter groups than ever however my arrows hit what i aim at but they don't seem to be flying straight. What i mean is that i'm almost positive that it would fail a paper test and i know how to conduct one but what do i do to correct the flight? Should i just stop whining and be glad i'm hitting what i'm aiming at, Or should i correct it? Any suggestions will be appreciated, thanks.

Sounds to me like your arrows aren't spined correctly for your bow, assuming you have recheked to make sure everything is lined up correctly as far as nock point and rest.

Keep in mind also you arrow will bend and flex when you release it, but it should still fly relatively straight. if it is hittingthe target at an angle then there is something wrong.

I agree it could be the spine on the arrows that you are using. I would recommend a paper tune, just to see. Also sometimes your mind can play tricks on you, while it may look like a wobbly arrow it could just be the different color vanes rotating down range. Just a few things to thing about.:noidea:

paper tuning is over rated :)

paper tuning is over rated :)

Can't leave us hanging like that and not to hi-jack this thread, but why would you make a statement like that? Why do you feel that it's over rated? Is there a better way to tune?--- just a few questions b/c if there is a better way to tune my bow, I would like to know.

Can't leave us hanging like that and not to hi-jack this thread, but why would you make a statement like that? Why do you feel that it's over rated? Is there a better way to tune?--- just a few questions b/c if there is a better way to tune my bow, I would like to know.

Personally I never really saw a huge advantage to paper tuning. I've seen way to many bows that shoot perfectly, accurate well out pass 50 yards that have off tears on the paper tuning racks.

Everything can effect paper tunning dramatically, all the way down to what type of tip you use, the amount of glue on the arrows, the release used, the shooter, string stretch, wax or anything on the sting... Basically to me unless you are a professional archer shooting 90 meter targets and the bow is perfectly setup it is useless. Paper tuning also does nothing concerning FOC, how broadheads fly, etc.

This guy is using a whisker biscuit, which is a great rest btw: but if the bristles flatten even a little bit, the veins get wavey, you replace a vein, or get replacement tips that are not the same shape as the ones previously used then you have to re paper tune.

As for what else can be done instead of paper tuning... i perfer to shoot tune my bows. If I'm shooting a 1/2 inch group at 20 yards, a 1 inch group at 30 yards and a 1 1/2 - 2 inch group at 40 yards then I know that the bow is tuned perfectly. :)

Personally I never really saw a huge advantage to paper tuning. I've seen way to many bows that shoot perfectly, accurate well out pass 50 yards that have off tears on the paper tuning racks.

Everything can effect paper tunning dramatically, all the way down to what type of tip you use, the amount of glue on the arrows, the release used, the shooter, string stretch, wax or anything on the sting... Basically to me unless you are a professional archer shooting 90 meter targets and the bow is perfectly setup it is useless. Paper tuning also does nothing concerning FOC, how broadheads fly, etc.

This guy is using a whisker biscuit, which is a great rest btw: but if the bristles flatten even a little bit, the veins get wavey, you replace a vein, or get replacement tips that are not the same shape as the ones previously used then you have to re paper tune.

As for what else can be done instead of paper tuning... i perfer to shoot tune my bows. If I'm shooting a 1/2 inch group at 20 yards, a 1 inch group at 30 yards and a 1 1/2 - 2 inch group at 40 yards then I know that the bow is tuned perfectly. :)

Point, well made... I know plenty of guys that feel the same way. I was just curious on the reasoning behind it. But I am still not sold and will stick to paper tuning as my first choice.

Point, well made... I know plenty of guys that feel the same way. I was just curious on the reasoning behind it. But I am still not sold and will stick to paper tuning as my first choice.

to me paper tuning is like Bore Sighting a rifle... it will get you in the right ball park but your still going to have to make adjustments.

Personally I'd rather just shoot a 3 shot group and adjust accordingly :)

ive never paper tuned my bow why mess with it if u hit where u aim and ur arrow isnt sticking outta the target crooked

Paper tuning will get you on course for good arrow flight, but to fine tune your arrow flight you should try walkback tuning. It is very simple to do, you should do it with a minimum of 3 arrows, 5 will work better, it will show your pattern alot better.


1. Hang a weighted string from the top of your target and place a point of reference towards the top of the string (i.e. stick on dot or something to that sort of nature.)

2. Stand at 20 yards and aim at that point and note the impact of your arrow, is it grouping straight on the dot.

3. Next, step back to 30 yds and use your 20 yd pin at this distance and aim at the spot. Note how your arrows are grouping.

4. Go to 40 yds and shoot your 20 yd pin at this distance, note your grouping, and how the arrows are aligned with the vertical string.

5. If your arrows are grouping at an angle, meaning going from 1 oclock to 7 oclock or 11 oclock to 5 oclock, then your arrow rest needs to be adjusted the opposite way of the angle. Angling right to left, move rest to the right and vise versa. You want your tuning to be in a straight vertical plane mirroring your string.

6. When you achieve this then you can simply adjust your windage if your point of impact is now left or right.


Hope this helps your out, it helped me out alot. If you need anymore hints on this PM me.

Paper tuning will get you on course for good arrow flight, but to fine tune your arrow flight you should try walkback tuning. It is very simple to do, you should do it with a minimum of 3 arrows, 5 will work better, it will show your pattern alot better.


1. Hang a weighted string from the top of your target and place a point of reference towards the top of the string (i.e. stick on dot or something to that sort of nature.)

2. Stand at 20 yards and aim at that point and note the impact of your arrow, is it grouping straight on the dot.

3. Next, step back to 30 yds and use your 20 yd pin at this distance and aim at the spot. Note how your arrows are grouping.

4. Go to 40 yds and shoot your 20 yd pin at this distance, note your grouping, and how the arrows are aligned with the vertical string.

5. If your arrows are grouping at an angle, meaning going from 1 oclock to 7 oclock or 11 oclock to 5 oclock, then your arrow rest needs to be adjusted the opposite way of the angle. Angling right to left, move rest to the right and vise versa. You want your tuning to be in a straight vertical plane mirroring your string.

6. When you achieve this then you can simply adjust your windage if your point of impact is now left or right.


Hope this helps your out, it helped me out alot. If you need anymore hints on this PM me.

Excellent description of how to walk tune your bow. And pay attention to the adjustments... i always screw mine up and have to redo it :doh:

Hey Chris I was wondering if there was anyway to maybe add a section for technical info and things......someplace were we could go to quickly pull up info like this (incase it slips or mind) and maybe be like printer frendly or something for those of us who dont shoot at home and have to go to our shooting places???? It would be great to click print and take the sheet along.....


The idea is to not have to dig thru old threads to find technical info...some of us know this stuff in our heads and some of us dont, I think this would be great for those who dont.....

Great idea Bowman. :rockon:

Now I just hope Chris sees the post......:doh:

Now I just hope Chris sees the post......:doh:

I saw it. I'm working on some ideas to handle what you want. Don't want to let the cat out of the bag just yet.

I saw it. I'm working on some ideas to handle what you want. Don't want to let the cat out of the bag just yet.

Chris sees ALL!!!

Thanks alot for all of the positive ideas and pointers as for the spined arrows i am shooting gold tip expedition hunter carbons, i wish i could say more but i'm out to try out the vertical string test, thanks again

Personally I would get rid of the WB. There are far superior rests out these days.

Was useing a flip rest, & was slapping them together out to 60yrds.

Now I'm lucky with this new whiskerbiscut qs to keep a 12inch group at 40yrds.

I had it, why did i want & try to make it better.
Ding D(&^&^&) gol dogit!:doh:

Was useing a flip rest, & was slapping them together out to 60yrds.

Now I'm lucky with this new whiskerbiscut qs to keep a 12inch group at 40yrds.

I had it, why did i want & try to make it better.
Ding D(&^&^&) gol dogit!:doh:


100% guarnteed USER ERROR! This is blantalty not true and if it is true then you just need to adjust the biscuit, the exact same way you would adjust any other rest.

I have shot every version of the WB ever released and have had nothing but great things to say about them and I highly recommend them to all my friends that shoot. In fact all my friends SHOOT WB's because I let them shoot mine on their bow.

It is the best hunting rest hands down.

Ok but the problem here is I beleive his bow does not have enough center shot area on the riser shelf and as the arrow leaves the bisquit, the fletching are hammering the riser........

Ok but the problem here is I beleive his bow does not have enough center shot area on the riser shelf and as the arrow leaves the bisquit, the fletching are hammering the riser........

he would run into the same issue with any other rest as well then, not just a biscuit. Also you can move the biscuit back away from the shelf a pretty good distance if that was the issue, it goes back to tuning it.

I have no problem with people saying they don't like it for reasons that are valid but if your going to come on and say your shooting less then 1/2 inch groups at 60 yards and now your shooting 12 inch groups at 40 yards you better be able to give some details.

The problem in our comunication here is that not everone knows or understands why something does what it does they only know that before this happened they were getting these results and now the results have drasticly changed, I cant find fault there. You have to be patient mighty grasshopper......just kidding about the grasshopper thing.....:laugh:

I work in the world of chain saws and do you know how hard it is to convince people that they need to shake there gas cans.......and that even thirty seconds of running time w/straight gas and your $500 tool is no good anymore.....

i like my whisker biscuit, i am definately no authority on shooting a bow, but i love the simplicity of the biscuit, the only thing i have heard negative from people who own them is wrinkled fletchings, i don't have that problem. i have not been shooting great, but it's not my rest, it's a new bow and lack of practice since last season.

i like my whisker biscuit, i am definately no authority on shooting a bow, but i love the simplicity of the biscuit, the only thing i have heard negative from people who own them is wrinkled fletchings, i don't have that problem. i have not been shooting great, but it's not my rest, it's a new bow and lack of practice since last season.

Glad its working for you! Dont' worry to much about the wrinkled fletching, they still fly the exact same :)

PS: why do you have to shake the gas can? :noidea:

Glad its working for you! Dont' worry to much about the wrinkled fletching, they still fly the exact same :)

PS: why do you have to shake the gas can? :noidea:


No wrinkled blazers here:rockon:

Shake the can to mix gas and oil well.

Good answer frank....to make sure the two-cycle is two-cycle and not one- cycle:laugh: