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  1. #1
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    Default Archer Development Strategy

    Does this theory I've been thinking about have any validity? New bow-hunters should shoot heavy, big, slow bows, with heavy big broadheads. When they get more experience and skill they can go to lighter arrows, heads and smaller speed bows. I think I heard heavy broadheads shoot easier/more forgiving than light arrow set-ups. Is that true? Even if it isn't. It forces the inexperienced archer to take short shots(due to quick drop rate). Shorter shots are better when you got buck fever! The hunter will start their carreer on a good foot with nice 15 yard kills. They will gain quick experience at getting in close being forced to take close shots. Every other deer stalk will seem easy when they are taking 35 yard shots. Their heavy set-ups will also blow apart shoulders on bad shots, and these heavy/wide cut broadheads can help a lot on marginal shots. Would this be a good recomendation to the young/new bow hunter?

  2. #2
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    Anybody should use what shoots best for them. Why limit one to a slow bow with heavy arrows? Limit the shot distance perhaps, cause Sh.. happens, a miss is a miss at at any speed.
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  3. #3
    are u a fat boy? kbohunt's Avatar
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    Default hi there

    I dis-agree
    ive set-up hunting bows, for beginners for years and taught them to shoot
    the best way is to take them, if there intrested..see how much money they wanna invest in the sport..set them up with the best possable equipment
    put it all togeather for them..shoot it myself out to 40-50 yds
    give it to them and let them start shooting at 15-20 yds and move back and tune the bow to there way of shooting if you have to,with them.
    they have any problems later, they come over.
    iive turned out a heck of alot of great bowhunters includeing my 20year old son..who at 14 killed his first deer at 28yds shooting a little browning micro-midas..but i did have that little bow shooting 225fps which is fast for it on 45lbs.
    he's been killing deer every year since then got 2 last year.


    the key, i think, is if you come to me and you have never shot a rifle before but you wanted 1..we go out and get you 1 put a scope on
    and i sight it in, hand it to you and you shoot a beer can at 200yds with it
    how would you feel?

    well thats the feeling you need to give someone starting out.
    ive had a guy 2 years ago never shot a bow in his life, just wanted to bowhunt
    i set a pse brute up for him, shootin like a rifle
    he killed more deer than me last year..
    thats what we archers need for ppl to get hooked on the sport..not frustrated


    another factor is the deer
    if a deer is looking at you and you are at full draw at 35yds..it doesnt matter how fast your rig is..you might get lucky..but most of the time you wont.
    kbohunt

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  4. #4
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    Default reply

    Good points. Very good points. But is it not true that lighter arrows tend to have a little less forgiveness to improper shooting form? I don't know where or who I heard that from, but I was once told that lightest possible arrows were not neccisarily the best for accuracy.

  5. #5
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    interesting, a 375gr arrow at 280 fps makes 65 KE and a 600 grain arrow at 220 fps makes 64 on the Ke chart. So i would say the big slow setup will not blow a shoulder apart anymore then the light fast one??? Im also thinking that most new bowhunters will not limit their shots on this speed issue, maybee more like how well they shoot, their hunting skills, what they know about it, and if they know where, how and when to try to shoot an animal ext. You take a first time bowhunter, put him in a tree, put a 150 class buck 10 yards out of his range and see if he shoots cause his bow is smoking fast, and if he dosnt cause hes got big slow arrows.... .... Their are some guys who have a set yardage for hunting, and wont shoot past that period, others will. Their really is no right awnser to this as its really up the the hunter as to how far he thinks he can push it, Ill tell ya from experiance, a whitetail doe will jump the string on a 285 fps bow at 12 yards. I think the sound of a bow firing travels around 1100fps, any animal will here it long before the arrow gets their, the longer it takes the arrow, the more time the animal has to move, Witch could cause a poor hit, longer shots will be magnified, even only out to 60-90 feet. I personly choose to have a faster arrow speed then a slow one, others prefer a heavy arrow for more KE, my hunting rig shoots a 400 gr arrow (mid range weight i would say)at 285 and makes 72 on KE. Plenty for what i need out of it, i shoot it well and dont have any issues with the draw weight. 68lbs. Others do so they shoot less. Their is really no garantee that you will make a perfict shot on every animal. Things can and will go wrong even at close range. Although im sure thiers hunters who have taken home everything they have ever shot in their entire life, i however am not one. and yes its distubing. My .02

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tenderfoot View Post
    Good points. Very good points. But is it not true that lighter arrows tend to have a little less forgiveness to improper shooting form? I don't know where or who I heard that from, but I was once told that lightest possible arrows were not neccisarily the best for accuracy.
    I dont think a 400 gr arrow will be much less for giving then say a 500gr or heavier. Now things like proper tunning,draw lenth, a draw weight thats comfertable for the shooter ext and some basic knowlage about the equipment I would think are more important to be a good archer, If you have never shot a bow, and 2 weeks before season starts you goto a store buy the archey stuff on you list, I dont think a heavy arrow will compensate you for not knowing how to setup, or properly use the equipment.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tenderfoot View Post
    Does this theory I've been thinking about have any validity? New bow-hunters should shoot heavy, big, slow bows, with heavy big broadheads. When they get more experience and skill they can go to lighter arrows, heads and smaller speed bows. I think I heard heavy broadheads shoot easier/more forgiving than light arrow set-ups. Is that true? Even if it isn't. It forces the inexperienced archer to take short shots(due to quick drop rate). Shorter shots are better when you got buck fever! The hunter will start their carreer on a good foot with nice 15 yard kills. They will gain quick experience at getting in close being forced to take close shots. Every other deer stalk will seem easy when they are taking 35 yard shots. Their heavy set-ups will also blow apart shoulders on bad shots, and these heavy/wide cut broadheads can help a lot on marginal shots. Would this be a good recomendation to the young/new bow hunter?

    Somebody has to much time on their hands,this sounds like a Bunny post.

  8. #8
    are u a fat boy? kbohunt's Avatar
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    Default ok

    Quote Originally Posted by Tenderfoot View Post
    Good points. Very good points. But is it not true that lighter arrows tend to have a little less forgiveness to improper shooting form? I don't know where or who I heard that from, but I was once told that lightest possible arrows were not neccisarily the best for accuracy.
    The answer is yes.a lighter arrow will not be as forgiveing ( on an imporperly tuned bow)

    read that carefully.

    if the tuneing of a bow,,say the tiller measurement is off just a little
    i have noticed that a very light arrow will not fly right out of it, but a slightly heavier one will.
    Example= i set-up a bow for someone along time ago..he was shooting..64lbs 28in draw shooting eastons XX75-2213 out of it around 280fps

    well he came back to me. he had desided to crank his bow up a pound or 2
    and got the tiller measurement out on it.
    he had taken a 2219 ( much heavier arrow) and the bow was shooting fine after re-tuneing.

    well he woundered where his speed went..he ha dropped down to like 225fps
    i dugg into it found out his whole rig was way outta tune..tiller was way off.nocking point and all..we re-tuned..but he liked the heavier arrow so there was a compromise.
    ended up perfectly tuned on 2216's and shooting 260fps
    so its not weight...light ....heavy..fast..slow.....
    its is your set-up...rig working....tuned.

    i had a dvd that show the scientific statistics of a deer jumping the string
    and here's what the pro's say and i believe in this.
    wright it down i may not remember it again
    a human can react from the time he thinks about something in 3/4's of a second from start to finish of doing a task...
    a deer or all pray animals which eyes are put on the sides of there heads have a gift given to them--they can react from the time they think to the time they move in 1/4 of a second.
    a filming was done and recorned of a deer jumping the strings reaction time from sound

    ok heres the key=a deer reacts in 1/4 of a second sound traveles at 2000fps
    at 30yds it was filmed in slow motion several times a deer droped his body down from 12-15 inchs before the arrow reached him.

    In real ,the test say an arrow would have to travel at atleast 800fps to hit a deer with no movement of the deer at 30yds..if he reacted to the sound of your bow going off.

    and there aint any bows shooting in the 800 range yet
    yea i studyed this string jumping in depth some 15years ago..alot of information out there about this.

    anyway its about your ability to get that arrow into that animal without detection of it comeing..speed or no speed is not the final out come.
    Last edited by kbohunt; 08-13-2008 at 09:06 AM.
    kbohunt

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  9. #9
    are u a fat boy? kbohunt's Avatar
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    Default i minute

    Quote Originally Posted by kbohunt View Post

    The answer is yes.a lighter arrow will not be as forgiveing ( on an imporperly tuned bow)

    read that carefully.

    if the tuneing of a bow,,say the tiller measurement is off just a little
    i have noticed that a very light arrow will not fly right out of it, but a slightly heavier one will.
    Example= i set-up a bow for someone along time ago..he was shooting..64lbs 28in draw shooting eastons XX75-2213 out of it around 280fps

    well he came back to me. he had desided to crank his bow up a pound or 2
    and got the tiller measurement out on it.
    he had taken a 2219 ( much heavier arrow) and the bow was shooting fine after re-tuneing.

    well he woundered where his speed went..he ha dropped down to like 225fps
    i dugg into it found out his whole rig was way outta tune..tiller was way off.nocking point and all..we re-tuned..but he liked the heavier arrow so there was a compromise.
    ended up perfectly tuned on 2216's and shooting 260fps
    so its not weight...light ....heavy..fast..slow.....
    its is your set-up...rig working....tuned.

    i had a dvd that show the scientific statistics of a deer jumping the string
    and here's what the pro's say and i believe in this.
    wright it down i may not remember it again
    a human can react from the time he thinks about something in 3/4's of a second from start to finish of doing a task...
    a deer or all pray animals which eyes are put on the sides of there heads have a gift given to them--they can react from the time they think to the time they move in 1/4 of a second.
    a filming was done and recorned of a deer jumping the strings reaction time from sound

    ok heres the key=a deer reacts in 1/4 of a second sound traveles at 2000fps
    at 30yds it was filmed in slow motion several times a deer droped his body down from 12-15 inchs before the arrow reached him.

    In real ,the test say an arrow would have to travel at atleast 800fps to hit a deer with no movement of the deer at 30yds..if he reacted to the sound of your bow going off.

    and there aint any bows shooting in the 800 range yet
    yea i studyed this string jumping in depth some 15years ago..alot of information out there about this.

    anyway its about your ability to get that arrow into that animal without detection of it comeing..speed or no speed is not the final out come.
    Forgot to add.
    the other key
    It takes from the time your arrow leaves your bow to the time it takes to travel 30yds...778 of a second at 200miles per hour
    i had to break that down..to 3/4 of a second and around 275fps

    thats the other information on the studies
    kbohunt

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  10. #10
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    Ok, maybe speed is not so much an issue in my theory(I agree fast is better). But a perfectly tuned bow may be a hard thing for a first-timer to acheive(heck, after three years I doubt I even have it right). It(slightly heavier arrows) just acts as a safety net...if your bow is tuned, it works. If it isn't it still works ok.

  11. #11
    are u a fat boy? kbohunt's Avatar
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    Default ha

    Quote Originally Posted by Tenderfoot View Post
    Ok, maybe speed is not so much an issue in my theory(I agree fast is better). But a perfectly tuned bow may be a hard thing for a first-timer to acheive(heck, after three years I doubt I even have it right). It(slightly heavier arrows) just acts as a safety net...if your bow is tuned, it works. If it isn't it still works ok.
    ok lets say this...a well tuned bow is the most important
    fast is not nessacerly better.
    good speed is ok but bow noise is more important in hunting.
    sometimes you have to go a little bit heavier to quiet a bow down..
    there's alot of factor's
    and obsticles in bowhunting besides the bow.
    kbohunt

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  12. #12
    Senior Member Werd's Avatar
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    faster is not always better. I killed my first button buck with a champion sabre why back when i was 12. Hit him back a bit, using expandable broadheads, the 7 dollar ones from walmart, and he ran 50 yards and stood there for 45 minutes. then my dad took a shot at him to try to put him out and shot under and he took off running, ran another 50 yards and layed down. It's all about shot placement. if your shooting 340fps and hit the heart or shooting 200fps and hit the heart, what is the difference? its still a good shot at nomatter how many fps. I was at 40 lbs back then. so you figure. OHH AND ALUMINUM arrows
    "I have a passion for whitetail deer, not a passion for killing them. The fact that I deer hunt does not make me their enemy, but their guardian."
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  13. #13
    Senior Member J.C.'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Werd View Post
    faster is not always better. I killed my first button buck with a champion sabre why back when i was 12. Hit him back a bit, using expandable broadheads, the 7 dollar ones from walmart, and he ran 50 yards and stood there for 45 minutes. then my dad took a shot at him to try to put him out and shot under and he took off running, ran another 50 yards and layed down. It's all about shot placement. if your shooting 340fps and hit the heart or shooting 200fps and hit the heart, what is the difference? its still a good shot at nomatter how many fps. I was at 40 lbs back then. so you figure. OHH AND ALUMINUM arrows
    he stood there at 50 yds for 45 minutes? why didnt you launch another one?.............

  14. #14
    Senior Member Werd's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by J.C. View Post
    he stood there at 50 yds for 45 minutes? why didnt you launch another one?.............
    Man, I was 12. I had no idea what was going on. My dad did tho. and he missed
    "I have a passion for whitetail deer, not a passion for killing them. The fact that I deer hunt does not make me their enemy, but their guardian."
    I play snake

  15. #15

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    i have to agree somewhat. i'm no expert, and i don't owne an archery shop. but i've been bowhunting for over 20 yrs. i've shot just about everything made during this time. my 1st setup was a fred bear w/overdraw shooting 24" 1816 arrows. accurate as hell the 1st week of practice, then all over the place. went back to the bow shop and was told my 1816s were too light. told the guy he was full of it and to just re-tune my bow. this happened about 3 times when halfway thru the season i noticed i had a cracked limb. so, back to the bow shop. instead of saying "i told you so", the man explained that any extra ke that a light arrow can't assorb goes back into the bow, causing it to go out of tune or damaging the bow. he called it "semi-dry firing". to this day i believe a little heavy is better than a little light. i also belive that 5grs per lb of dw is too light especialy for beginers. i now shoot between 6 and 6.5 grs and never have a problem with my bow being out of tune

  16. #16
    are u a fat boy? kbohunt's Avatar
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    Default ha bud

    Quote Originally Posted by aljo View Post
    i have to agree somewhat. i'm no expert, and i don't owne an archery shop. but i've been bowhunting for over 20 yrs. i've shot just about everything made during this time. my 1st setup was a fred bear w/overdraw shooting 24" 1816 arrows. accurate as hell the 1st week of practice, then all over the place. went back to the bow shop and was told my 1816s were too light. told the guy he was full of it and to just re-tune my bow. this happened about 3 times when halfway thru the season i noticed i had a cracked limb. so, back to the bow shop. instead of saying "i told you so", the man explained that any extra ke that a light arrow can't assorb goes back into the bow, causing it to go out of tune or damaging the bow. he called it "semi-dry firing". to this day i believe a little heavy is better than a little light. i also belive that 5grs per lb of dw is too light especialy for beginers. i now shoot between 6 and 6.5 grs and never have a problem with my bow being out of tune
    great statement...speed is not everything.
    and they are dryfireing the bow almost.at 5gr or lower..and some ppl go lower
    just to say there shooting this fast

    only difference is back then the limbs and risors wouldnt take it very long.
    now there built stronger..well some of them.
    so theres alot of nuckleheads out there that have plenty money and if the bow blows up...what the heck, go out get another one and do it all over again.
    I aint one of them i would cry if my huntin bow blew up..its only an 05 but she sure shoots sweet..
    anyway
    very good input.
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