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  1. #1
    Senior Member TMax27's Avatar
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    Default Victory Arrows SAP

    From the Victory site...
    "Victory Offers SAP on X-Ringers and VX-22s

    Victory Archery checks and spine aligns every arrow on these models. SAP or "Spined Align Process" is where we check the spine and align the label to the stiffest side on each arrow. When fletching we recommend that you fletch with the label at 3:00 position. Any questions call Bart Lawhorn at Victory Archery."

    Has anyone tested this, or is it a marketing ploy?
    2008 Elite XXL 29 3/4" 70lbs- G1 Camo
    2008.5 Elite XLR 29 3/4" 60lbs- Ninja
    2009 Elite XLR 29 3/4" 65lbs- Metallic Red
    2009 Elite GT500 w/ Cuda Cams 25" 47lbs- Pink Ninja

  2. #2
    I pray for you! BUNNYMAN's Avatar
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    Default


  3. #3
    Senior Member TMax27's Avatar
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    Default Which brings a question...

    Let's say they do align the label to the stiffest side, or part, or whatever nomenclature you use. If you shoot weenee vane up, do you want to align that vane with the stiffest side????

    Or for that matter, say you spine test you own arrows, whatever brand that may be, if you shoot weenee vane up, do you align the weenee vane with the stiffest side/part?
    2008 Elite XXL 29 3/4" 70lbs- G1 Camo
    2008.5 Elite XLR 29 3/4" 60lbs- Ninja
    2009 Elite XLR 29 3/4" 65lbs- Metallic Red
    2009 Elite GT500 w/ Cuda Cams 25" 47lbs- Pink Ninja

  4. #4
    Senior Member J.C.'s Avatar
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    Default

    weenee....

    I think the theory is as long as they all are indexed the same it shouldnt matter. I dont ever spine test mine, I just shoot them and if I have a flyer from the group I rotate the nock 120 degrees and try it again. If I cant get it to group it is set to the side and not used.

  5. #5
    Senior Member J.A.G.'s Avatar
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    i'm confused.
    New Breed Archery
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  6. #6
    Senior Member TMax27's Avatar
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by J.A.G. View Post
    i'm confused.
    Which part is confusing???
    2008 Elite XXL 29 3/4" 70lbs- G1 Camo
    2008.5 Elite XLR 29 3/4" 60lbs- Ninja
    2009 Elite XLR 29 3/4" 65lbs- Metallic Red
    2009 Elite GT500 w/ Cuda Cams 25" 47lbs- Pink Ninja

  7. #7
    Uncle Sam's Canoe Club SandSquid's Avatar
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    Default

    I got a set of X-RingersHV's (350) for Mrs. Squid and one of my Youth shooters, and was unaware of this feature, but I can tell you these are some of the best d@nmed shooting arrows I have ever seen.

    Never paid much attention to which vane was"up" because the arrows are ordered and supplied "blacked out" (3 black duravanes 3D's, black pin-nocks) and they shoot RipCords through wide-axle Nitrous-X systems, so we have no vane clearence issues what-so-ever.

    They just load and shoot....
    "Recovery" is instant, they fly perfectly straight, no porpoising or fishtailing and fly flaaaat all the way to the X-Ring. As seen below. (The top two 5's are the shooter, not the arrows.)
    Last edited by SandSquid; 01-09-2010 at 11:55 AM.
    SandSquid

    Gone camping in the mountains of Afghanistan.
    Will return sometime in early/mid 2012.

  8. #8
    Shoot Straight
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    Default

    I can say 100% it is not a marketing ploy. My wife, Myself and my son all shoot Victory arrows in competition and have extensively tested the VX22, VX22HV, XRinger and XRingerHV shafts in both V1 (.001) and V5 (.005)
    The high spine is marked with the label on all target shafts (those above). Now whether you choose to believe that this is effective in producing better groups is completely up to you. Personally I believe that anytime you can get everything the same you can only increase your chance of success.
    As for where you put the high spine - Victory recommends the 3 O'clock position. My own experience is that it just should be the same on all shafts.
    Disclaimer - I am a Victory Archery dealer so I am a little partial but I give the above facts without any fluff!

  9. #9
    Uncle Sam's Canoe Club SandSquid's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by veroshooter View Post
    Personally I believe that anytime you can get everything the same you can only increase your chance of success.
    I'm going to pass this along to my two shooters and have them try it out.

    I'll rotate all the nocks to the exact same alignment in relation to the label on the shaft... Where would you recommend I set the label to? 1200 3:00 6:00 9:00. or should it not make a difference as long as they are all consistent?

    Disclaimer - I am a Victory Archery dealer so I am a little partial but I give the above facts without any fluff!

    Stop being so modest Mike.. You are THE Internet's BEST Victory Dealer.
    I know we will never buy our arrows from anywhere but www.wehavearrows.com


    Last edited by SandSquid; 02-03-2009 at 01:06 PM.
    SandSquid

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    Will return sometime in early/mid 2012.

  10. #10
    Movin on up!!! bullfiddle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TMax27 View Post
    Let's say they do align the label to the stiffest side, or part, or whatever nomenclature you use. If you shoot weenee vane up, do you want to align that vane with the stiffest side????

    Or for that matter, say you spine test you own arrows, whatever brand that may be, if you shoot weenee vane up, do you align the weenee vane with the stiffest side/part?
    It would depend if you wanted the arrow to be as stiff as it can be or if you need it to flex a little more.... Most of the time your going to be well within the spine of the bow your shooting. The only time I could see this as a major issue is if you were pushing the spine limit...
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  11. #11
    Senior Member TMax27's Avatar
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by veroshooter View Post
    I can say 100% it is not a marketing ploy. My wife, Myself and my son all shoot Victory arrows in competition and have extensively tested the VX22, VX22HV, XRinger and XRingerHV shafts in both V1 (.001) and V5 (.005)
    The high spine is marked with the label on all target shafts (those above). Now whether you choose to believe that this is effective in producing better groups is completely up to you. Personally I believe that anytime you can get everything the same you can only increase your chance of success.
    As for where you put the high spine - Victory recommends the 3 O'clock position. My own experience is that it just should be the same on all shafts.
    Disclaimer - I am a Victory Archery dealer so I am a little partial but I give the above facts without any fluff!

    Vero, the part of my question I know you can answer is this... Have you spine tested the Victory target arrows to verify that the label is indeed lined up with the stiffest part of the shaft?


    To everyone else, Vero is where I get my Victory Arrows from and he is a top notch dealer! I understand that trying to get all arrows the same as possible will help out your shooting, unfortunately, my Elite GTO and Victory X-RingerHV 250 V5 shoot way better than I can already LOL
    2008 Elite XXL 29 3/4" 70lbs- G1 Camo
    2008.5 Elite XLR 29 3/4" 60lbs- Ninja
    2009 Elite XLR 29 3/4" 65lbs- Metallic Red
    2009 Elite GT500 w/ Cuda Cams 25" 47lbs- Pink Ninja

  12. #12
    Senior Member TMax27's Avatar
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    Default Clarification...

    I now realize that some of my posts were a bit confusing. I was in no way shape or form meaning to bash Victory Archery... Let me clarify.

    I understand the concept of spine testing and realize that if all your arrows are the same, it will, without a doubt, improve your groups. So that is not a marketing ploy.

    My question is, and should have been, has anyone personally spine tested the Victory Archery target arrows to verify that the label is lined up with the stiffest part?
    2008 Elite XXL 29 3/4" 70lbs- G1 Camo
    2008.5 Elite XLR 29 3/4" 60lbs- Ninja
    2009 Elite XLR 29 3/4" 65lbs- Metallic Red
    2009 Elite GT500 w/ Cuda Cams 25" 47lbs- Pink Ninja

  13. #13
    Shoot Straight
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    Default

    First off thanks to everyone for the kind words! I try not to be a salesman all the time when I am posting to answer questions and I in no way thought you were bashing. It is a perfectly valid question and I am happy to answer:

    Before I actually started selling the Victory line I did everything I could think of to test the claims, specs etc of the arrows. I spine tested probably several hundred of the first arrows that came in and then stopped when I realized they were in fact aligned. I can truthfully say though that I have not tested the spine in a couple of months - even on my own shafts because I am trusting the company based on previous results.

    Now keep in mind that this is not the case on the VForce shafts. They are Victory's hunting line and although many use the HV version in place of Litespeeds for 3D they are not considered target shafts and ar not spine aligned. However, the specs on the Vforce as well as all the other shafts have been understated on the shafts that I have tested. Meaning the straightness has been better than advertised. This is getting long so I'll keep an eye on the thread and post again.

  14. #14
    Shoot Straight
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    Quote Originally Posted by bullfiddle View Post
    It would depend if you wanted the arrow to be as stiff as it can be or if you need it to flex a little more.... Most of the time your going to be well within the spine of the bow your shooting. The only time I could see this as a major issue is if you were pushing the spine limit...
    SandSquid - this is good info to answer your question. In most cases anywhere as long as it is the same on every shaft. Victory has a recommendation of 3 O'Clock.

  15. #15
    Shoot Straight
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    Quote Originally Posted by TMax27 View Post
    unfortunately, my Elite GTO and Victory X-RingerHV 250 V5 shoot way better than I can already LOL
    You can bet that is the case with all of us nuts behind the wheel!

  16. #16
    Senior Member TMax27's Avatar
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    That's good to know Vero!

    Spine testing and aligning is, and I am assuming here, a common knowledge practice to help in tightening your groups, but why doesn't Victory advertise this on thier target arrows? Maybe I just missed the advertisement of this feature
    2008 Elite XXL 29 3/4" 70lbs- G1 Camo
    2008.5 Elite XLR 29 3/4" 60lbs- Ninja
    2009 Elite XLR 29 3/4" 65lbs- Metallic Red
    2009 Elite GT500 w/ Cuda Cams 25" 47lbs- Pink Ninja

  17. #17
    Shoot Straight
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    You aren't the only one. It is buried on their website in the news section. I only figured it out through hearsay myself and then I finally called them to confirm. It is a great feature and something that places them out front - why not advertise it? Actually the reason is Victory is really trying hard to make the best product out there and doing very well but just doesn't have the PR it needs to make the hoopla.

    That's what I'm here for!

  18. #18
    Senior Member TMax27's Avatar
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    That make sense.
    2008 Elite XXL 29 3/4" 70lbs- G1 Camo
    2008.5 Elite XLR 29 3/4" 60lbs- Ninja
    2009 Elite XLR 29 3/4" 65lbs- Metallic Red
    2009 Elite GT500 w/ Cuda Cams 25" 47lbs- Pink Ninja

  19. #19
    Uncle Sam's Canoe Club SandSquid's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by veroshooter View Post
    You can bet that is the case with all of us nuts behind the wheel!
    I prefer the teerm: "The jerk behind the string."
    SandSquid

    Gone camping in the mountains of Afghanistan.
    Will return sometime in early/mid 2012.

  20. #20
    Senior Member TMax27's Avatar
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    Default Check it Out...

    http://www.archerytalk.com/vb/showthread.php?t=828813

    A very good discussion on spine testing, nock indexing, etc.
    2008 Elite XXL 29 3/4" 70lbs- G1 Camo
    2008.5 Elite XLR 29 3/4" 60lbs- Ninja
    2009 Elite XLR 29 3/4" 65lbs- Metallic Red
    2009 Elite GT500 w/ Cuda Cams 25" 47lbs- Pink Ninja

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