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  1. #1
    Senior Member JAVI's Avatar
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    Default Do you make the bow fit you...

    or do you fit yourself to the bow...
    Mike "Javi" Cooper

  2. #2
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    i like the bow to fit me..guess thats why i've had so many differens ones.

  3. #3
    Senior Member Big Ben 75's Avatar
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    alittle of both
    09 Martin firecat pro-x 70# Apex Atomic QAD Victory hv 1

    PSE Omen 70# HHA Ripcord Victory hv 1

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    Guest Gator eye's Avatar
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    I like to think I buy a bow to fit me.

    I have a idea of what I like...long ATA, good brace height, two cams with solid wall and a slim grip.

    BUT

    I shot a few of the newer bows that don't fall anywhere near that discription that I felt shot really nice and has me second guessing my choices.

  5. #5
    Member steve bear's Avatar
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    i buy close as i can to a fit then tweek till we are in sink.

  6. #6
    Senior Member Huntelk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JAVI View Post
    or do you fit yourself to the bow...
    You will have to watch the video of the Vegas seminar Cuz, Jesse and Reo gave.

    When Cuz was asked why he has left the long ATA bows and went to the Maxxis he had some interesting thoughts on this subject.

  7. #7
    Member 72Beetle's Avatar
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    With a DL of 32"+ I have a tendancy to make it fit me or I will not find one I can fit.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Huntelk View Post
    You will have to watch the video of the Vegas seminar Cuz, Jesse and Reo gave.

    When Cuz was asked why he has left the long ATA bows and went to the Maxxis he had some interesting thoughts on this subject.
    Is that video available online?

    Thanks

  9. #9
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    I would prefer a bow that fits my draw and form, you should be able to set your bow arm and draw and come to anchor without having to fidget or reposition your head while starring at the target of choice.

    As far as all the old school long axle to axle preference.

    Take a modern mid size bow today and lay it on top of a older long axle compound and you may be surprised that the newer bows riser is longer then the older long axle bow then put both of the bows in a draw board and draw back and then measure the axle to axle, you may find that the axle to axle of the older long axle bow to be very close or even in some cases less then the modern bow at full draw, now think about the travel time of the limbs while the arrow is on the string in relation to forgiveness and accuracy.

    Modern bows with longer risers and laid back limbs that travel very little may not look as being less forgiving and accurate as the old school.

    Just something to ponder on.
    The only one that is your competitor is the air between your ears!



  10. #10
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    I have too many titanium plates and screws holding me together so I know I'm not too adjustable. Therefore the bow always gets adjusted to fit me.
    Martin/Rytera Silver Star Shooter
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  11. #11
    Senior Member Huntelk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Allen View Post
    Is that video available online?

    Thanks
    Kevin Wilkey filmed it and said he was going to try and get it on Hoyt's website.

    He had to do a little editing though. A couple conversations won't probably be aired. Cuz even looked right at the camera once and asked Kevin to shut it off before he answered the question.

    There is a reason many of these top level pros don't post on the net. Some of the things they do (that obviously work) tend to get them bashed from the keyboard wannabe's.

    There were a couple comments in that seminar I would have thrown the "BS" flag had it not been proven in front of my eyes.

    I hope Dave's demonstration that dispelled some hybrid cam timing/tuning myths makes the cut, but I doubt it will. Conventional wisdom and even physics were questioned with that display

  12. #12
    Senior Member JAVI's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Huntelk View Post
    Kevin Wilkey filmed it and said he was going to try and get it on Hoyt's website.

    He had to do a little editing though. A couple conversations won't probably be aired. Cuz even looked right at the camera once and asked Kevin to shut it off before he answered the question.

    There is a reason many of these top level pros don't post on the net. Some of the things they do (that obviously work) tend to get them bashed from the keyboard wannabe's.

    There were a couple comments in that seminar I would have thrown the "BS" flag had it not been proven in front of my eyes.

    I hope Dave's demonstration that dispelled some hybrid cam timing/tuning myths makes the cut, but I doubt it will. Conventional wisdom and even physics were questioned with that display

    There are many things that we do as individuals to make a bow work for us that won't work for anyone else, just as there are fifty or more ways to make a hinged release fire and everyone that successfully uses one finds the way that works for them alone. Even the very top pros in the sport can't agree on that one...
    Mike "Javi" Cooper

  13. #13
    Senior Member Huntelk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JAVI View Post
    There are many things that we do as individuals to make a bow work for us that won't work for anyone else, just as there are fifty or more ways to make a hinged release fire and everyone that successfully uses one finds the way that works for them alone. Even the very top pros in the sport can't agree on that one...
    To further prove your point on "differences among pros", Cuz is a devout believer in paper tuning whereas Reo puts very little value in paper tuning. Reo even added that having a "tune" that makes a bullet hole tear in paper may not be ideal.

    One thing they agreed on was when the question from the crowd about "creep tuning" was asked. All 3 guys (Jesse, Reo and Cuz) looked at each other shaking their heads. Cuz made a joke out of how much of a waste of time it is and we went on.

  14. #14
    Senior Member JAVI's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Huntelk View Post
    To further prove your point on "differences among pros", Cuz is a devout believer in paper tuning whereas Reo puts very little value in paper tuning. Reo even added that having a "tune" that makes a bullet hole tear in paper may not be ideal.

    One thing they agreed on was when the question from the crowd about "creep tuning" was asked. All 3 guys (Jesse, Reo and Cuz) looked at each other shaking their heads. Cuz made a joke out of how much of a waste of time it is and we went on.

    Many of the differences can be attributed to different methods of arriving at the same place. Jesse, Cuz and Reo may not creep tune but I assure you they arrive at the same place via another method. After all creep tuning is just another method of tuning the bow to fit you.. Some people use tiller tuning, others read their loop and still others will move their nock point until they “feel” the bow is right.. None of them are wrong, each has found what works for them; but the reason this information is not usually freely shared is simple...

    Someone will always tell you that you're wrong and no one really likes to be told that, especially when it works for you.
    Mike "Javi" Cooper

  15. #15

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    Everyone out there has a method that works! You gotta find what works for you and is repeatable. The top guys have done just that! It's what seperates us from them!!!!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Huntelk View Post
    Kevin Wilkey filmed it and said he was going to try and get it on Hoyt's website.

    He had to do a little editing though. A couple conversations won't probably be aired. Cuz even looked right at the camera once and asked Kevin to shut it off before he answered the question.

    There is a reason many of these top level pros don't post on the net. Some of the things they do (that obviously work) tend to get them bashed from the keyboard wannabe's.

    There were a couple comments in that seminar I would have thrown the "BS" flag had it not been proven in front of my eyes.

    I hope Dave's demonstration that dispelled some hybrid cam timing/tuning myths makes the cut, but I doubt it will. Conventional wisdom and even physics were questioned with that display
    Thank you! I'll keep a watch for it.

    If anyone else sees it available somewhere, please post a link.

    Allen

  17. #17
    Senior Member JAVI's Avatar
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    This wasn't exactly the direction I thought this thread would go, but it's interesting...
    Mike "Javi" Cooper

  18. #18
    Senior Member Huntelk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JAVI View Post
    This wasn't exactly the direction I thought this thread would go, but it's interesting...
    I'm mostly responsible for the direction it went, and kind of got off track. let's see if we can steer this bus back to the middle of the road....


    My perception of whether I make the bow fit me vs fitting myself to the bow is a little of both.

    I have taken every opportunity to shoot all the bows I can to find what configuration "compliments" my natural build and style with as little alteration as possible needed.

    What I have found is the bow that fits me best is one with a thin flat-backed grip. I have found that I am more comfortable with a lower wrist style (ultra elite) grip than that of a higher wrist (pro elite).

    Being a 31" dl I like the string angle of a bow in the 39" to 41" ATA range. I like limbs that are non-parallel enough to give a little feedback. I like a cam configuration that has a wicked-hard back wall, low let-off and a narrow valley that discourages creep.

    The bow I have found that fits me best is the vantage elite with spirals. This bow points were I look at 40 yards with the tiller even. At 20 yards it points high in the top of the 9-ring on a Vegas face with even tiller.

    By "fitting the bow to me" I am more confident that when my form or focus breaks down or I make another mistake of some kind that the bow will be more "forgiving" of my error.

    In my experience "fitting myself to a bow" requires a lot more conscious effort to be consistent. When the "honeymoon" of a new/different bow wears off and my subconscious and instincts take over the mistakes I make seem much more exaggerated.

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by JAVI View Post
    This wasn't exactly the direction I thought this thread would go, but it's interesting...
    Sorry JAVI, my fault too.

    On the original question, I think that the goal should be to fit the bow to the archer. However, in reality there is a little of the opposite.

    My weekend shooting is an example of this. I've been shooting my Hoyt regularly for the past 1 1/2 year. But I shoot 2712's and I didn't want to change it for a FITA shoot on Sunday. So I pulled out my old Mathews, checked the tuning and took it to the shoot. I started out shooting poorly, but by the middle of the round I was shooting normally. I noticed that I had to change my shoulder position and my hand slightly to get off my shot. In other words I adapted my form to the bow.

    Then Monday at league, I noticed that I had to reverse the changes for my Hoyt. Again, I adapted to the bow.

    If you asked me this question last week, I would have said that in all cases I adjust the bow to me, but now I see that I do make small adjustments to adapt my form to the bow.

  20. #20
    Senior Member Huntelk's Avatar
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    Allan,

    maybe we should have stayed on the other topic, at least we were engaging some conversation....where did everyone go?

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