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Old 04-02-2008, 05:03 PM   #1
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Default Bow hunter safety course *read complete post please*

I attended a two day course for a total of twelve hours with my 11yr old and my 15yr old. I did not need to take the course but as a matter of support did so. It is required in the state of Maine that you take this course in order to hunt with a bow at any age unless you are grandfathered. I fall into that catagory. I am happy to say that both of my boys passed the test with a 96 for my 15yr old and a 86 for my 11yr old. Now when they turn sixteen they can hunt on there own instead of having to be in eye shot of me.
I learned allot about the state that bow hunting and gun hunting is in. Numbers have been declining dramatically over the years and we had a good conversation with a game warden as to why. The game warden was very outspoken and concerned about this and asked the class of 40+ why. People spoke of video games, lack of father figure, interst in general dropping off etc.
The warden mentioned that they have a program during the summer that has kids and parents come to a local fish and game club to try archery, fishing, all terrain vehicles, rifle range and clay pigeons. Interest in 2002 was overwhelming with over 250 kids showing up to enjoy the day. In fact we had to turn them away! They each got a hot dog, cheesburger, soda along with a goody bag from Kittery Trading Post and LLBean that included a hat and a tshirt all for free! Last year the numbers have declined to 40 to 50 participants! What do you think is going on? I told the warden that I would post it to this group as I know you will and can provide feedback. Pennsylvania runs 40 to 50 of these events a year with great success. Advertising for this event is done in our local papers and postings at all the fish and game clubs in our area along with stores and post offices.
What do ya think?
After sending I just saw the "going down thread" sorry!
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Last edited by my3sons&I; 04-02-2008 at 05:06 PM. Reason: Just saw the "going down thread" sorry!
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Old 04-02-2008, 06:10 PM   #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by my3sons&I View Post
I attended a two day course for a total of twelve hours with my 11yr old and my 15yr old. I did not need to take the course but as a matter of support did so. It is required in the state of Maine that you take this course in order to hunt with a bow at any age unless you are grandfathered. I fall into that catagory. I am happy to say that both of my boys passed the test with a 96 for my 15yr old and a 86 for my 11yr old. Now when they turn sixteen they can hunt on there own instead of having to be in eye shot of me.
I learned allot about the state that bow hunting and gun hunting is in. Numbers have been declining dramatically over the years and we had a good conversation with a game warden as to why. The game warden was very outspoken and concerned about this and asked the class of 40+ why. People spoke of video games, lack of father figure, interst in general dropping off etc.
The warden mentioned that they have a program during the summer that has kids and parents come to a local fish and game club to try archery, fishing, all terrain vehicles, rifle range and clay pigeons. Interest in 2002 was overwhelming with over 250 kids showing up to enjoy the day. In fact we had to turn them away! They each got a hot dog, cheesburger, soda along with a goody bag from Kittery Trading Post and LLBean that included a hat and a tshirt all for free! Last year the numbers have declined to 40 to 50 participants! What do you think is going on? I told the warden that I would post it to this group as I know you will and can provide feedback. Pennsylvania runs 40 to 50 of these events a year with great success. Advertising for this event is done in our local papers and postings at all the fish and game clubs in our area along with stores and post offices.
What do ya think?
After sending I just saw the "going down thread" sorry!
Were living in a different time. When I was a kid we played basketball, baseball, football and hunted all the time. We were always outside in the yard or in the woods. Most family houses around here you can drive by and unless the kids are getting on the bus ya don't know they even exist. There busy with all the after school activities, video games, the internet, 200 channels on the TV, and cell phones. We didn't have all of that stuff when I was a kid... I would blame it on the Parents but my Dad never took me hunting. So that really didn't stop me from loving to hunt but I did have some grown ups that loved to take me hunting with them. I have taken a young fellar with me for the last 4 years or so gun hunting. He is in band and his band practice eats up most of the Archery season so he doesn't really hunt until gun season.
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Old 04-02-2008, 06:30 PM   #3
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Unfortanaly what you are typing this thread on has alot to do with it. Mo. has some outdoordays for kids but the hardly ever advertise it and I usally here about it on the Monday after.
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Old 04-02-2008, 07:02 PM   #4
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The biggest thing killing the sport here is land access...
we have some youth interest, but it's getting less and less...it's hard enough to get them to go outside let alone sit in the woods or a boat for an afternoon...

also alot of them in this area are brought up believing that hunting is just another form of murder...or all guns are bad.
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Old 04-02-2008, 07:18 PM   #5
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Does Maine have an apprentice hunter program. A study was done and the hunter ed requirement was a problem in getting kids interested. (not saying the other issues raised aren't part of it as well) The program lets the novice go with a licensed hunter with the thinking being once they're interested then they won't mind taking the course. Several states have done something along these lines.
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Old 04-02-2008, 07:32 PM   #6
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In NY the law makers don't want kids to hunt. Kids can't hunt big game with a gun until they are 16. Bow is 14. But most kids are not confident enough with a bow yet by that age to take a deer or spend the countless hours in the Adirondack elements to get the 20 yard shot that they should have with their smaller bows. But back to the point, kids used to go to hunting camp with dad but these days dads don't dare take them because the fines are terrible and until they are 16 kids are not allowed by law in the woods during big game season. Even the junior bow hunter are only allowed to hunt during the early special season.
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Old 04-02-2008, 07:42 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dbdcougar View Post
Does Maine have an apprentice hunter program. A study was done and the hunter ed requirement was a problem in getting kids interested. (not saying the other issues raised aren't part of it as well) The program lets the novice go with a licensed hunter with the thinking being once they're interested then they won't mind taking the course. Several states have done something along these lines.
We do of some sorts. All children between the ages of 10 and 15 have a day dedicated to them during deer/bird season that they can go hunt with a licensed hunter. After the deer season opens the following week they must buy a jr. license "cheap" in order to continue. At all times the child must be accompanied, within arms reach of the hunting guardian. As much as I would like to have them drive the deer to me The hunter ed program has been simplified so that you really don't need to study. The classroom time gives you everything you need for the test at the end of the day. When I took it back in 81 it was as if you were studying for a final exam. The 10 gun commandments were mandatory that you knew them. It was on the test.
When I took the gun exam with my boys this year it was multiple choice and the correct answers was so obvious it was hard to go wrong.
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Old 04-02-2008, 08:22 PM   #8
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heres another twist fellars
alot of the tv and video programing are anti killing and they have for years had the animals talking to us as if they were humans to name a few of the attempts to destroy the need for guns and the such to promote and idealistic peace state.
were are living in a very differnt sociteity from the years passed when hunting was tha cool thing and passed doew from your father or a big bro figgure.
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Old 04-02-2008, 09:23 PM   #9
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ALL reasons given are 100% true.....
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Old 04-02-2008, 09:35 PM   #10
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Smokes makes a good point about tv and movies being anti-hunting. Has anyone on here paid good money to take their kids to see "Open Season"? The animated kids movie about the one antlered buck and the bear who is raised by a park ranger and released into the wild. They have to avoid all the big bad slob hunters who are out to kill all the precious and intelligent wildlife that is in the forest. The arch villian of the movie is a big old redneck hunter who wants to kill every animal he sees.

My dad used to say that if you shouldn't spend your money on movies, books or video games that contain things you disagree with because that only makes the writer's or manufacturer's make more of the same. I have a tendency (now that I am old enough to understand what he was saying) to agree with him. It's not just that one movie either, it's in almost every Disney movie ever made.

There is another site who's initials are the first and twentieth letters that had a post about companies and celebreties who support PETA or anti-hunting propaganda and how we as hunters should boycott those people and not put our hard earned cash into their pockets. If I remember right, that list was pretty long.
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Old 04-02-2008, 09:38 PM   #11
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Originally Posted by pred8er View Post
Smokes makes a good point about tv and movies being anti-hunting. Has anyone on here paid good money to take their kids to see "Open Season"? The animated kids movie about the one antlered buck and the bear who is raised by a park ranger and released into the wild. They have to avoid all the big bad slob hunters who are out to kill all the precious and intelligent wildlife that is in the forest. The arch villian of the movie is a big old redneck hunter who wants to kill every animal he sees.

My dad used to say that if you shouldn't spend your money on movies, books or video games that contain things you disagree with because that only makes the writer's or manufacturer's make more of the same. I have a tendency (now that I am old enough to understand what he was saying) to agree with him. It's not just that one movie either, it's in almost every Disney movie ever made.

There is another site who's initials are the first and twentieth letters that had a post about companies and celebreties who support PETA or anti-hunting propaganda and how we as hunters should boycott those people and not put our hard earned cash into their pockets. If I remember right, that list was pretty long.
Preach it brother
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Old 04-02-2008, 09:48 PM   #12
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Here is some info on companies and celebs who when you buy their product or pay money to see their movies, you put money into their pockets and thus indirectly into the anti-hunting campaigns:

Many celebrities have helped The HSUS and our efforts to protect animals. And all of them have at least two traits in common: they're animal friendly and willing to demonstrate their support for The HSUS.
Thanks to every one!

Animal Friendly Celebrities:

Maria Conchita Alonso
Bea Arthur (Halt Hog Factories)
Ed Asner (Providing for Your Pet's Future)
Alec Baldwin (Choosing A Humane Diet, Halt Hog Factories)
Ed Begley, Jr. (Animals In Research, Halt Hog Factories)
Shari Belafonte (Fur Free Century)
Jessica Biel (First Strike)
Elayne Boosler (First Strike, Fur Free Century)
Berk Breathed (Fur Free Holidays, Karakul Lamb)
Ron Burns (Artist in Residence)
Dixie Carter (Fur Free Century)
Mary Chapin Carpenter (Fur Free Century)
James Cromwell (Halt Hog Factories)
Jenna Elfman (Fur Free Holidays, Pets For Life)
Mike Farrell (Animals In Research, Karakul Lamb)
David Foley (Fur Free Holidays)
Sara Gilbert (Animals In Research)
Bill Goldberg (Animal Fighting, Farm Animals, First Strike)
Whoopi Goldberg (First Strike)
Cathy Guisewite (Karakul Lamb)
Steve Guttenberg (First Strike)
Anne Heche (Fur Free Holidays)
Tippi Hedren (First Strike, Fur Free Century, Halt Hog Factories, Karakul Lamb)
Anjelica Huston (narrated public service announcement)
Kevin James (Fur Free Holidays)
Diane Keaton (Fur Free Holidays)
Vicki Lewis (Fur Free Holidays)
Ali MacGraw (Equine Issues, First Strike, Karakul Lamb)
Bill Maher (First Strike, Fur Free Holidays, Spay/Neuter)
Dave Matthews (First Strike, Fur Free Holidays, Halt Hog Factories)
Peter and Mary Max (Halt Hog Factories)
Rue McClanahan (Animals In Research, Equine Issues, First Strike)
Patrick McDonnell (Fur Free Century, National Animal Shelter Appreciation Week)
Mandy Moore (First Strike)
Mary Tyler Moore (Animals In Research, Equine Issues, First Strike, Karakul Lamb)
Frankie Muniz (First Strike)
Kevin Nealon (Animals In Research, Fur Free Century)
Alexandra Paul (Halt Hog Factories, Karakul Lamb)
Victoria Principal (Animals In Research)
Leah Remini (Fur Free Holidays)
Christina Ricci (First Strike)
Ally Sheedy (Halt Hog Factories)
Alicia Silverstone (Fur Free Holidays)
Britney Spears (Fur Free Century, First Strike)
Jerry Stiller (Fur Free Holidays)
Maura Tierney (Fur Free Holidays)
Joan Van Ark (Fur Free Century)
Betty White (Fur Free Holidays, First Strike)
Montel Williams (Disaster, First Strike, Safe Cats)
Robin Williams (Tuna/Dolphin)

and some links to other sites that list more of the same:

http://www.animalrights.net/archives...html#people-ar

http://www.activistcash.com/index_celebrities.cfm

Sorry if it looks or feels like I hijacked the thread, but these are the influences that kids today have and they are the people kids look up to. Without strong parents and family values, both of which support outdoor and hunting/fishing activities, kids will get their values from the people on these lists.
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Old 04-02-2008, 10:04 PM   #13
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a Lot of things go into kids not wanting to go hunting as well, min age of 12 to deer hunt, access, TIME both for parents & kids to go, here in CA, i have a hard time trying to take my son to hunt, he wants to use a gun cause its easier, no problem, except here there are a lot of weekend warriors who think they can hold a gun sideways & shoot a deer cause thats what they see in the movies & TV .

better safe than sorry, I am happier having a chubby little kid VS a hunting partner in my family. its just the way it is here in CA, way too many idiots
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Old 04-02-2008, 11:00 PM   #14
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Smile Last of the conservation hunters

There have been some great points made. I grew up hunting the Ozark mountains, worked for the MO dept of conservation for a few years while I went to Mizzou, and now live in Australia. I was raised as a hunter with strong conservation values...my youngest brother is not part of the hunting generation.
  1. A big part of the difference is video games. Video games are entertaining, addictive, and much more thrilling than anything I grew up with (in terms of turn key entertainment). Instant gratification is gained from video games and that's the modern thing...the instant part.
  2. Hunting framed as unsportsmanlike and the realm of the bloodthirsty versus being framed as necessary for responsible conservation. Hunter mags with people broadly grinning as they stand atop a fallen lion or patting a dead polar bear on the ear hasn't helped the bloodthirsty image. In truth, as a conservation hunter, I'm very very put off by killing predators. Conservation is on people's minds today, especially younger people, and that kind of senseless waste is out of fashion.
  3. Land and laws. I remember being able to practice archery in my back yard and hunt on the farm land around my home town (it was small). Both are now illegal. The first because of city ordinance, and the second because those farmers are now accountable if I go out and shoot someone on their land. They don't want the risk, so they don't let people hunt their land anymore. That means any public land is WAY over hunted. I shot a 4 point buck one year that ran a total of 30 yards before dropping. As it tumbled down the hill another hunter shot it twice (I THINK he might have hit it) and was dressing it before I got to him. I never hunted public land again...and only got to hunt on relatives' land after that. Not many people have a relative with a couple thousand acres to hunt.
  4. Money. Hunting, fishing, and camping were once quite cheap for vacations. Of course you could never really justify deer hunting as an "investment" because venison would cost about $100 a pound if that were the case. Still, it has gotten a lot more expensive and requires a lot of something that's much more valuable to fast paced society...time. When I hunted close to where I lived it didn't take much time to scout the area after work each day...or weekend...but when you have to drive 5 hours to a good hunting location...you only get your limited vacation time (and your chances of success if you only have two or three days on the hunt is greatly diminished).
  5. Finally, and I think this is mentioned, it's busy parents. Busy parents that work very long days have less time to drag Junior along to learn first hand about the circle of life. Kids don't want to know that their hamburger once had a face and that their Nike's used to keep their burger warm. It's unpleasant without full understanding and appreciation....and most parents don't take the time to teach their kids to restrain their desire to shoot each other...much less the value of conservation.
As for depictions of cute animals getting into children's hearts...well...that's not one I'd buy. My gen had Bambi and Thumper and a lot of others and it never impacted me.

** The opinions above are mine at the moment and are subject to revision or change without notice or penalty **
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Old 04-03-2008, 03:44 AM   #15
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jk, I was offered orders to CA and told the detailer to blow off, there was no way I was moving out there with all the draconian laws. Everyone I talk to says it's not that bad, but they have some very restrictive laws (don't let you child even look at a gun until he/she is like 21). Depending on where you are in CA, public land is limited isn't it? I think up north has a lot, but down around the LA/SD area I heard it almost all private.

Dooby, You hit the nail on the head with the "instant gratification" thing!!! But I have to disagree witht the not hunting predators part only in that they are like anyother animal out there, their numbers need to be controlled to limit impact on human/animal interaction (OK, maybe not polar bears to the same degree as say wolves or coyotes, but they do interact with humans sometimes).
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Old 04-03-2008, 04:16 AM   #16
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...hunting predators part...numbers need to be controlled...wolves
Paying $2000 to $4000 to hunt lions, grizzly bears, etc. is not sporting, nor it it necessary to control populations. Almost any large predator you can think of has dwindling numbers or are already on the brink. As long as there are climbing numbers or grazer animals out there...predators aren't in over supply.

One I find somewhat acceptable out here, however, is the hunting of one of their most destructive and abundant predators...the feral cat (i.e. we used to call them barn cats back home...but they don't live in barns).

On that, I'll leave well enough alone. I believe in hunting food and many others believe in hunting for the fun of killing stuff. I've learned to be tolerant.
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Old 04-03-2008, 04:46 AM   #17
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Don't know anything about the large preditors out west but the preditors around here are all the yotes. They certainly need thinned out.
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Old 04-04-2008, 01:10 AM   #18
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All I can do is my part to bring this great sport to my son. He has a cell phone, plays a ton of video games etc,etc but I gave him my MQ1 and hooked up his buddy (who's father tragically passed away) with an Hoyt. They practice archery and hunt. My son had some awsome close incounters and his buddy connected on a nice doe last season (their first). We need to bring people in one at a time.

Land access is the biggest problem we are facing in my opinion. Do what you can for you and yours to get your own and then share it with others.
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Old 04-04-2008, 04:23 AM   #19
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Land access is the biggest problem we are facing in my opinion. Do what you can for you and yours to get your own and then share it with others.
Just be aware that in some states permitted hunters on your and are your liability. Just check with your insurance company (yea, it's petty, but lawyers feed on nice guys).
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Old 04-04-2008, 05:57 AM   #20
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I wonder if any of this has anything to do with the fact that we are a nation of workaholics. I see a lot of people that don't make time for their kids, the let the tv watch them instead of spending time with their kids.
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Old 04-04-2008, 06:12 PM   #21
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Originally Posted by pred8er View Post
jk, I was offered orders to CA and told the detailer to blow off, there was no way I was moving out there with all the draconian laws. Everyone I talk to says it's not that bad, but they have some very restrictive laws (don't let you child even look at a gun until he/she is like 21). Depending on where you are in CA, public land is limited isn't it? I think up north has a lot, but down around the LA/SD area I heard it almost all private.

Dooby, You hit the nail on the head with the "instant gratification" thing!!! But I have to disagree witht the not hunting predators part only in that they are like anyother animal out there, their numbers need to be controlled to limit impact on human/animal interaction (OK, maybe not polar bears to the same degree as say wolves or coyotes, but they do interact with humans sometimes).

yes, land here is very limited, I have a good job, so hard for me to leave.
decent hunting ground is 3-4 hrs away, i choose to hunt where is bad mainly because I get to see my mom afterwards, a bad day goes away once I see my mom, so the choice is mine, I can nail does, just hold on for a buck if given a chance, yes the laws are bad, but, no imposible.
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