Archery Forums 3DShoots.com
Find Archery Shoots near you  |   Advertise on 3DShoots.com

Go Back   Archery Forums 3DShoots.com > Archery Forum > Bowhunting forum
 

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 08-06-2008, 10:38 PM   #1
jojobama12
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 4
jojobama12 is on a distinguished road
Default rage vs. swacker

if been hearin alot about these swacker broadheads and was wandering if they were any good and if so are they better than the rage broadhead????
jojobama12 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-07-2008, 08:12 PM   #2
Tenderfoot
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 176
Tenderfoot is on a distinguished road
Default reply

Rage heads have problems-Period. I doubt anything could be worse. I want to try the swhacker, but I am going with tried true and unfailing Magnus 2-blade. The swhacker is the same as the old sonoran blades-so see how you like their reviews. Swhacker brand is too new to have many good reviews on the net, yet.
Tenderfoot is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-07-2008, 08:56 PM   #3
Werd
Senior Member
 
Werd's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 1,230
Werd is on a distinguished road
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tenderfoot View Post
Rage heads have problems-Period. I doubt anything could be worse. I want to try the swhacker, but I am going with tried true and unfailing Magnus 2-blade. The swhacker is the same as the old sonoran blades-so see how you like their reviews. Swhacker brand is too new to have many good reviews on the net, yet.
My orings on the rages kept rottin out. Horrible to me. Then they wouldnt stay shut in my quiver. Most wouldn't open when the enter the deer.
__________________
"I have a passion for whitetail deer, not a passion for killing them. The fact that I deer hunt does not make me their enemy, but their guardian."
I play snake
Werd is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-07-2008, 09:03 PM   #4
bowcraze30
Senior Member
 
bowcraze30's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: northern michigan
Posts: 1,304
bowcraze30 is on a distinguished road
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Werd View Post
My orings on the rages kept rottin out. Horrible to me. Then they wouldnt stay shut in my quiver. Most wouldn't open when the enter the deer.
the o rings arent used to keep them shut.
bowcraze30 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-07-2008, 09:10 PM   #5
Werd
Senior Member
 
Werd's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 1,230
Werd is on a distinguished road
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by bowcraze30 View Post
the o rings arent used to keep them shut.
Yes they are? They are used as a shock adsorber, and the blade " slips " under it to keep it locked.
__________________
"I have a passion for whitetail deer, not a passion for killing them. The fact that I deer hunt does not make me their enemy, but their guardian."
I play snake
Werd is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-07-2008, 09:28 PM   #6
Chris
Administrator
 
Chris's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Posts: 4,074
Chris has a reputation beyond reputeChris has a reputation beyond reputeChris has a reputation beyond reputeChris has a reputation beyond reputeChris has a reputation beyond reputeChris has a reputation beyond reputeChris has a reputation beyond reputeChris has a reputation beyond reputeChris has a reputation beyond reputeChris has a reputation beyond reputeChris has a reputation beyond repute
Default

The customers at our shop absolutely love the rage heads, period.
The holes we've seen are incredible. The only bad report we have had was an elk hunt. When I grilled him on it, he said it was shot in the neck. Yep, that's a broadhead problem for sure.
__________________
Chris Christenson - Admin
3DShoots.com - Find Archery Shoots near you
ObsessionArchery.com - Archery Supplies
Chris is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-08-2008, 12:02 AM   #7
I missed
Senior Member
 
I missed's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Traverse city, Michigan
Posts: 564
I missed is on a distinguished road
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Werd View Post
Yes they are? They are used as a shock adsorber, and the blade " slips " under it to keep it locked.
what are you talking about!!!
it is used as a shock absorber the blades lock into place
__________________
Parker Hornet 28" 70#
easton epic 400gr. RAGE 2 blade
I missed is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-22-2010, 09:08 AM   #8
jungoee1
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: oklahoma
Posts: 1
jungoee1 is on a distinguished road
Default extra orings are replacements!!!!!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Werd View Post
Yes they are? They are used as a shock adsorber, and the blade " slips " under it to keep it locked.
Alot of ppl take the extra o rings and put them around the blades,dont do that they are replacements!!!!!.if you take a rage out of the package it will open if you push it thru a peice of paper!if it dont open thru a deer it shouldnt open at all!!,they put something together wrong!!!ive shot 13 deer with rage never had a problem.
jungoee1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-16-2009, 12:39 PM   #9
'SIN'ERGY
Senior Member
 
'SIN'ERGY's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Reading PA
Posts: 1,143
'SIN'ERGY is on a distinguished road
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Werd View Post
My orings on the rages kept rottin out. Horrible to me. Then they wouldnt stay shut in my quiver. Most wouldn't open when the enter the deer.
That's because you missed the deer remember??
__________________
SAVE A BUCK--SHOOT AN OUTFITTER
'SIN'ERGY is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-13-2008, 12:24 PM   #10
Tenderfoot
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 176
Tenderfoot is on a distinguished road
Default reply

Hey, I was just watching Hank Parker 3D TV. His son shot a big old buck through the liver on a quartering shot and lodged the swhacker in the vitals...but the arrow only penetrated about half way down the shaft. It entered from behind the ribs which should have been a very soft shot. It was at 30 yards(they said). If he didn't bust any bones, why did it only go so shallow? The deer died, but the swacker did not go deep. They look iffy. It performed, but I doubt the broadhead after seeing that.
Tenderfoot is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-19-2008, 10:26 PM   #11
OrthoPT
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Prescott, Az
Posts: 132
OrthoPT is on a distinguished road
Default

The swacker broadhead is the current sonoran broadhead made here in Az. I just got off the phone with Rick the Owner of Sonoran and they combined companies to form Swacker. The 2 blade broadhead is held together in flight with shrink tubing and the blades are made in germany and are super sharp. I shot a deer with the broadhead at 42 yds and he went approx. 20ft before expiring. They fly very well and are a well made broadhead with thick blades. If you want to buy some go on to sonoran broadhead site and buy the 2 blade 100 or 125 gr head. The design of the head will not change only the company name. The change should take place by mid fall ie. Nov or Dec.
Hope this clears things up and give the sonoran/swacker head a try you will not be dissatisfied.
__________________
Hoyt Maxxis 35
Hoyt Carbon Matrix
Vapor Trail Strings Pro Staff
Mile High Archery
OrthoPT is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-20-2008, 12:09 PM   #12
scottg
Huntin Junkie
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Franklinton. La
Posts: 438
scottg is on a distinguished road
Default

O rings on the rage are easily replaced and pretty cheap. Things do wear out and need to be replaced. Also, anything mechanical that can malfunction, will malfunction at some point.

I guess that if one shot out of 50 does not open and only wound the deer, that is still better than 5 out of 50 with a fixed blade. There is no such thing that a perfect boradhead or bow. If there was, that is all that anyone would own. I think that the Rage is still a bit better than the pointed rock that was used 150 years ago.
__________________
Introduce a kid to the outdoors, the American way depends on it

If you can read this, thank a teacher
If you can read this in english, thank a soldier.

08 82nd Airborne, 29" - 60 lbs - 300 fps
Octane Hostage Pro
Octane quiver
G5 XR .019 sights, Meta peep
Sims S-coil
Carbon Force Radial X-weav, Rage 3-blade - 390 grn

06 Tribute, 27.5" - 284 fps
scottg is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-21-2008, 03:10 PM   #13
red man
Senior Member
 
red man's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: in a house
Posts: 195
red man is on a distinguished road
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by jojobama12 View Post
if been hearin alot about these swacker broadheads and was wandering if they were any good and if so are they better than the rage broadhead????
is there any where you can get the swacker BH besides of the tv
__________________
Scott's string-staff shooter
hunters hand-staff shooter
Higley's Archery- shooter
2008 Mathews Switchback XT
Mathews Ovation blubbery
red man is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-14-2009, 09:27 PM   #14
dreco
dreco
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: GR Michigan
Posts: 1
dreco is on a distinguished road
Default Mechanical vs. Fixed Broadheads

I am perfectly satisfied with shooting G5 Montecs, and see no advantage to mechanicals of any brand.

I only shoot animals standing broadside within 30 yards, and 1 1/16" entrance and exit holes are sufficient for producing good blood trails. They are dependable, fly accurate, I have complete confidence and proven performance. What more does one need?

dreco

Last edited by dreco; 08-14-2009 at 09:29 PM. Reason: spelling correction
dreco is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-15-2009, 10:48 PM   #15
Breck
Senior Member
 
Breck's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: River ridge la.
Posts: 171
Breck is on a distinguished road
Default

I purchased a pack of the rage heads and test shot them sometimes they would open sometimes not. I agree some expandable's will leave a nasty hole.

If you want to be 100% sure that you expandable will open get the old style Vortec expandable head It will open no matter what They come in a plane cardboard package.

They are very tough I have shot several deer with these and the hole is more brutal than anything out there. They make them in different flavors.

I posted this a few times seems like no one wants to listen.

There is too much mechanical movement of the Rage blades one blade get's binded on the other.

Get a Vortec and be done with it. No more problems.

Last edited by Breck; 08-15-2009 at 11:03 PM.
Breck is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-16-2009, 08:56 AM   #16
Chris
Administrator
 
Chris's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Posts: 4,074
Chris has a reputation beyond reputeChris has a reputation beyond reputeChris has a reputation beyond reputeChris has a reputation beyond reputeChris has a reputation beyond reputeChris has a reputation beyond reputeChris has a reputation beyond reputeChris has a reputation beyond reputeChris has a reputation beyond reputeChris has a reputation beyond reputeChris has a reputation beyond repute
Default

As someone that owns a bow shop, I've heard more tall tales on broadheads than you could imagine. You name it, I've heard it.

I'll tell you this, I'm shooting rage until I prove to myself that it doesn't work. So far, I don't see that happening.

You can't blame a broadhead on a poor shot, period.
__________________
Chris Christenson - Admin
3DShoots.com - Find Archery Shoots near you
ObsessionArchery.com - Archery Supplies
Chris is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-16-2009, 03:45 PM   #17
killbambidead
bambi killer
 
killbambidead's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Red bud il
Posts: 733
killbambidead is on a distinguished road
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris View Post
As someone that owns a bow shop, I've heard more tall tales on broadheads than you could imagine. You name it, I've heard it.

I'll tell you this, I'm shooting rage until I prove to myself that it doesn't work. So far, I don't see that happening.

You can't blame a broadhead on a poor shot, period.
i agree 100% with you there
killbambidead is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-16-2009, 06:44 PM   #18
J.Blay
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Buckley, Michigan
Posts: 671
J.Blay is on a distinguished road
Default

I read that Rage redesigned the 3 blade models because the front shoulders of the blades were too rounded and sometimes wouldn't open. I took 4 for 4 last year with my 2 blade versions without a problem. 3 things I ALWAYS do with any mechanical broadhead. First I inspect and move all working parts of the broadhead. I don't use what seems less than perfect. Second, I sharpen even new blades. The cut on contact tip on a new Rage is dull. Third, I disassemble, scald, scrub, and resharpen before reuse. Any tallow left behind can cause problems.
J.Blay is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-16-2009, 02:39 PM   #19
Lavaca Co. Ranch TX
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 1
Lavaca Co. Ranch TX is on a distinguished road
Default swacker

I have taken several deer with the swacker broadhead. Great bool trails, entry/exit holes. Rage cannot touch them. I have pics for examples...
Attached Images
File Type: jpg hunt 010.jpg (36.5 KB, 968 views)
Lavaca Co. Ranch TX is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-18-2009, 10:24 AM   #20
NJbowhunter16
whitetail slayer
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Jackson NJ
Posts: 9
NJbowhunter16 is on a distinguished road
Default swahckers

I just started shooting swahkers this season. I shot a doe quartering away hard at about 25yards. the arrow hit her in the last rib and came out through the opposite shoulder and stuckk into the ground. She plowed about 40 yards and went down. The entrance and exit whole on her was huge. You could not piss the blood trail. I am deffinitly going to keep shooting the swahckers
NJbowhunter16 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-20-2009, 11:41 PM   #21
Jingaling
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 26
Jingaling is on a distinguished road
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by NJbowhunter16 View Post
I just started shooting swahkers this season. I shot a doe quartering away hard at about 25yards. the arrow hit her in the last rib and came out through the opposite shoulder and stuckk into the ground. She plowed about 40 yards and went down. The entrance and exit whole on her was huge. You could not piss the blood trail. I am deffinitly going to keep shooting the swahckers
That has got to be the stupidest thing I have ever heard!!! so your telling us that you put it quatering away shot and it came out through her shoulder??? Have you ever shot a deer and know how hard it is to go through a shoulder!! Matbe you were using a rifle instead!
Jingaling is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-21-2009, 06:44 PM   #22
NJbowhunter16
whitetail slayer
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Jackson NJ
Posts: 9
NJbowhunter16 is on a distinguished road
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jingaling View Post
That has got to be the stupidest thing I have ever heard!!! so your telling us that you put it quatering away shot and it came out through her shoulder??? Have you ever shot a deer and know how hard it is to go through a shoulder!! Matbe you were using a rifle instead!
look at the picture i posted that is the exit wound your trying to tell me thats not the shoulder?
NJbowhunter16 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-21-2009, 08:15 PM   #23
killbambidead
bambi killer
 
killbambidead's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Red bud il
Posts: 733
killbambidead is on a distinguished road
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jingaling View Post
That has got to be the stupidest thing I have ever heard!!! so your telling us that you put it quatering away shot and it came out through her shoulder??? Have you ever shot a deer and know how hard it is to go through a shoulder!! Matbe you were using a rifle instead!
i blew through the top of the front shoulder and the back shoulder on a doe with my rage 3 blades
killbambidead is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-18-2009, 10:31 AM   #24
NJbowhunter16
whitetail slayer
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Jackson NJ
Posts: 9
NJbowhunter16 is on a distinguished road
Default x-systems

I have not heard many good things about rage from a few guys i know that shoot them. But i do know of a new broadhead that is probably worse and i would not recommend to anyone. The new X-systems from crimson talon. They look like they would shoot good and leave a big hole. But once you go to shoot them they fly horrible. They shoot about 8inches different then my feild points. They are simply not accurate at all.
NJbowhunter16 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-18-2009, 10:43 AM   #25
NJbowhunter16
whitetail slayer
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Jackson NJ
Posts: 9
NJbowhunter16 is on a distinguished road
Default Swahcker wound on doe

opening day doe shot with swahcker
Attached Images
File Type: jpg downsized_0912091711.jpg (58.0 KB, 933 views)
NJbowhunter16 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-18-2009, 10:48 AM   #26
NJbowhunter16
whitetail slayer
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Jackson NJ
Posts: 9
NJbowhunter16 is on a distinguished road
Default grim reaper

If you can not find your broadheads anywhere. you might want to look at the grim reaper razorcuts they are similer to your broadheads.
NJbowhunter16 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-18-2009, 11:17 AM   #27
armyof1
JBK BOWSTRINS,DCAP staff
 
armyof1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: kansas
Posts: 490
armyof1 is on a distinguished road
Default thanks

thanks for the heads up but i am looking for 2 blade design
armyof1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-18-2009, 12:57 PM   #28
NJbowhunter16
whitetail slayer
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Jackson NJ
Posts: 9
NJbowhunter16 is on a distinguished road
Default 2 blades

the swahckers are 2 blade and work very good. i would recommend them
NJbowhunter16 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-23-2009, 06:10 PM   #29
deerslayer17
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: new jersey
Posts: 1
deerslayer17 is on a distinguished road
Default swacker is better

i know people who have shot deer at 20 yards and have not gotten pass throughs with the rage expandables. With the swackers however, you dont always get pass throughs but they leave a 2'' cutting diameter soo must of our deer dont run more than 40 yds. They are also much cheaper
deerslayer17 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-27-2010, 07:22 PM   #30
BowhuntnHoosier
Bisquit.......
 
BowhuntnHoosier's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Hoosierville
Posts: 13,882
BowhuntnHoosier has a spectacular aura aboutBowhuntnHoosier has a spectacular aura aboutBowhuntnHoosier has a spectacular aura about
Default

From all the huntin shows on TV I would say nothing is as good as a RAGE.
__________________


"HONDA"
BowhuntnHoosier is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-10-2012, 04:07 PM   #31
AKbowhunter38
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 1
AKbowhunter38 is on a distinguished road
Default Rage

I took a Kodiak Brown bear in 2008 with a 100gn Rage broad head from about 6 yards. Had a clean pass through and the bear went about 70 yards. In 2011 I took an Illinois white tail from a tree stand about 23 yards. Once again, had a clean pass through and the deer went about 40 feet. From what Ive seen, Rage hits kill faster than Swhackers.
AKbowhunter38 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-10-2012, 05:53 PM   #32
OneMustFall
Member
 
OneMustFall's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Oklahoma
Posts: 796
OneMustFall is on a distinguished road
Default

Ive never used a swacker before but i have used rage 2-3 blade with great success.they make a huge hole and massive blood trails.
Never had any open in quiver or any other odd ball stuff,very good broad head.
OneMustFall is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-10-2012, 08:47 PM   #33
red44
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: South East Massachusetts
Posts: 2,340
red44 has a spectacular aura aboutred44 has a spectacular aura aboutred44 has a spectacular aura about
Default

I will never use a Rage head. They took an old friend (snyper/gator), whored it out by throwing tons of money in advertising at it, even when we have all seen the lack of penetration on TV. That and the fact that like the original snyper they are a 1 and done head. I mostly hate the $$ thrown at it to make us think(cyber brain wash) it's the best head. They will never get a dime from me. Hope they choke to death. Barre/Rocky Mountain, for shame, you let a good cat out of the bag and allowed it to pimped. Hope you enjoy the money. Did this sound to personal? I hate this kind of **** and we see it in every product in our lives. cars to dish soap.
__________________
FBSA Member
red44 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-10-2012, 08:59 PM   #34
rage-it
Senior Member
 
rage-it's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Posts: 1,061
rage-it is on a distinguished road
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by red44 View Post
I will never use a Rage head. They took an old friend (snyper/gator), whored it out by throwing tons of money in advertising at it, even when we have all seen the lack of penetration on TV. That and the fact that like the original snyper they are a 1 and done head. I mostly hate the $$ thrown at it to make us think(cyber brain wash) it's the best head. They will never get a dime from me. Hope they choke to death. Barre/Rocky Mountain, for shame, you let a good cat out of the bag and allowed it to pimped. Hope you enjoy the money. Did this sound to personal? I hate this kind of **** and we see it in every product in our lives. cars to dish soap.
Every deer I have shot with the rage heads went right threw them my set up this year is

Elite hunter bow set on 65 lbs
Easton FMJ they are 427 grains

Outdoor Hub mobile, the outdoor information engine
rage-it is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-10-2012, 09:36 PM   #35
red44
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: South East Massachusetts
Posts: 2,340
red44 has a spectacular aura aboutred44 has a spectacular aura aboutred44 has a spectacular aura about
Default

I'm happy for you, honestly. I just can't.
I'm still using a older/slower Mathews than your Elite, and 57-60 lbs approximately. (no scale)
I just hate the marketing/money hype. They bought the rights to a good working head, made it worse (IMO) and paid alot of people to use it, to sell it to us. That's where I'm at, right or wrong, I will never use one. Paid pimps selling us a lesser head IMO.
__________________
FBSA Member
red44 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-10-2012, 09:43 PM   #36
rage-it
Senior Member
 
rage-it's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Posts: 1,061
rage-it is on a distinguished road
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by red44 View Post
I'm happy for you, honestly. I just can't.
I'm still using a older/slower Mathews than your Elite, and 57-60 lbs approximately. (no scale)
I just hate the marketing/money hype. They bought the rights to a good working head, made it worse (IMO) and paid alot of people to use it, to sell it to us. That's where I'm at, right or wrong, I will never use one. Paid pimps selling us a lesser head IMO.
I understand what your saying. IMO there are alot if good heads out there its just whatever you want to shoot

Outdoor Hub mobile, the outdoor information engine
rage-it is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-17-2012, 08:29 PM   #37
wilkersonhunter
In God we trust
 
wilkersonhunter's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: in gods country
Posts: 1,246
wilkersonhunter is on a distinguished road
Default

I've shot the rage 2 blade for 2 years now and everything I've shot I've recovered in less than a 100yds. I like them and I will continue to use them

Outdoor Hub mobile, the outdoor information engine
__________________
truball shooting staff
2012 pse dreamseason evo 6
member of the 160" 8ptr club
[/COLOR]Treelimb quivers best out there
treelimb quivers and sword sights pro staff
wilkersonhunter is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-18-2012, 02:32 AM   #38
Buckslayer24
Aim small Miss small
 
Buckslayer24's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: central Arkansas
Posts: 28
Buckslayer24 is on a distinguished road
Default

I guess I'll stop shooting rage 2 blades when the deer stop falling inside 75 yds.

Stop taking crappy shots, and you will stop getting crappy results.
__________________
Apparently "i'm sorry" and "my bad" mean the same thing, except at a funeral.
Buckslayer24 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 08:15 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Copyright 2004 3DShoots.com