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  1. #1
    Uncle Sam's Canoe Club SandSquid's Avatar
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    Default My thoughts on "Staff" positions.

    While crafting a response to Looney Bin's thread on the possibility of offering contingency money and staff positions, etc. I kind of got a bit spun up. I didn’t want to drag his thread through the mud, so I decided to post it in it's own.


    I have some pretty strong opinions about sponsorships..... which I'll happily share.


    :soapbox:

    When myself and my family were heavy into competitive cycling, we were "sponsored" and our sponsors made sure that every year we were seen riding the latest greatest frames and wheels and had all the tricked out components, and it didn’t cost us a penny. They GAVE us all this great gear because they knew that when we were on the podium, people would see their logos and buy their stuff. Now, we are talking about bicycles that cost more than some new cars. Think "hand built Titanium frames that cost over $2,000 for the bare frame". BUT, and this is the big BUT, I would absolutely NOT use or endorse a product I didn’t honestly feel worthy of my endorsement. And we've had some pretty high dollar offers I turned down. The local Bike Shop said "What do you want this year" and built it... And even though I could have a new frame every year, I rode the same one for 4 years.....


    The way the archery community promotes and offers "staff shooter" positions, well it is unlike any industry I have seen. And personally, I think it's disgusting how some shooters will jump brands each year because they are offered better money or new cool products. I see lots of folks wearing their "staff shirts" with this and that logo on it, I think it's almost like a badge of honor for them. I prefer to let my (or my families') shooting speak for me (themselves).

    When my 3 ladies started winning @ local shoots and went on to take the State Championships in their respective divisions, all of a sudden people wanted us to use their products. But they also expected us to pay for them. Umm... No I don’t think so.

    My rule is simple, I will never "sign" with a company whose products I have not already "qualified" would use anyway. I'm not going to be a "brand whore", and neither is anybody in my family.

    Provide a good product at a fair price I'll use it and if asked I'll tell them all about how great it is, without being "on your staff". If your product is a turd, I'm not going to use it, or talk it up, even IF you pay me.

    If you specifically want me to promote your product, I might... Let me have one and put it through it's paces. If I like it, I'll be glad to keep it and use it and promote it for you and proudly wear your logo. If I don’t like it, you can expect it back and I will respectfully decline your sponsorship.

    At Nationals, one big project was to find a hand-held release suitable for an 8 year old girl. We tried every one we could put in her hands. Finally she picked up this one, and after one shot exclaimed "Daddy, this is it!" When I went to pay for it, they asked if my daughter would like to be a staff shooter for them. "Um.. She's only 8 Years old!" "That's OK, we were watching her shoot and we feel she will represent us well." I explained to my daughter what that meant and all that went along with it and she said she would like to do so. The "staff discount" off the retail price was nice, but we would have purchased the product anyway.

    /:soapbox:


    See those names down in my signature? They are there because they EARNED thier way there, they did not buy thier way there... Granted, next Year Mrs.Squid my end up shooting a different brand bow. She really digs her new Mystic but after shooting this "other" bow (let's just say "Yeah, it's pink") she started asking me about the possiblity of getting one, and to also to look into being a staff shooter for them.
    Last edited by SandSquid; 05-14-2009 at 02:11 PM.
    SandSquid

    Gone camping in the mountains of Afghanistan.
    Will return sometime in early/mid 2012.

  2. #2
    At least I admit Im Crazy Looney Bin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SandSquid View Post
    While crafting a response to Looney Bin's thread on the possibility of offering contingency money and staff positions, etc. I kind of got a bit spun up. I didnít want to drag his thread through the mud, so I decided to post it in it's own.


    I have some pretty strong opinions about sponsorships..... which I'll happily share.


    :soapbox:

    When myself and my family were heavy into competitive cycling, we were "sponsored" and our sponsors made sure that every year we were seen riding the latest greatest frames and wheels and had all the tricked out components, and it didnít cost us a penny. They GAVE us all this great gear because they knew that when we were on the podium, people would see their logos and buy their stuff. Now, we are talking about bicycles that cost more than some new cars. Think "hand built Titanium frames that cost over $2,000 for the bare frame". BUT, and this is the big BUT, I would absolutely NOT use or endorse a product I didnít honestly feel worthy of my endorsement. And we've had some pretty high dollar offers I turned down. The local Bike Shop said "What do you want this year" and built it... And even though I could have a new frame every year, I rode the same one for 4 years.....


    The way the archery community promotes and offers "staff shooter" positions, well it is unlike any industry I have seen. And personally, I think it's disgusting how some shooters will jump brands each year because they are offered better money or new cool products. I see lots of folks wearing their "staff shirts" with this and that logo on it, I think it's almost like a badge of honor for them. I prefer to let my (or my families') shooting speak for me (themselves).

    When my 3 ladies started winning @ local shoots and went on to take the State Championships in their respective divisions, all of a sudden people wanted us to use their products. But they also expected us to pay for them. Umm... No I donít think so.

    My rule is simple, I will never "sign" with a company whose products I have not already "qualified" would use anyway. I'm not going to be a "brand whore", and neither is anybody in my family.

    Provide a good product at a fair price I'll use it and if asked I'll tell them all about how great it is, without being "on your staff". If your product is a turd, I'm not going to use it, or talk it up, even IF you pay me.

    If you specifically want me to promote your product, I might... Let me have one and put it through it's paces. If I like it, I'll be glad to keep it and use it and promote it for you and proudly wear your logo. If I donít like it, you can expect it back and I will respectfully decline your sponsorship.

    At Nationals, one big project was to find a hand-held release suitable for an 8 year old girl. We tried every one we could put in her hands. Finally she picked up this one, and after one shot exclaimed "Daddy, this is it!" When I went to pay for it, they asked if my daughter would like to be a staff shooter for them. "Um.. She's only 8 Years old!" "That's OK, we were watching her shoot and we feel she will represent us well." I explained to my daughter what that meant and all that went along with it and she said she would like to do so. The "staff discount" off the retail price was nice, but we would have purchased the product anyway.

    /:soapbox:


    See those names down in my signature? They are there because they EARNED thier way there, they did not buy thier way there... Granted, next Year Mrs.Squid my end up shooting a different brand bow. She really digs her new Mystic but after shooting this "other" bow (let's just say "Yeah, it's pink") she started asking me about the possiblity of getting one, and to also to look into being a staff shooter for them.

    Well said.
    Of all the things I lost I miss my mind the Most!?!?!?


  3. #3
    Member rpford53's Avatar
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    Well said, could not of said it better myself.
    Bob
    If I can't hunt in
    heaven, I don't wanna go
    Shoot straight, and aim
    for the 12 ring.

  4. #4
    Senior Member Daniel Boone's Avatar
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    Default My thoughts

    Many of us who do have staff positions dont change brands often. Pro are shooting and paying top dollar to shoot. I dont blame them for going for the money that what shooting pro is about.

    Im talking most my buddies who are die hard serious shooters.

    We will promote the products and we only promote what we would use as well.

    Im approched by many because I do promote my sponsors well and give back.

    Basicly it up to the owners of these products to decide and choose who they want sponsoring there products. This if I owned the company would be something I would not take lightly.

    Bottomline the more good staff shooters you have out there promoting these products the better. I would also take into consideration getting shooter in all regions.
    DB
    Elite bows, Vortex Binos, Trophy Taker sights, Carter releases, Goldtip Arrows. CBE sights, Vapor Trail Strings, B Stinger stabilizers

  5. #5
    Senior Member Supermag's Avatar
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    I completely agree. I hate seeing Pros or celebs jump boats just for the money and disregard what got them to where they're at.

    I'm also a staff shooter for a company and I proudly promote that company and it's products because I think they are the best available. I don't do it for any money, products or discounts.

  6. #6
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    Default Staff

    with all the products out there today anyone can staff something or other.Strings , releases , you name it its there for the asking.You dont have to be a great shot to be one,just promote the product. Dollars and cents is what its all about.
    I really admire the post that started this thread,kudos to you my friend,for showing your children whats to be done to represent a company and not whoring yourself out to anyone with rpomises of grandure.
    I too am on a staff with a major bow company.But it was done with the accomplishments of my winning, and my laid back attitude towards potential new customers of the company.I shot their equipment ten years before sponsorship and will continue to do so even after Im done.But because I think its the best around,not because Im paid.So if you do become a staff person,be true to yourself and do it for the right reason,not just to impress eveyone around you.

  7. #7
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    Default

    Just a few questions

    With the exception of maybe a handful of shooters- not hunting celebs
    Who are all these folks jumping from one company to the next because of cash every year?

    Most of the folks that I have shot with in the Pro Division have dedicated most of their life and days to the sport and the industry behind it in conjunction with their main job or carrier. These folks all are like family amongst us as well with the industry leaders.

    I really donít think that for the most part to get to the level as a Factory staff thatís itís as easy as some make it I know for a fact that most Pro reps are flooded with everyone and their brother trying to get on staff and they all think they have a right to be there. This gets overwhelming and competitive as far as making the grade for say

    So for the most part there is really not a silver platter as some think 90% of us do it because we love the sport, when you take in consideration that 70 to 80 days a year are dedicated to either standing on a line competing or teaching archery not including travel days, which when traveling that much think of the expense there, then add on entry fees that range from 225.00 to 300.00 a event plus hotels and we havenít even had something to eat yet. I would say for the most part its dedication

    We are all one happy family of archers some are more dedicated to it and some are dreaming of that cool day and many are out there flinging arrows and having a blast, I tend to see the intermediate shooters and a lot of co-op shop shooters that go after anything they can get their hands on. Not All but for the most part the majority Ė you can see this in all the sigs below their names. If thatís cool to them thatís alright

    Just donít interpret that all the archers trying to improve themselves competitive and financially, and most in the Pro division as being there just for the whore hoppin companies and there with their tongues hanging out for the money.

    The atmosphere is really as a family in a whole with the archers and Industry as you participate at this level itís no longer about how much and what you get. Itís about getting along, taking care of each other and representing the Sport and the Industry behind it.

    Archery -- Have fun with it no matter who you are and what you shoot.
    The only one that is your competitor is the air between your ears!



  8. #8
    At least I admit Im Crazy Looney Bin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JDX-- View Post
    Just a few questions

    With the exception of maybe a handful of shooters- not hunting celebs
    Who are all these folks jumping from one company to the next because of cash every year?

    Most of the folks that I have shot with in the Pro Division have dedicated most of their life and days to the sport and the industry behind it in conjunction with their main job or carrier. These folks all are like family amongst us as well with the industry leaders.

    I really donít think that for the most part to get to the level as a Factory staff thatís itís as easy as some make it I know for a fact that most Pro reps are flooded with everyone and their brother trying to get on staff and they all think they have a right to be there. This gets overwhelming and competitive as far as making the grade for say

    So for the most part there is really not a silver platter as some think 90% of us do it because we love the sport, when you take in consideration that 70 to 80 days a year are dedicated to either standing on a line competing or teaching archery not including travel days, which when traveling that much think of the expense there, then add on entry fees that range from 225.00 to 300.00 a event plus hotels and we havenít even had something to eat yet. I would say for the most part its dedication

    We are all one happy family of archers some are more dedicated to it and some are dreaming of that cool day and many are out there flinging arrows and having a blast, I tend to see the intermediate shooters and a lot of co-op shop shooters that go after anything they can get their hands on. Not All but for the most part the majority Ė you can see this in all the sigs below their names. If thatís cool to them thatís alright
    Just donít interpret that all the archers trying to improve themselves competitive and financially, and most in the Pro division as being there just for the whore hoppin companies and there with their tongues hanging out for the money.

    The atmosphere is really as a family in a whole with the archers and Industry as you participate at this level itís no longer about how much and what you get. Itís about getting along, taking care of each other and representing the Sport and the Industry behind it.

    Archery -- Have fun with it no matter who you are and what you shoot.

    When he made his statements about brand hopping and such. I think this is what he was refering to.(In bold) I didn't perceive him making those statements about Semi Pro's or Upper level Pro's such as yourself, but thats just how I took it.
    Of all the things I lost I miss my mind the Most!?!?!?


  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by JDX-- View Post
    Just a few questions

    With the exception of maybe a handful of shooters- not hunting celebs
    Who are all these folks jumping from one company to the next because of cash every year?

    Most of the folks that I have shot with in the Pro Division have dedicated most of their life and days to the sport and the industry behind it in conjunction with their main job or carrier. These folks all are like family amongst us as well with the industry leaders.

    I really donít think that for the most part to get to the level as a Factory staff thatís itís as easy as some make it I know for a fact that most Pro reps are flooded with everyone and their brother trying to get on staff and they all think they have a right to be there. This gets overwhelming and competitive as far as making the grade for say

    So for the most part there is really not a silver platter as some think 90% of us do it because we love the sport, when you take in consideration that 70 to 80 days a year are dedicated to either standing on a line competing or teaching archery not including travel days, which when traveling that much think of the expense there, then add on entry fees that range from 225.00 to 300.00 a event plus hotels and we havenít even had something to eat yet. I would say for the most part its dedication

    We are all one happy family of archers some are more dedicated to it and some are dreaming of that cool day and many are out there flinging arrows and having a blast, I tend to see the intermediate shooters and a lot of co-op shop shooters that go after anything they can get their hands on. Not All but for the most part the majority Ė you can see this in all the sigs below their names. If thatís cool to them thatís alright

    Just donít interpret that all the archers trying to improve themselves competitive and financially, and most in the Pro division as being there just for the whore hoppin companies and there with their tongues hanging out for the money.

    The atmosphere is really as a family in a whole with the archers and Industry as you participate at this level itís no longer about how much and what you get. Itís about getting along, taking care of each other and representing the Sport and the Industry behind it.

    Archery -- Have fun with it no matter who you are and what you shoot.


    I 2nd that. I cant blame some archers for changing brands for the money cause of how much it costs to make all these shoots. Every little bit of money helps. I can guarantee you that if an archer switches brands of equipment that he beleives in what he or she is switching to. Regardless the money the archer still wants to win and you have to beleive in your equipment.

  10. #10
    Uncle Sam's Canoe Club SandSquid's Avatar
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    For the Pro's... the "real" pros, the ones traveling the circuit and spending 30 weeks a year on the road, who rely on archery to pay the bills that's one thing.
    I'm more talking about what I shall call the "Poseur Pro's"
    You know, the "Someday I'll be a huge name, so you better sign me now." and the ones that carry (6) half dozen matched arrows with them and switch out between every other end "to find the ones that are right for me today".
    Last edited by SandSquid; 05-15-2009 at 06:48 AM.
    SandSquid

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    Will return sometime in early/mid 2012.

  11. #11
    I love this stuff rodney482's Avatar
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    interesting thread

  12. #12
    Senior Member hunter2678's Avatar
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    If companies want to offer money and perks to joe bob and his 10 brothers thats their perogative and if anyone wants to switch sponsors every 6 months thats thier choice too...I only worry about myself and the equip that works best for me......everybody's got a price, some just come cheaper than others.. Truth be told this industry is one of the most cuth throat ones out there...so the fair weather shooters should be expected.....in fact I know a few myself. Switching equipment every month isnt condusive to building consistancy.
    Last edited by hunter2678; 05-15-2009 at 07:57 AM.
    Extreme Strings Staff......www.extremebowstrings.com

  13. #13
    Senior Member Daniel Boone's Avatar
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    Default Few thoughts

    Go let a major pro win with a new product or release. You wont believe the sales it starts.


    Xquest here designed his own release called the fail safe back in his day.
    When Dean won Vegas with it he couldnt build them fast enough. Plus the fact most know Dean uses what makes him win. Seen it many times when someone winning. Dean tells me dont worry about what everyone else uses. Find what works for you!
    DB
    Elite bows, Vortex Binos, Trophy Taker sights, Carter releases, Goldtip Arrows. CBE sights, Vapor Trail Strings, B Stinger stabilizers

  14. #14
    Guest Gator eye's Avatar
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    Default My two cents

    If you spend the time and have the talent it takes to be a top shooter in today's archery world then I am sure you can shoot just about any of today's bows and still be on top.

    When and if you can get to this point then it's way beyond a hobby, it's your job.

    I don't know about you guys, but I work for the company that pays me the most. If I stop producing they would have no problem sending me out the door, if they don't pay me I have no problem walking out the door.

    It the same in Nascar, baseball, football, ect......you play for the highest paying team, not the team with the nicest logo.

    But

    Archery is my hobby, I'll don't think I'll ever stand the line at the Vegas shoot off with the other top dogs. I shoot what I want, I ve shot 3 different brands of bows in the last four years and I am sure I'll change again. Even though I go to a lot of tournaments every year, I don't look for sponsorship for the simple fact that having a patch on my shirt and saving 20 percent on a product is just not worth all the lip service to get that sponsorship. If I was that good of a archer the sponsors would find me.

  15. #15
    Adam of Archery Outfitter fstgstdsmpay's Avatar
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    I would tend to agree that there are alot of shooters out there just desperate to get on as a staff shooter that they will shoot anything thats offered up, including gear they really dont like just so they can call them staffers. Just go on to AT's Manufacturing section look at all these new compaines on there just posting "Looking for staff shooter threads" Most of these have hundreds of post and PM responses when they dont know anything about there products and are willing to sign up and use them for a year. Its just ridiculas

    Now Im far from a Pro, but I do have sponsors and do live for archery, and archery hunting. All the products in which I associate my name to are products I like, I shoot, and I believe in. I used all of them before backing them. I would never pay to get on as a staff shooter. Unfortunitly there are alot of people who will pay just for the title and I guess that would be wrong, but heck you cant blame the manufactures great way to get more people to use your products. and even Joes get Attention with the products they use I cant go to a shoot without people being interested in my vanes lol just because they have most likely never seen them before.

    What is strange to me is that people get all worked up over these "staff shooters" positions that are just complete crap. If they want to be had, let them why do you care they advertise for a company even if its crap.

  16. #16
    Bisquit....... BowhuntnHoosier's Avatar
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    Very good reading here.


    "HONDA"

  17. #17
    I love this stuff rodney482's Avatar
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    When it comes to Prostaff

    I think TV hunters produce more sells followed by local top shooters followed by actual pros on the circuit.

    I might be able to name 20 pro shooters but have no idea on what releases they use or arrows they shoot...

    There are alot of shooters who will do just about anything to be on staff but that doesnt bother me any. I say let them represent if that makes them and their sponsor happy.

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