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  1. #21
    Senior Member Daniel Boone's Avatar
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    Default Fraud

    Quote Originally Posted by CutTheLoop View Post
    Daniel

    Simply put, one would have to prove intent to defraud.


    Still waiting to hear the reasons why this was a "Scam" from the get-go.

    But, in reality, I think it's a simple case of pinheads letting their mouth write checks, their ass couldn't cash.


    Sadly, stupidity is not against the law.
    FRAUD, they garanteed a purse. So you feel what they did should be allowed and no one should be held accountable. Yes it is a crime. You accepted money with no pay backs. Entry fees and traveling were not cheap. Im surprised that anyone can even debate it not a crime.
    Bottom line its theft because you stole entry fees.
    DB
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  2. #22
    I pray for you! BUNNYMAN's Avatar
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    Default

    There is not a single person here that is saying its not a crime....reading comprehension isn't one of your strong points is it?


    Are you willing to put up your money to prosecute?
    I cut things up and split them down!

  3. #23
    Senior Member CutTheLoop's Avatar
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Daniel Boone View Post
    FRAUD, they garanteed a purse. So you feel what they did should be allowed and no one should be held accountable. Yes it is a crime. You accepted money with no pay backs. Entry fees and traveling were not cheap. Im surprised that anyone can even debate it not a crime.
    Bottom line its theft because you stole entry fees.
    DB
    First off, I'd appreciate if YOU clarify that by using the term "you" after quoting me, you aren't insinuating that "I" accepted money, or "I" stole anything.

    I realize..or at least hope you are interjecting "you" in a general sense.

    For the record, I am in no way, nor have I ever been associated with this event or it's organizers, except to work a couple rounds of 3D shooting.

    With all due respect...you should learn to choose your words more carefully... rumors, speculation and things taken out of context, can spread like wildfire.

    And, I am in now way defending their actions... if you read my post you will see, I plainly stated having to prove their "Intent"(which would be a crime with forethought) stepping on ones @#!^ is stupid yes, but hard to prove as criminal.
    Last edited by CutTheLoop; 10-04-2010 at 10:09 PM.

    ..............................

  4. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Devine Shot View Post
    How is it not a crime.
    It is a crime for sure and there will be action taken. There is a such law proving this is a crime. You can not advertise a competition of any kind that is supposed to pay money and then not pay it. Also there are lawyers that will take cases and not charge you a dime untill you have been paid as long as they know you have a legit case. Trust me. Bout is taking care of alot of it with. He has done a bunch of research and has attorny's involved. Any of the contestants need to get ahold of Bout aka Chris Berry and he will fill you in on the details. All of US contestants owes Bout a big thank you for all he is doing to help out in this case. Thanks again.

    Cuttheloop DB is not trying to step on you toes. I promise you. Hes just takes heart into things like this.
    Jame

  5. #25
    Senior Member Daniel Boone's Avatar
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    Default Hey

    Quote Originally Posted by CutTheLoop View Post
    First off, I'd appreciate if YOU clarify that by using the term "you" after quoting me, you aren't insinuating that "I" accepted money, or "I" stole anything.

    I realize..or at least hope you are interjecting "you" in a general sense.

    For the record, I am in no way, nor have I ever been associated with this event or it's organizers, except to work a couple rounds of 3D shooting.

    With all due respect...you should learn to choose your words more carefully... rumors, speculation and things taken out of context, can spread like wildfire.

    And, I am in now way defending their actions... if you read my post you will see, I plainly stated having to prove their "Intent"(which would be a crime with forethought) stepping on ones @#!^ is stupid yes, but hard to prove as criminal.

    I ask a question when I said you! No where in my post did I mention you envolved. Your post made it sound like you feel they did not try to defraud or ripp anyone off. Im sure your talking about loophole in the law that protect them but for myself its still fraud. Before everyone envolved in the event left that day they knew they had no intent of paying anyone. Thats fraud when you say we will mail you the check. My words are plain and clear. These guys are crooks that lied to the archers before they left that day.
    DB
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  6. #26
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    I think this will be the death blow for wsoa. It was a bad format to begin with, but when wsoa hitched their wagon to the wrong horse(snaf), that may have been a fatal mistake.
    Hoyt Bows, Shrewd sights, Carter index, Tru Ball hinge, Trophy Taker Rest, Doinker Stabilizers, Carbon Express XJ 27's, Vapor Trail Strings, Nikon Binos.

  7. #27
    Senior Member TMax27's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hoyt1945 View Post
    I think this will be the death blow for wsoa. It was a bad format to begin with, but when wsoa hitched their wagon to the wrong horse(snaf), that may have been a fatal mistake.
    Read Micheal B's response to this thread... That's straight from the "horses" mouth.
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  8. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by TMax27 View Post
    Read Micheal B's response to this thread... That's straight from the "horses" mouth.
    Thats kinda what I was thinking.

    So if there is a problem with your local 3D tournament, Mckenzie and Rinehart would be responsible?

  9. #29

    Default My thoughts

    WSOA just got sucked in to this scam as well they were sucked into just like the rest of us.


    They put on a good shoot and I had fun and did good shooting the target.

    I am just sorry this was there first big venture out and than this .......
    Chris Berry (looking for a great bow company)
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  10. #30
    Senior Member Daniel Boone's Avatar
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    Default Amen

    Quote Originally Posted by bout View Post
    WSOA just got sucked in to this scam as well they were sucked into just like the rest of us.


    They put on a good shoot and I had fun and did good shooting the target.

    I am just sorry this was there first big venture out and than this .......
    Sad fact Chris its going to sure hurt future events like this. Archers will start investigated the promotors of the event. Because folks are not going to travel and take a gamble with no garantees in the future.
    Maybe some already realized the scam from the start of this event and thats why the turnout was low. Texas alone you should have drawn 500 archers. When doing an event like this you should advertise payouts are based on shooter turnout or not advertise at all. Law should protect the general public from being scammed. Your only as good as your word and apparently these guys word isnt crap. If these guys didnt have enough money to cover the event and payouts in my opionion that fraud. Now if they advertised payouts were based on shooter turnout then they would be covered. When archers paid there money they entered into a contract.
    DB
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  11. #31
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    Default

    playing devils advocate here, but did the shoot advertise guaranteed purse amounts, if not good luck on collecting anything close to what was advertised. wording is the key to any type of promotional event.

  12. #32
    Senior Member TMax27's Avatar
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    Default

    ba, just looked at the flier, no guaranteed money
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  13. #33
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    The web page says $250,000 in prize money

    If that is not a garantee.......I don't know what is? Does a shooter need to take out an insurance policy before registration? If we were in court right now, I do not think the judge or jury would say,......"but they did not use the word GARANTEE in their advertisements"

    Shooters attended and paid registration believing if they placed thery would win cash.

    http://www.southernnationalarcheryfestival.com/

  14. #34
    Senior Member Daniel Boone's Avatar
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by TMax27 View Post
    ba, just looked at the flier, no guaranteed money
    This is right from the flyer. I see garantee on this several times.

    DB



    Anyone Can Win the $32,000 Grand Prize!
    Regardless of any Score on any Range, many people will make the Semifinals by sheer LUCK. Numerous lucky shots at the Balloon Pop, Draw Poker, and the Genesis Bow Shoots will qualify contestants to the Semifinals. Lucky shots at the Semifinal's Flu-Flu Shoot will guarantee a position(s) in the $128,000, 64-Bracket Final.
    Making it to the Finals, guarantees you a minimum of $500.00.
    The person having the most fun at the Red-Neck Parade, (I know how to have fun!!!) And one persons' name drawn from the hat..., are guaranteed to the $128,000, 64-Bracket Final. More about LUCKY SHOT to Semifinals...
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  15. #35
    Senior Member Daniel Boone's Avatar
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    Default David

    Quote Originally Posted by ba3darcher View Post
    playing devils advocate here, but did the shoot advertise guaranteed purse amounts, if not good luck on collecting anything close to what was advertised. wording is the key to any type of promotional event.
    The word garanteed was used many times.

    Anyone Can Win the $32,000 Grand Prize!
    Regardless of any Score on any Range, many people will make the Semifinals by sheer LUCK. Numerous lucky shots at the Balloon Pop, Draw Poker, and the Genesis Bow Shoots will qualify contestants to the Semifinals. Lucky shots at the Semifinal's Flu-Flu Shoot will guarantee a position(s) in the $128,000, 64-Bracket Final.
    Making it to the Finals, guarantees you a minimum of $500.00.
    The person having the most fun at the Red-Neck Parade, (I know how to have fun!!!) And one persons' name drawn from the hat..., are guaranteed to the $128,000, 64-Bracket Final. More about LUCKY SHOT to Semifinals...
    Elite bows, Vortex Binos, Trophy Taker sights, Carter releases, Goldtip Arrows. CBE sights, Vapor Trail Strings, B Stinger stabilizers

  16. #36
    Senior Member Daniel Boone's Avatar
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    Default Right on

    Quote Originally Posted by Chequamegon View Post
    The web page says $250,000 in prize money

    If that is not a garantee.......I don't know what is? Does a shooter need to take out an insurance policy before registration? If we were in court right now, I do not think the judge or jury would say,......"but they did not use the word GARANTEE in their advertisements"

    Shooters attended and paid registration believing if they placed thery would win cash.

    http://www.southernnationalarcheryfestival.com/
    They accepted everyone cash and if they knew they werent going to pay they should have never taken entry fees or refunded them before the shoot started. If THATS NOT STEALING, i DONT KNOW WHAT IS!
    DB
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  17. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by Daniel Boone View Post
    They accepted everyone cash and if they knew they werent going to pay they should have never taken entry fees or refunded them before the shoot started. If THATS NOT STEALING, i DONT KNOW WHAT IS!
    DB
    OK I am confused (you quoted me)

  18. #38
    Senior Member Daniel Boone's Avatar
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    Default Qouted you

    Quote Originally Posted by Chequamegon View Post
    OK I am confused (you quoted me)
    Im agreeing with you
    DB
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  19. #39
    I pray for you! BUNNYMAN's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chequamegon View Post
    OK I am confused (you quoted me)
    I cut things up and split them down!

  20. #40
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    Ok, let me break this down for you, I looked at the link provided in an earlier post, it does not say $250,000 guaranteed to be given away. it does say "guaranteed to a position in the $128,000.00 in the 64 bracket final" it also says "guaranteed $500.00 if...." Do you see the difference. It does not say guaranteed $128,000.00 in prize money only guaranteed to the bracket of 64. this is what I was getting at in my previous post regarding it is all in how something is worded. It is a common misnomer that just because "guaranteed" is in the publication or flier you are going to get that amount of money.

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