Thread: Bow Rotation
04-05-2010, 06:56 AM #1
- Join Date
- Jul 2004
- Elgin, Texas
Been watching a lot of great target shooting on Archery TV etc. being posted here. Noticed that the bows all rotate downward due to the long front stabs that are used in this type of competition.
Unfortunately, this type of rotation is not possible with short (12") stabs allowed in the "Hunter" classes, which also limit side stabs to a max of 6" projection from the bow.
I'd like to know how much additional accuracy does this rotation permit from shooters that have experience with both. You could express it in group size at different yardages if that's OK, so it can be accurately quantified.
04-05-2010, 07:08 AM #2
Can be achieved
Most popular 12" stabilizer used today. Many world titles won with them.
That certainly can be achieved. B Stingers are used by many of the top guns in the BHFS Class and Hunter classes today. NFAA has no restrictions on the size of back bar.
Last edited by Daniel Boone; 04-05-2010 at 07:11 AM.Elite bows, Vortex Binos, Trophy Taker sights, Carter releases, Goldtip Arrows. CBE sights, Vapor Trail Strings, B Stinger stabilizers
04-05-2010, 07:24 AM #3
It isn't the rotation that increases the accuracy. The additional weight forward causes the rotation.. Here is a great article on the subject.
You will have to register as a forum member in order to read the article..
http://www.archerylive.com/forums/in...showtopic=3893Mike "Javi" Cooper
04-05-2010, 09:00 AM #4
- Join Date
- Feb 2006
Javi is right (as usual), the rotation is occuring after the arrow is gone so by itself it doesn't do anything for accuracy. What is does show is that the archer is holding his form through the shot and that he is not anticipating the release.
There is a bit more to stabilization and balance that you can read about in the link that Javi posted. It seems that the top archers spend a lot of time and effort getting it right. Might be something that the rest of us should pay more attention to.
04-05-2010, 09:17 AM #5
Look up Bernie Pellerite, www.robinhoodvideos.com
He is one of the most well known teachers and icon for target shooting. He's coached hundreds of national champs. I can tell you that in less than 5 mins this man took my bow and balanced it to set on a pin. If you're ever around an ASA tournament he will be there It's worth your time to just sit and listen to the man...ask advice...
As far as the rotation...it's shooter preference. Most that have forward rotation have a heaver end to the stabilizer. Most of this is controlled by weight and most importantly grip. Some of the best in the world, have zero rotation, perfect grips, and most of all form . It's like they've said prior to me, there's no anticipation to the shot.
If you watch the guys that have rotation...they more than likely have a loose grip or open-hand grip, While you watch others like the man, Dan Mccarthy, he has a fingertip grip. This is still a loose grip but you curls your fingers back towards the riser and lightly rest your tips against the front of the riser, while allowing the bow to sit relaxed against the "v" in your hand and with the fingers curled, prevents the most know nemesis to target shooters and thats grabbing or catching your bow, and most have minimal or zero rotation...which again reverts back to a balanced bow.
For most, and I mean most, not all....a balanced bow, with shoot straighter and more accurate. This makes the body follow the brain and line of sight through your eyes to the target and it helps unallow your body to correct the balance of the bow to offset poor weight distribution.
The best thing to do is try it all. Balance your bow different ways and try a 5 shot sequence, starting at 30, to see the immediate results. (longer yardage is where you'll see the differences) Just remember, your last 5 may not be as true as your first 5 due to fatigue. Good Luck!!
Thanks for the link Javi.
Last edited by Hoyt_Shooter; 04-05-2010 at 09:40 AM.
04-05-2010, 01:52 PM #6
- Join Date
- Jul 2004
- Elgin, Texas
Thanks for the excellent info all.
Maybe now I can learn to keep'em all in a small pie plate at 70 yards...
04-05-2010, 05:24 PM #7
Smooth Stability Stabilization – how it works, simplified
Written by: Steve Yee, Smooth Stability National Staff Shooter
As compound bow shooters, we all want to have a bow that is steady, shock free, and quiet. In today’s world of fast speed bows and lightweight arrows, some things end up getting sacrificed.
In 2003, Blair Sandberg from The Stabilizer Company (TSC) was frustrated with the lack of true stabilization. Like any geek at heart, he figured out the rotational physics and ended up creating models that are currently in use by TSC and Smooth Stability, patenting them in the process under US Patent # 6997174.
The purpose of this short white paper is to show compound bow shooters of all types – hunters, 3D shooters, spots, outdoor, and field shooters how the physics of Blair’s concepts work in a simplified manner.
Rotational Motion 101 – simplified
This white paper is not intended to go deep into the physics of rotational motion. This paper is intended to simplify the understanding of it, not complicate it.
With that being said, a bow’s rotational motion is explained in three basic planes of axis – X, Y, and Z. To simplify this, we use another object that we are all familiar with that also moves in three different axis. What is that object? An airplane.
Everyone has seen stunt planes do amazing loops, rolls, and turns. However, that doesn’t make for a very comfortable ride. So – instead we look at passenger planes. Passenger planes are designed to be as comfortable as possible across a wide variety of flight situations. Through storms and odd wind directions, passenger planes are relatively stable considering their design.
To equate the X, Y, and Z axis of a bow’s possible motion in three different directions, we use an airplane’s equivalent. In the aerospace world, an aircraft has pitch, roll, and yaw.
In the photo shown below, it shows the three axis movements possible with a plane. We now equate them to a bow.
Pitch equates to your bow arm. Your bow arm moves the bow up or down, changing the range from shorter range (lowering your arm) to a longer range (raising your arm).
Roll equates to the clockwise or counter-clock wise rotation of the bow while in your bow hand. A proper bow form will have your bow’s cams at a true 12 and 6 o’clock position. Roll makes your bow go from a 12/6 position to a 11/5 o’clock or 1/7 o’clock position.
Yaw is equated to hand torque. The bow will shift to where the bow string will shift totally to the left or right.
How Pitch, Roll, and Yaw get suppressed with a proper stabilizer
We start with Yaw. When an archer is at full draw, the bow will have a tendency to wobble side to side, making the pin shake left to right. This is equivalent to yaw on an airplane.
What a Smooth Stability stabilizer will do is change the center of axis for yaw to where it minimizes the side to side shake. When the proper end weight is chosen for the stabilizer, the yaw will be suppressed in less than 1 to 2 seconds, giving the archer more time to take a proper shot.
In competition, you may have to take multiple shots in a 2 to 2.5 minute timeframe – up to 6 in some competitions out to 90 meters. That basically gives you anywhere from 20 to 25 seconds to pull an arrow from your quiver, nock it, attach your release, draw, wait for the bow to settle, aim, fire, then repeat.
In hunting, you have one chance for a clean, humane harvest. Side to side yawing of the sight pin may mean the difference between a clean harvest or chasing an animal for 100 yards away from your stand to do a follow up shot.
This is where B-Stinger and Smooth Stability stabilizers shine. A properly chosen stabilizer will settle the pin quickly, giving you the chance to take a clean shot, no matter if you shoot paper, foam, or fur.
Roll also affects how a bow shoots. Longer axle to axle bows retard the roll better than shorter axle to axle bows. If you have a bubble on your sight, you see when your bow is canted to one side or another, and the bubble allows you to take steps to correct it.
Smooth Stability stabilizers, thanks to it’s larger hub, allows you to achieve a slight V-Bar effect, basically retarding the roll for shorter axle to axle bows. Depending on how forgiving your bow is, a slight cant to the bow can mean the bow shoots off center left or right by many inches at longer distances. Smooth Stability’s larger hub allows to you resist that canting effect easier, giving you a more perpendicular platform to shoot off of.
Pitch also is slightly effected by the stabilizer as well. It helps retard unwanted cam kick that can be prevalent, especially in today’s single cam speed bows.
Fighting rotation so you don’t have to – that .006 second advantage
It’s been calculated that the arrow sits on the rest after firing for all of .006 seconds. In that brief .006 seconds after firing, any amount of pitch, yaw, and roll created by the cams and other rotational inertia through the limbs will affect the arrow’s flight. No matter how minimal the effect could be, at longer distances it could mean the difference between:
- Backstraps in your freezer or nothing but cold air and a bad memory
- Prize hardware on your shelf, or an “I almost made it”
- Bragging rights for a totally cool shot, or climbing down and going home because that arrow was your last one
Give Smooth Stability stabilizers a try. They have a 21 day money back guarantee. If you aren’t satisfied that your groups get tighter, you get your money back.