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  1. #1

    Default Hunting clubs and QDMA, frustrating.

    I belong to a hunting club and we had our usual monthly meeting last night. I brought up that maybe we should consider QDMA on some of our farms. Boy you would have thought I asked these guys to give up their first born child.

    I have been in this club for about 8 years and it just kills me that they shoot anything that walks. Button buck, spike, forky they don't care. It's a deer it's down.

    One farm I hunt has two large farms that adjoin it. They do serious buck management on both of those farms. You would think we should do the same.

    My thoughts were that you would be exempt from the QDMA if you were under 18yrs of age or had never shot a deer before. These people and children could shoot whatever they wanted. The rest of us should only shoot 8ptrs or better. I would prefer 120" or better but don't think they could judge deer well enough to know. If you shot something too small, you pay the club $50. I didn't think this was too much to ask.

    Last year I could not bring myself to gunhunt with these guys. I had to give it up. I'll go with my bow and shoot what I want and let walk what I want.

    It's really frustrating to let the small ones go during archery season and watch them be 1 year from becoming a really nice buck and then see it in someones pickup during shotgun season.

    I guess at my age, (did I just say that!), the idea of a trophy in my eyes and someone elses are very different. If it's not big enough to pay to have mounted and put on the wall, I will not shoot it. I'll shoot a doe instead.

    Sorry, I'll jump down from the soap box now.
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  2. #2
    Member deerkiller's Avatar
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    QDM in my mind is a great thing!!! I agree with your rules and not making the penalty to harsh! That way if somebody accidentally shoots a small deer it isn't the end of the world. I ABSOLUTELY HATE gun hunting! The only reason i do it is because it is a tradition that my brother, dad, and i go every year! A few seasons ago i passed up shots at 16 different bucks during bow season becuase they weren't up to my standards. During rifle season 7 of them got shot!!!!!! I like to shoot deer just as much as anyone else but that is what a bonus tag is for!!! I always shoot at least two doe a year for practice when the big boy walks through!!! You have to let them GO to let em GROW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
    no, I'm not a good shot, but i shoot often!

  3. #3
    I pray for you! BUNNYMAN's Avatar
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    I wish all of NY would do a qdm, w/ a minimum of 8 points. I think the hole herd would benefit from it. Then maybe we would see some of the deer that only seem to be available on paid hunts or Westchester county. for those of you that live in NY you know what I mean about the Westchester golf course deer.
    I cut things up and split them down!

  4. #4
    Evil Genius brokenarrow's Avatar
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    When they put that 3 point one side antler restriction on Ulster county this past season I thought that was a good start. But man, the guys I know FLIPPED! They shot what ever walked by anyway. But these are the same guys that complain about the lack of big bucks in our area


  5. #5
    I pray for you! BUNNYMAN's Avatar
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    I live and hunt in the 3 point area of Ulster County that you speak of and the number of bad stories I heard this year made me sick. It didnt have enough points so i left it there, that line came thru a few times. At the deer checkes the guys would just say they shot it up the road from the 3-point area and were just driving thru, makes me sick.
    I cut things up and split them down!

  6. #6
    Senior Member MoBowman's Avatar
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    Missouri made 29 counties restricted areas a couple of years ago, 4 points on one side. At first there was alot of complaining from some folks but that has really tapered down and most really like it now. Another couple of years and they will begin to reap the benefits from it. During the youth season the restrictions are lifted. I give it a couple of years and you may see the whole state go to the 4 point rule


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  7. #7
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    humm touchy subject here...... Thier are some ranchers and privet land owners in some places here that will not let you take the smaller bucks, but most public land is open to take anything, exept the draw only areas, In many areas, if the hunters wernt taking a % of the smaller deer, they would be so over populated, their would be other problems, I agree it would be great to hunt in places with alot of big bucks, but fish and game is more concernd about #s and heard populations, rather then how big the bucks are, alot of states have draw only hunting for alot of game, and verry short seasons. Here, on our deer A tag, and general elk tag, we can hunt 6 weeks in the archery season, and 6 weeks for gun season, in most areas, i hunt elk with alot of out of state freinds, and no such thing for them. Im so very very thankfull i get to hunt the entire season we have, This im sure will change over time due to the high increase of upcoming hunters here.

  8. #8
    Member deerkiller's Avatar
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    It is a very touchy subject!!! Young hunters or 1st year hunters should be able to shoot whatever they want! Those hunters that are just hunting for meat should shoot does!!!!!! But on the other hand if you need the meat to survive the year you are not going to pass up deer anyway. Tough subject!

    We have 2 300 acre plots of land in WI and on both we practice qdm on both and after 4 years we are seeing a HUGE difference. We hunt with the same 10 people every year and the rules change every year! we don't shoot anything smaller than 30 points (our Rule) That would be #of points, spread, and circumference of bases has to equal 30! Seems to work pretty well (example: 10 pointer 15 inch spread, 2.5 inch bases) The old guys or young hunters can shoot a smaller buck but other hunters must shoot nice deer. We talk about fines every year but just jokingly! We have shot deer that were smaller than the 30 point rule, no fines just a lot of embarrassment!!!!!
    no, I'm not a good shot, but i shoot often!

  9. #9

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    Its alot like length limits on Bass. If you have a 12 inch limit you see alot of 11 and 3/4 in fish. 18inch limit and you see alot of 17 3/4 in fish. 17 3/4 is a lot funner then 11 3/4 in fish. Deer are the same. Put the limit on and and we'll all see bigger deer all the time. Some people just can't see past today. In as little as 3-5 years they would be in heaven! But some people just won't take the time to try to understand and reason. You just need to try to show them the facts. Talk to individual people who might listen and build a following.

  10. #10
    bambi killer killbambidead's Avatar
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    the general rule of thumb where i hunt is 8+ points and it has to b wider than its ears

  11. #11
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    Well..I would like to add some thoughts....

    Here in NC, we have some big issues with our expanding deer herd. If the bowhunters do not start harvesting more does, you can bet your money that the NCWRC(North Carolina Wildlife Resources Commision) biologists will suggest that the firearms sesaon be extended.

    As of now, too many NC hunters focus on harvesting bucks, regardless of their age. It's poor thinking from a management point of view. There is a new breed of hunter coming of age now that is being educated on management.

    Here are my rules for my kids. I have 3. Your first deer harvest can be the first deer you have a clean shot at. Your first buck can be any size, your second buck will be a buck worthy of mounting. The rest is history.

    It is easy to teach quality management to your children. It is quite the opposite to teach this practice to adults. But, I never give up the opportunity to teach adults about quality deer management.

    All that said, those of you who have a passion for better deer....keep doing what you are doing. And, don't forget to harvest some does.
    Take a kid with you. Show them the Great Outdoors. Pass it on.

  12. #12
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    Geez pinky the second buck must be one worth mountin??? you must have some good places to go, round there, here the large majority of all the public land and most of the privet land, where they let people hunt, unless you get really really lucky, you might not see a buck worth mounting. Just to many hunters, their are a few places with nice bucks, and their are some nice deer taken here, on public land, but people need to understand that their are still meat hunters out their, im one, ive passed up some dinky bucks, wanting something bigger, but their comes a time, when id rather fill the freezer then the wall!!! Dont get me wrong, id love to figure out a way to manage the bucks, but with sooooo many hunters, theis no way possable to do it in all the public areas here. If you dont manage the numbers carfully their will be problems, say if you say no taking of bucks in area , then the does get killed off, Then its closed totaly for a season, because the fawn count was so low, so all the hunters goto the next area, and wipe the deer out their cause now theirs twice as many hunters, then the last place gets opend back up, but now theirs 7 or 8 good bucks, but twice the hunters that came from the other area, cant hunt their anymore cause the deer got wiped out so bad the year before. I feel fwp dose a fairly good job managing the herds here, and we have a long season, Im verry THANKFULL i get to do the hunting i do, reguardless of how big the bucks are.

  13. #13
    Member ridgewalker243's Avatar
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    Default Qdm

    Chris I think you tried for to much at one time. I know for you 4 points on one side may not be that much but for a lot of guys it is. I am from vermont and last year the finally passed no shooting spike horns. It took them 5 years and a heck of a lot of public meetings and hunter input to pass it. I would try to get 3 points on one side first. Then you at least can shoot a 5 point, it just sounds a little better. Also remind them that another part of good QDM is harvesting does. After a couple years of 3 points on a side they can see that QDM is going to work you can push for 4 points. I know how hard it is to get people to see its better for the hunters and the herd but keep on it and good luck.

  14. #14
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    My post is mostly in reference to Pinkys and Bullspotters comments.

    I am lucky enough to work "hands on" with whitetail deer. Needless to say I've learned a lot in the last several years. The North Carolina Wildlife Resources Commision seems to do more against hunting than for it. They seem to not give a crap about the actual health of the herd. They seem to have a kill em all philosophy. Whether its because insurance companies or development companies are putting pressure on them or not, I don't know. Many of us are fed up with our "wildlife representatives." We are permitted to kill 4 bucks in some areas...(eastern season). That is simply ridiculous.

    Some folks just don't want to learn QDM. It's amazing to me. A healthy herd is a quality herd. Your area may not grow Boone & Crockett or Pope & Young bucks very often, but what is wrong with taking the mature animals. A 100 inch 8-point might be big for your area. So why not try to grow more of them. Your not going to grow more of them if you keep killing 4 & 6 pointers and ignore the does. Some people are too concerned with killing!!!!

    I love venison. My wife doesn't eat it. So I shoot a couple older, larger does for me to eat the entire year. Anything else gets donated to Hunters For The Hungry. You don't have to "slaughter or wipe out" the does to eat venison.

    What is a "trophy" for your area? We can't all live in Pike County, Illinios or Iowa or Kansas. Why not try to out-wit the older deer in your area? If a hunter of 15+ years shoots a 4-point buck, isn't that like a grown man outsmarting a 5 year old kid?!

    I believe a youngster should get some deer under his belt. If he/she shoots a spike one year, maybe next year nothing less than a 4-point. Meanwhile, he/she is shooting a few does.

    We will never educate everyone on QDM. I'm truly amazed by the amount of experienced hunters who either cannot grasp QDM or refuse to.

    Set goals that are attainable. I live in an area where seeing a 150-160 inch buck isn't very common, so I'm holding out for a 120-125 inch buck. The point is be realistic.

    I'm sorry for snapping, but this subject is one I feel very strongly about. It's common sense folks.
    Home-a-lite
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  15. #15
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    Umm who said the does needed to be slaughterd or wiped out for people to eat venison? I take my share of does, (what fwp allows me to).We get 1 tag that we can shoot a buck or doe on. this is called a A tag, Its either sex either species, and almost unlimited to area. then we can get extra doe tags for some areas, these are called B tags. this is restriced to whitetale or muley, and by reigion. you pick what species you want to hunt and the area, then put in for it, if you get it, thats the only area its good for. fwp decides on these, based on how the numbers look on animal population in each area. A tags are sold to anyone who can hunt, no qota, or regs on how many can be sold, But its one per hunter, B tags are limited. I dont even have a educated guess on how many A tags are sold here, ill try to get to fish and game and see if they can give me some numbers. My Entire family eats the meat, I killed a rag horn bull elk, and 2 whitetails last season, and its about 85% or so gone, so i dont kill just to kill. I would love to see some restrictions that would allow for bigger bucks, and help them, but I just dont see it hapining in areas where their are so many hunters, If you could get 30 to 40 % of the hunters to do it, it would be a start, but thats one heck of a task, and we keep getting more and more hunters every year.

  16. #16
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    Home-A-lite..... By chance you have any #s on deer to hunter %s. Example. 50,000 deer and 15,000 hunters, You guys can take 4 bucks in some areas??? holy cow if it was like that here, 95 % of the bucks would be killed off in the first year. Then we would have a problem. Im not trying to cause any trouble here, But find this interesting, on how #s are managed in differnt states.

  17. #17
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    Bullspotter, you mentioned too many hunters killing off all the does in your 7-20-06 post.
    I believe our wildlife agencies and/or our wildlife representatives aren't doing enough to educate in some states. I'm not familiar with your state. The hunters in Pennsylvania slaughtered as many does as they could, in some areas, just because they disagreed with antler restrictions and the PGC was giving out plenty of doe tags.
    Did Gary Alt educate enough folks? Apparently not. Or did the PA hunters not give a crap?

    I purchase a resident "Sportsmans License" in North Carolina. With this license I can fish and hunt. I can shoot 6 deer, 2 wild boar, 2 turkey, and a bear. Our state is broke up into different seasons....western, central, and eastern. I hunt in the central and eastern. Last season I was permitted 2 bucks in the central and 4 bucks in the eastern (cannot shoot more than 4). I can shoot 6 does if I choose. Last I heard, changing the entire state to 2 bucks was coming up for a vote. But their was unbelievable opposition to that change.

    I can recall reading the whitetail deer population being 900,000-1,000,000. I'm not sure how many hunters the state has.

    Just working on a healthy herd, in some places, seems to be a good step towards QDM. I think some folks get discouraged because their area might not grow a Boone & Crockett.

    What works for one state may not work for another. I wish the game commisions/wildlife agencies would do more to teach the benefits of a healthy herd or QDM.
    Last edited by Home-a-lite; 07-27-2006 at 09:25 PM.
    Home-a-lite
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  18. #18
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    I would like to see more qdm. I hunt in Missouri in one the counties that is not in the 4 pt. antler rule and would like to see it applied to the counties that I hunt because the past couple of years I have seen way to many little spikes, 4's, and 6's killed. I shot my first buck with my bow last year and it was a 2 1/2 yr old 6 pt. with a nice spread, but I passed up on 6 smaller bucks before I finally took that one. Now I will not shoot anything that doesn't have at least 8pts and spread outside of the ears. If you practice a little quality control where you hunt you can have a better opportunity to kill bigger deer year after year. I am hoping to get a shot at one of the 4 big monsters that we saw last year, they all went 140+.

  19. #19
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    Part of my post on the 20th was a senerio of what would happen to the does if their was some kind of rule about shooting the smaller bucks here. If we had like a 4point rule on each side to be leagel to shoot, all the guys shooting forks and spikes and such would be killing off the does, not enough 4x4 bucks to go around. and that would be bad bad bad on the doe population. thats what i mean, were not acually killing them off, our fwp people here do good for total population control as far as herds getting wiped out, but they dont do much for letting the smaller bucks grow up....

  20. #20
    Evil Genius brokenarrow's Avatar
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    Here in NY They just added A 3 pt 1 side rule to a second county in my area. It is just for 3 yrs but it's a start.
    I get 5 tags a year: 2 doe management,1 antlerless, 1 either, and 1 Buck(rifle season). I don't hunt for trophies, but I do shoot for quality. In my area it is normal to see good 6&8 ptr's, and the occaisional monster. But not in the overhunted areas. Granted Bow season is alot less crowded than rifle season (it seems like they bus 'em in from the city)I've seen guys hunt the merge strips on highway on & off ramps, when there's a thousand acres of state land 20 miles away with nobody on it.
    Sorry got alittle off. I live an hour north of NYC, and not pointing fingers at city hunters(alot of guys up here have the same attitude) they say only women and children shoot at does, but they will blast that immature spike like nobodies business, and tie it to the roof of the car for the ride home. You know" If it's brown, it's down".
    If you gotta eat it's one thing, But if you want to play the "Great White Hunter" make um count!
    Just my $.02!


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