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  1. #1
    Senior Member Ancient Archer's Avatar
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    Default Is this hunting???

    I’ve enjoyed hunting over many years as much as anyone. I think hunting is a great sport and everyone is entitled to participate. However, I’m balking at what I saw last night as a “sport”. Last night, and on previous episodes of Versus, “hunters” arrive at an African hunting camp and are immediately placed in a ground blind 20 yards from an open area that is laced with food (some sort of vegetation). The “hunter” and “guide” sit inside and watch as several Kudos appear. They are surrounded by Kudos and other wildlife. Within an hour two Kudos are shot, by two separate “hunters” each taking their turn inside the blind. The Kudos were within 20 yds, broadside, standing still, and eating the bait. A bit later Wildebeests appear and the same thing again; shot at 20 yd. while broadside and eating. It was like shooting at domestic cattle, certainly not hunting in the normal sense. Yet, the “hunters” are euphoric, with high fives all around as though they have made a great hunting accomplishment.

    When hunting is always “under the gun” why add fodder to the argument? This was ridiculous! Why would anyone consider this hunting in the first place? I can just imagine the exaggerated stories that will be told about their great adventure in Africa. This will damage the sport!
    "A Nation of Sheep Breeds a Government of Wolves!"
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  2. #2
    BOWTECH TRIBUTE deerassassin22's Avatar
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    Default Agree

    I feel the same way you do even on channel 18 for me the OUTDOOR CHANNEL some of their hunts are 10yds from the feeder or someother form of bait. And the hunter love it what kind of Bovine Schitolivy BS is this its not hunting I can tell you that.

  3. #3
    Senior Member JAVI's Avatar
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    The definition of hunting is a fleeting thing subject to many interpretations and personal experiences. We each should decide what we want from the experience without disparaging another’s concept of their experiences.
    When I see someone look down their nose at another who might be different in their methods of hunting I first must wonder if they are that intolerant of another’s religion or race as well…
    Mike "Javi" Cooper

  4. #4
    Sophia's dad
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    I guess I agree. It's like the great never ending debate about high fece hunting, don't see the thrill. But if you don't have the time to get into the sport, & just want to shoot an animal, go for it. I think it is kind of lame myself. Most of the fun for me is to find new land, & harvest an animal in the wild element.

  5. #5
    Senior Member Ancient Archer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JAVI View Post
    The definition of hunting is a fleeting thing subject to many interpretations and personal experiences. We each should decide what we want from the experience without disparaging another’s concept of their experiences.
    When I see someone look down their nose at another who might be different in their methods of hunting I first must wonder if they are that intolerant of another’s religion or race as well…
    The "interpretation" of hunting may indeed vary, but one element that has always been included in the definition of hunting is chase, and fair chase at that.

    To suggest that if a person's interpretation, or understanding, of hunting is different than others actually reflects "intolerance of another's religion or race", is so ludicrous as to be beyond comprehension.
    "A Nation of Sheep Breeds a Government of Wolves!"
    2007/2008 Commander: 60lb/28" DL, HHA OL5519, Code Red, Choc Addiction, .400 Axis, Self-made Shoot-Thru
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  6. #6
    Senior Member JAVI's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bulls Eye View Post
    The "interpretation" of hunting may indeed vary, but one element that has always been included in the definition of hunting is chase, and fair chase at that.

    To suggest that if a person's interpretation, or understanding, of hunting is different than others actually reflects "intolerance of another's religion or race", is so ludicrous as to be beyond comprehension.
    Yes, that would indeed be ridiculous; but no more so than to suggest that only your definition is the correct one.
    Too someone who grew up in say Texas where nearly everyone “hunts” a feeder and their father and their father’s father and his father “hunted” a feeder that is hunting and who the heck are you to tell them it isn’t?

    Oh… and I believe you left out the prime definition of hunting…. To SEEK… nothing about chase there…
    Last edited by JAVI; 12-25-2008 at 02:21 PM.
    Mike "Javi" Cooper

  7. #7
    RIP Ronhop's Avatar
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    Default From Wikipedia

    Hunting is the practice of pursuing animals for food, recreation, or trade. In modern use, the term refers to regulated and legal hunting, as distinguished from poaching, which is the killing, trapping or capture of animals contrary to law. Hunted animals are referred to as game animals, and are usually large or small mammals, migratory gamebirds, or non-migratory gamebirds.

    Hunting can also involve the elimination of vermin as a means of pest control. Hunting advocates claim that hunting can be a necessary[1] component of modern wildlife management, for example to help maintain a population of healthy animals within an environment's ecological carrying capacity when natural checks such as predators are absent.[2] In the United States, wildlife managers are frequently part of hunting regulatory and licensing bodies, where they help to set rules on the number, manner and conditions in which game may be hunted.

    The pursuit, capture and release, or capture for food of fish is called fishing, which is not commonly categorized as a kind of hunting. Trapping is also usually considered a separate activity. Neither is it considered hunting to pursue animals without intent to kill them, as in wildlife photography or birdwatching. The practice of hunting for plants or mushrooms is a colloquial term for gathering.

    The American Fair Chase Tradition

    En uheldig bjørnejakt (An Unfortunate Bear Hunt) by Theodor Kittelsen The principles of the Fair Chase[14] have been a part of the American hunting tradition for over 100 years. The role of the hunter-conservationist, popularized by Theodore Roosevelt, has been central to the development of the modern Fair Chase tradition

    I cherry picked this from Wikapedia. Draw your own conclusions. I like the 'Fair Chase' scenario. But, hunting can be what you want it to be as long as it is within the laws of your state/country.

    Personally I don't give a rat's butt about sitting in a blind and have animals all around in what's basically a giant pen. I get much more personal satisfaction out of a challenge, and the preparations and effort that go along with it. That philosophy has made me a better person over my lifetime.

    I would not say that the stuff you see on TV is not hunting though. It's what you want to do, how you do it, how much effort you put into it, the time you have to do it and what kind of money you are willing to spend to get a kill.

    Ron
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  8. #8
    Senior Member JAVI's Avatar
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    Theodore Roosevelt "Credo of Fair Chase" 1893

    "The term 'Fair Chase' shall not be held to include killing bear, wolf, or cougar in traps, nor 'fire hunting,' nor 'crusting' moose, elk or deer in deep snow, nor killing game from a boat while it is swimming in the water, nor killing deer by any other method than fair stalking or still hunting."

    This was the original doctrine of fair chase, I wonder how treestands got in there...
    Mike "Javi" Cooper

  9. #9
    Big Lew
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    What persons that shoot animals from a blind adjacent to a bait pile that has been feeding animals everyday for a considerable time are doing is exactly that, shooting animals, not hunting. When I lived at home on our bush farm, we would harvest steers by shooting the one that we wanted when it came to feed on hay. Don't see any difference here, it's shooting, not hunting, period.

  10. #10
    Senior Member Daniel Boone's Avatar
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    Default Yes it is hunting

    Just for your information all or most of Africa is high fenced. Thousands of acres and for good reasons. If not the animals would be pouched.

    I will go to Africa one day and hunt with my bow just like this. Its dont by thousands of hunters ever year.

    In my state I can sit in front of a feeder and harvest game (Legally). Many seem to think Im not a hunter.

    Yes there a abundance of game to shoot and harvest. When did this become a problem? Peta and many dont care how you hunt. They want it stopped and Bowhunters are there number one target. Get this they dont care how you hunt. They want it stopped.
    DB
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  11. #11
    Senior Member Daniel Boone's Avatar
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    Default Thanks Big Lew

    Quote Originally Posted by Big Lew View Post
    What persons that shoot animals from a blind adjacent to a bait pile that has been feeding animals everyday for a considerable time are doing is exactly that, shooting animals, not hunting. When I lived at home on our bush farm, we would harvest steers by shooting the one that we wanted when it came to feed on hay. Don't see any difference here, it's shooting, not hunting, period.

    Ill be putting an eleven year old on a feeder tommorrow to shoot his first deer. Get this he wont care and will have the thrill of his life. Its legal and 100% fair in my state. Now please inform how you hunt so I can bash it to pieces. Try me and see if I cant find plenty that think the way you hunt is terriable.
    DB
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  12. #12
    Senior Member Daniel Boone's Avatar
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    Default Another ethics thread

    No scents
    No compound bows
    No GPS
    No treestands
    No water holes.
    No acorn trees
    No food plots
    No game cameras
    No deer blinds
    No private managed deer herds
    Everyone hunt public lands
    No paying for leases
    No guides
    Heck lets all hunt with are bare hands in loin cloths.
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  13. #13
    Senior Member Daniel Boone's Avatar
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    Default Been done for more years than you have been alive here and Africa

    Quote Originally Posted by Bulls Eye View Post
    I’ve enjoyed hunting over many years as much as anyone. I think hunting is a great sport and everyone is entitled to participate. However, I’m balking at what I saw last night as a “sport”. Last night, and on previous episodes of Versus, “hunters” arrive at an African hunting camp and are immediately placed in a ground blind 20 yards from an open area that is laced with food (some sort of vegetation). The “hunter” and “guide” sit inside and watch as several Kudos appear. They are surrounded by Kudos and other wildlife. Within an hour two Kudos are shot, by two separate “hunters” each taking their turn inside the blind. The Kudos were within 20 yds, broadside, standing still, and eating the bait. A bit later Wildebeests appear and the same thing again; shot at 20 yd. while broadside and eating. It was like shooting at domestic cattle, certainly not hunting in the normal sense. Yet, the “hunters” are euphoric, with high fives all around as though they have made a great hunting accomplishment.

    When hunting is always “under the gun” why add fodder to the argument? This was ridiculous! Why would anyone consider this hunting in the first place? I can just imagine the exaggerated stories that will be told about their great adventure in Africa. This will damage the sport!
    Hasnt stopped hunting yet. Just because its not how you do it.
    DB
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  14. #14
    Big Lew
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    Default Daniel Boone

    Sorry I hit a sore spot with you Daniel, normally we argree with most mutually answered posts. Having said that, I still stick with my comments, and they are not meant to say that people that shoot animals over bait shouldn't do so. It is illegal in my province. On another site, a bowhunter from Spokane tells of his experience while hunting over a grain pile. He was hunting in a wilderness area and using bait to attract wild deer close enough to be within bow range. I say that the original situation regarding africa baiting is not the same, it's similiar to me shooting our steers in our farm yard.

  15. #15
    Patriot till Death... monkybrainz's Avatar
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    Default

    im not one for feeders, or "controld enviroment hunting", but the only way to make it fair and true is to arm the animals, till then EAT ON!!!!
    PSE
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  16. #16
    Senior Member Daniel Boone's Avatar
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    Default Your entitled

    Quote Originally Posted by Big Lew View Post
    Sorry I hit a sore spot with you Daniel, normally we argree with most mutually answered posts. Having said that, I still stick with my comments, and they are not meant to say that people that shoot animals over bait shouldn't do so. It is illegal in my province. On another site, a bowhunter from Spokane tells of his experience while hunting over a grain pile. He was hunting in a wilderness area and using bait to attract wild deer close enough to be within bow range. I say that the original situation regarding africa baiting is not the same, it's similiar to me shooting our steers in our farm yard.
    But I stand by what many say. They dont like how you hunt. Each hunter chooses what hunting is to him. You must make that call. I use to think exactly like you. Funny how my views of years studying Peta have changed.
    They hate you and ever hunter regardless, they dont play fair.
    DB
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  17. #17
    He Who Drops His Bow Arm dbdcougar's Avatar
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    Default

    If it's legal I could care less how someone else hunts. Hunt in whatever way brings you satisfaction.
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  18. #18
    Member OneMustFall's Avatar
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Bulls Eye View Post
    I’ve enjoyed hunting over many years as much as anyone. I think hunting is a great sport and everyone is entitled to participate. However, I’m balking at what I saw last night as a “sport”. Last night, and on previous episodes of Versus, “hunters” arrive at an African hunting camp and are immediately placed in a ground blind 20 yards from an open area that is laced with food (some sort of vegetation). The “hunter” and “guide” sit inside and watch as several Kudos appear. They are surrounded by Kudos and other wildlife. Within an hour two Kudos are shot, by two separate “hunters” each taking their turn inside the blind. The Kudos were within 20 yds, broadside, standing still, and eating the bait. A bit later Wildebeests appear and the same thing again; shot at 20 yd. while broadside and eating. It was like shooting at domestic cattle, certainly not hunting in the normal sense. Yet, the “hunters” are euphoric, with high fives all around as though they have made a great hunting accomplishment.

    When hunting is always “under the gun” why add fodder to the argument? This was ridiculous! Why would anyone consider this hunting in the first place? I can just imagine the exaggerated stories that will be told about their great adventure in Africa. This will damage the sport!

    This person posted this same thread on PSE forums and it was shot down hard over their,you might not like how other people hunt but if it's legal then thts's all that matters.
    Like stated,hunters have our own problems fighting the anti's we dont need to add fuel to their fire....
    2010 PSE AXE 7

  19. #19
    Uncle Sam's Canoe Club SandSquid's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wildfan99 View Post
    But if you don't have the time to get into the sport, & just want to shoot an animal...
    Come on over to my neighborhood!!!

    We have plenty of abandoned dogs that have been dropped in our neighborhood that have gone or are going feral. It's gotten so bad the local Animal Control Officer has has told me: "Look You are sworn L.E., you bow hunt, and there is 3 acres of woods behind that pond over yonder, deal with it yourself... Its more humane that the week of captivity and the shot we give them, IF we can catch them.)

  20. #20

    Default

    You are beginning to see alot more of this kinda of thing. I saw a candian whitetail hunt where the deer were coming into opened bales of hay that was left for them. I have seen numerous shows from texas where they are shooting over bait laid down. I personally dont feel this is hunting...UNLESS it is used to get rid of nusiance animals like hogs and pigs. These animals are over running alot of areas in many states now.

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