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  1. #21
    Senior Member Too Many Hobbies's Avatar
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    Ok my 2 cents.

    first of all Jim on your gun comment about the difference between guns today and guns in the late 1700s. It doesn't matter. the second ammendment reads "A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed." That means that no matter what the government shall not stop me from having arms. In the 1700s a militia-man would have been expected to provide his own Musket/Rifle proablaby a pistol, gunpowder, balls, etc. Now if you are in a militia today you would be expected to use common day arms, ie M-16/M-4/AK-47/M-9/1911, etc. And before you go on about us not having a Militia any more, the wording simply provides for one use of Arms. Saying that the wording prohibits gun ownership now would be like saying that based on the sentance: "In order to make a good Peanut Butter and Jelly sandwich, you need a jar of Peanut Butter," means that the only use of Peanut Butter is to make PB&J sandwiches. It doesn't make sense. Furthermore, the argument that forcing law abiding citizens to give up their firearms makes everyone safer is idiotic. The criminals are already breaking the laws, one more will affect them not at all. Look at crime rates if you doubt me. I agree with Charlton Heston. You can have my guns when you pry them from my cold dead fingers. Also remember that when seconds matter the cops are only minutes away.

    Now as far as President Obama. He and his administration are looking to put a Ban on weapons again according to ABC news (Not exactly a hotbed of conservatives) http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/story?id=6960824&page=1.

    President Obama has already increased taxes on the middle class (16 days after taking office). And if you doubt me ask yourself if you know anyone who smokes. I would guess that you do. Then I would ask if they make more than $200,000. My guess is they would not. Then I direct your attention to this: http://www.infowars.com/no-new-taxes...s-tobacco-tax/. (From the associated Press). Obama did not promise not to raise income taxes on the middle class, he promised not to raise taxes period. I guess we know what his word is worth. Oh and before you tell me that that is one exception, that is simply not true. I direct your attention to his plan to increase capital gains taxes, death taxes, letting the Bush tax cuts expire, raising dividends taxes, etc. All of those apply to me and I promise that I do not make 200K. Now I agree that we need to get rid of the defecit and pay off the national debt; however, the way to do this is to STOP SPENDING SO MUCH MONEY, not take more of my money. Staring down the barrel of a Multi-Trillion dollar deficet he is spending more money. Not exactly responsible.

    Obama has already said that "We are not a christian nation anymore." From a speech in Turkey. We are between 76% and 85% christian depending on the poll. Sorry Mr Obama we are christian.

    As for disarming america of its nukes. The Solviets admitted that our defense spending especially on Nukes and Missle defense (two programs that Obama is cutting) is what helped lead to the collapse of their empire. Thus the argument that "talking" to our enemies will get them to like us better is naive at best and treasonous (via intentionally weakening the national defense which he swore to protect on 22 Jan 2009 when he swore to uphold the constitution: see the preamble) at worst. Now I am willing to give him the benefit of the doubt that he is simply naive, but that is dangerous none the less. The idea that a weaker america is better for the world is stupid, and I invite you to disprove me. The only thing that many of the psychotic leaders arround the world (see Kim Jong Il (North Korea), Mahmoud Ahmadinejad (Iran) etc.) respect is strength. If you think that any of these or many others would hesitate to strike at the US if there were no consequences then think again. Think of the playground bully. They get all nice and sweet when the teacher shows up.

    Now Jim you said one other thing that really boiled my blood. You said that Obama was more of an americian than McCain. Really?! You cannot seriously have said that. Now I do not believe that Obama was born in Kenya. There were birth announcments in two Hawiaian newspapers and that is good enough for me. But McCain was born to an Americian sailor serving his country (which means that he is a natural born citizen just like if he had been born Hawaii, Nebraska, Virginia, or any of the other 47 states), grew up to serve his country, and gave more than 90% of americians could ever dream of doing; whereas, Obama was born in the US and then proceeded to spend most of his growing up years outside of it. Obama may be Americian, but McCain defines it.

    While you are absolutly entitled to your own opinions, I would appreciate it if you got your facts right first. Now the original post was not completely correct; however, it is true that for a while during the campaign Obama did not wear an americian flag lapel pin (Fox News: http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,299439,00.html), and it is true that once or twice he did not hold his hand over his heart during the national anthem (snopes: http://www.snopes.com/politics/obama/anthem.asp). I did not vote for Obama and I can think of no serious possible presidential canidates that would make me vote for Obama in 2 1/2 years. He is bad for the country.

    "The greatest force for good and peace in the world is the United States Military." - Me
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    "One of the serious problems in planning against American doctrine is that the Americians do not read their manuals nor do they feel any obligations to follow their doctrine." - From a Russian Document

  2. #22
    Bisquit....... BowhuntnHoosier's Avatar
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    I'll take GWB any day over this clown we have now. I'll take my God,guns,freedom and you all can keep the change. I think a bunch of lazy people who wants something for nothing voted for him. A government that can give you all you want can take all you have. I believe in equal taxes. The Right to protect my family. And we must protect the unborn who cannot protect themselves. I now hear where they are talking about killing premature babies if the doctors believe they will have problems later in life. Talk about a God complex. ONLY GOD SHOULD MAKE THAT DECISION.


    "HONDA"

  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by BowhuntnHoosier View Post
    I'll take GWB any day over this clown we have now. I'll take my God,guns,freedom and you all can keep the change. I think a bunch of lazy people who wants something for nothing voted for him. A government that can give you all you want can take all you have. I believe in equal taxes. The Right to protect my family. And we must protect the unborn who cannot protect themselves. I now hear where they are talking about killing premature babies if the doctors believe they will have problems later in life. Talk about a God complex. ONLY GOD SHOULD MAKE THAT DECISION.
    Boy howdy, I shore feel priviliged to be hangin' with people that God speaks to and thru.
    How about that Pope? Don't God speak thru him too?
    So I guess God told him to protect pedophiles and become a Nazi?
    Man, you Christians shore got it whupped...

  4. #24
    Senior Member Daniel Boone's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TomT View Post
    Boy howdy, I shore feel priviliged to be hangin' with people that God speaks to and thru.
    How about that Pope? Don't God speak thru him too?
    So I guess God told him to protect pedophiles and become a Nazi?
    Man, you Christians shore got it whupped...
    Some have strong faith TomT. Some feel this country was built on that strong faith and even placed it on ever dollar you spent. Its called faith and not being whupped. Heaven forbid we keep the faith. I hope the future generations have the right to believe in that faith. Some countrys dont.
    DB
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  5. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Daniel Boone View Post
    Some have strong faith TomT. Some feel this country was built on that strong faith and even placed it on ever dollar you spent. Its called faith and not being whupped. Heaven forbid we keep the faith. I hope the future generations have the right to believe in that faith. Some countrys dont.
    DB
    You ain't the only one with "strong faith." I have faith that someday humankind will abandon superstition and allow his intellect to rule with logic and altruism toward others, and have the capacity to understand and accept those that are different.
    Like the old sailors say, "Pray, but row AWAY from the rocks..."

  6. #26

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    Abandon superstition? Could you please clarify this statement? Rule towards others but yet accept them? Please again clarify.

  7. #27
    Senior Member Holy Smokes's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TomT View Post
    You ain't the only one with "strong faith." I have faith that someday humankind will abandon superstition and allow his intellect to rule with logic and altruism toward others, and have the capacity to understand and accept those that are different.
    Like the old sailors say, "Pray, but row AWAY from the rocks..."
    Man a good dose of the Ghost(Holy) is what is ailing this man



    Switchback xt BYC LOOP- SHOOT NOW56# 385gr 2312 Eclipse 100gr Muzzy 256fps SEPTER RANGER STRINGS, 4th axis,335 jammers @ 61# =285 fps

  8. #28
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    Talking Here's what I think !

    Time will tell everything not no fortune tellers who only cause some to worry endlessly !

    I don't see much of a problem ,as we are going to pay for those who for some reason don't want to or can't anyway ,been doing that anyway except now those whose pride has kept them from seeking help ,may now get it . I guess there are some who don't care about their fellow human beings but rather some future that they can't predict anyway .

    Like I wrote , time will tell what will happern ,so just wait !

    PS. Many who complain are those who our government has helped now or in the past , just can't stand someone else getting some help !

  9. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by pse 24 View Post
    Abandon superstition? Could you please clarify this statement? Rule towards others but yet accept them? Please again clarify.
    As ALL religions are nothing but superstitions, as a species we need to abandon them and allow logic to dictate our actions.
    Hopefully this clarifies it for you.

  10. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Holy Smokes View Post
    Man a good dose of the Ghost(Holy) is what is ailing this man
    Man, a good dose of reality will cure this man...

  11. #31
    He who eats fuzzy animals pred8er's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jim p. View Post
    DB, he doesn't want our guns. Tell me honestly, have you or anyone you
    know lost theirs ? I'm a gun owner who is dammed if I do agree and dammed
    if I don't agree with "gun rights". When our forefather's set up the
    constitution and the right to bear arms was part of it. It did not mean the
    gun capible of the kill power there is out there today. It was set up that all
    had the right to have and carry what was available to the basic military
    indivudial back then. Hell of a difference between a blackpowder flintlock to
    today's guns. I'm a gun owner, mostly my dad and grand father's guns. If
    it means saving one indivudial by me losing my guns in order to keep this
    modern day killing power out of the hands of a nut then so be it. Take them.
    As for what President Obama has done - well even though I don't agree with
    everything in the health care bill, it has given 30+ M more Americans coverage.
    He will sit down and talk with the leaders of the world to help stop the
    threat of a nuke attack. President Obama has accomplished more in this first
    year than most. Of course, no matter what he is able to accomplish for the
    betterment of all Americans it won't be good enough.
    You've talked impeachment - if there was ever anyone to impeach it is those
    in our government who have sworn to serve this country then turn around
    and do what I call acts of treason. They have no right to be a leader be it
    in the senate, congress or governor.
    DB, I'm not trying to be an a.. I truly feel he is trying to fix all the problems
    he can for the average person. I guess if I made over a quarter of a million
    dollars I would feel like he was attacking me. That's not going to happen,
    I've been middle class all my life.
    Do I sometimes question what he's doing - you bet I do. I do it with most
    representatives in government. American's are better than that. We need
    to be able to holds our heads high. Be what our ancestors instilled in us.
    I don't believe the American people would elect someone (no matter what
    side) due to the previous administration. There smarter than that. If they
    truly felt McCain was the man, he would be in. He shot himself in the foot
    when he brought in his running mate. Had he been the man he was ten
    years earlier, I would of voted for him. What has happened to our country ?
    We are making the ding bats famous and wealty plus feel the country would
    be better if they were running it. Thank God the majority of the American
    people see through this.
    With this day and age of the computer, information is at our fingertips. We
    can read and send things all day long if we choose to. Getting an email with
    that is offensive (in any way, not just political) then forwarding it on does
    not make it right. What is great is we can discuss just about everything as
    adults. No need to get pi..ed off at anyone, we're all just normal middle class
    people here. We can agree to disagree with respect for each other.
    ^^^^^Sheeple who hasn't read any legislation. Believes whatever is put in front of him from the MSM.
    That look on my face is not concern, its shock at your utter stupidity!

    Check out Redneckarcher.com. It's an adult archer/hunting site that feels like hunt camp.

  12. #32
    He who eats fuzzy animals pred8er's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TomT View Post
    Man, a good dose of reality will cure this man...
    Logic and reality dictate that although 30 million people need health care coverage it is better to cut them loose rather than take away the rights and earnings of the remaining 270 million who earn their way. The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few. Also too, just because my neighbor, who recently lost his job, cannot afford to feed himself or his wife, I should not take food away from my wife and kids to help him because again, that would be illogical.

    While I don't condone someone forcing religion down anyone else's throat, I will defend to the death someones right to practice their religion as long as it is not destructive to others lives (yes, I've actually sworn and signed my name to defend peoples rights). As a note, most religions have some form of outreach/charity programs to help people who are in the scenarios pointed out above. So while you can live your life according to logic and reason, don't bash someone who choses to have faith in their God. If you do, your as big a looser as the person who shoves religion down your throat.
    That look on my face is not concern, its shock at your utter stupidity!

    Check out Redneckarcher.com. It's an adult archer/hunting site that feels like hunt camp.

  13. #33

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    Quote Originally Posted by TomT View Post
    As ALL religions are nothing but superstitions, as a species we need to abandon them and allow logic to dictate our actions.
    Hopefully this clarifies it for you.
    Prove your statement. I'll still pray for your soul tonight.

  14. #34
    Senior Member Daniel Boone's Avatar
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    Im certianly glad I live in a state that doesnt buy into this President.

    We still believe in Prayer here in the midwest.

    DB
    Elite bows, Vortex Binos, Trophy Taker sights, Carter releases, Goldtip Arrows. CBE sights, Vapor Trail Strings, B Stinger stabilizers

  15. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by pred8er View Post
    Logic and reality dictate that although 30 million people need health care coverage it is better to cut them loose rather than take away the rights and earnings of the remaining 270 million who earn their way. The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few. Also too, just because my neighbor, who recently lost his job, cannot afford to feed himself or his wife, I should not take food away from my wife and kids to help him because again, that would be illogical.

    While I don't condone someone forcing religion down anyone else's throat, I will defend to the death someones right to practice their religion as long as it is not destructive to others lives (yes, I've actually sworn and signed my name to defend peoples rights). As a note, most religions have some form of outreach/charity programs to help people who are in the scenarios pointed out above. So while you can live your life according to logic and reason, don't bash someone who choses to have faith in their God. If you do, your as big a looser as the person who shoves religion down your throat.
    I'm not bashing anybody's religion, or the freedom to practice it. If they want to be deluded, let'em be. Just like Barnum said, "never underestimate the stupidy of the American public."
    I just don't want it in governance, and I'd like to see the tax-exempt status of ALL religious institutions revoked.
    That's only fair, as many run businesses on the side and pay no taxes on property.
    "Render unto Caesar what is Caesar's..."

  16. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by pse 24 View Post
    Prove your statement. I'll still pray for your soul tonight.
    As you can't "prove" the existence of God, I can't "prove" his/her non-existence, it would be futile for me, or anyone else to try.
    I can appeal to your logic by saying that religion exists to explain the inexplicable, and as as man develops the science and technology to explain his environment to a greater degree, he requires the superstitions of older ages less and less, that attempted to explain it by metaphor and fable.
    We all should never lose the ability to wonder at the world, and what it took to create it from primordial particles 14.3 billion years ago.
    I know I haven't ....

  17. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by Daniel Boone View Post
    Im certianly glad I live in a state that doesnt buy into this President.

    We still believe in Prayer here in the midwest.

    DB
    For your consideration:
    http://www.newscientist.com/article/...rs-prayer.html

  18. #38
    Senior Member Daniel Boone's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TomT View Post
    I'm not bashing anybody's religion, or the freedom to practice it. If they want to be deluded, let'em be. Just like Barnum said, "never underestimate the stupidy of the American public."
    I just don't want it in governance, and I'd like to see the tax-exempt status of ALL religious institutions revoked.
    That's only fair, as many run businesses on the side and pay no taxes on property.
    "Render unto Caesar what is Caesar's..."
    So your in favor of eliminating the Constitution and the principals of what built this country. Exactly what Im saying is happening with this President and why I'm against him. Ill stay with the words on are money. In God we Trust!
    Fore Fathers knew exactly what they wanted when they came to this country and were willing to fight for it. I quess we actually could get to the point where fellow americans seek other places to live like are fore fathers. Lord I prayer for future generations.
    DB
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  19. #39

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    Quote Originally Posted by TomT View Post
    As you can't "prove" the existence of God, I can't "prove" his/her non-existence, it would be futile for me, or anyone else to try.
    I can appeal to your logic by saying that religion exists to explain the inexplicable, and as as man develops the science and technology to explain his environment to a greater degree, he requires the superstitions of older ages less and less, that attempted to explain it by metaphor and fable.
    We all should never lose the ability to wonder at the world, and what it took to create it from primordial particles 14.3 billion years ago.
    I know I haven't ....
    I can prove God exist. Your breathing right? TADA!!!

  20. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by Daniel Boone View Post
    So your in favor of eliminating the Constitution and the principals of what built this country. Exactly what Im saying is happening with this President and why I'm against him. Ill stay with the words on are money. In God we Trust!
    Fore Fathers knew exactly what they wanted when they came to this country and were willing to fight for it. I quess we actually could get to the point where fellow americans seek other places to live like are fore fathers. Lord I prayer for future generations.
    DB
    The Constitution states that the government "will not establish any state religion," and guarantees the "right of religious freedom." That means ALL religions, and also the freedom from religion if you wish.
    The Declaration of Independence and the Constitution were drafted and ratified by wealthy white land and slave owners, that didn't recgonize the "rights" of blacks, Indians, women, or non-property owning adults.
    I would suggest that you review the history of these documents and how they were drafted, and you'll see the controversy over "In God We Trust," by the majority of "freethinkers" making up the "forefathers..."

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