? about humanely taking animals

Southernfryedyankee · 08-28-2008, 03:14 PM

I have been watching my hunting shows and I have seen numerous rifle and bow shots where the shooter hits the animal VERY close if not on the spine itself at the middle of the back. Is that a humane shot? I personally dont think it is, wouldnt that rank up there with getting parylized and lead to a slow drawn out death. Thats gotta suck. I havent taken many deer but something about those shots doesnt seem right.

Tenderfoot · 08-28-2008, 03:42 PM

In primos Thruth III, the guy hit an elk with a longbow right in the spine like that. It dropped in it's tracks. It can be bad(inhumane) but if your broadhead is large enough you may get lucky and hit a major artery(maybe it is a vein) that runs along the spine. That should bring a deer down quick...ish, but I still prefer heart-shots(not that I am capable of making them myself

)

jcmorgan31 · 08-28-2008, 04:23 PM

Most of the "pro" hunters I see can barely hit a bucket a 5 yards so I doubt they are aiming for the spine. More than likely it is just a bad shot. Stuff like that happens even to the greatest (slipppy) hunters.

I would judge the humaneness of it by the hunters actions after paralyzing the animal. The 2nd buck I shot with a bow, I hit in the spine and he dropped in his tracks. I could tell it was going to take a long time for him to die, so I put another one where the first one should have went and left for an hour.

Even if someone is good enough to hit an animal in the spine on purpose, I'm not sure that doing so is entirely in-humane. After all, the deer will probably feel little pain (as is is paralyzed) and it will not need to run around bleeding to death. Instead, it will be in a nice pile right in front of the hunter where it can be dispensed of quickly.

I got a question though. Isn't the root word "human"? How do animals fit in there anyway?

wildfan99 · 08-28-2008, 04:25 PM

I have knocked down 2 different deer in the years past w/ spine shots. Both deer were taken by fire arm. Both deer were immobilized instantly, but both needed kill shots. The spine hits were not on purpose, just poorly placed @ longer distances 200-250 yds. In my opinion heart & lungs is the way to go.

Tenderfoot · 08-28-2008, 04:57 PM

I saw a doe shot with a 7mm in the backstrap last year. Dropped totaly dead on impact as the best meat flew through the woods on the back side. I checked my info, and it is a major artery which runs below the spinal column. And somebody had a good point about a paralyzed deer not going far. I've seen (on tv) perfectly shot double-lunged deer run almost 100 yards and not go down for almost a minute. If he was right in front of you still and you got another arrow in him and he died within 20 seconds, isn't that more deer-mane in your book?

jcmorgan31 · 08-28-2008, 05:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tenderfoot

I saw a doe shot with a 7mm in the backstrap last year. Dropped totaly dead on impact as the best meat flew through the woods on the back side. I checked my info, and it is a major artery which runs below the spinal column. And somebody had a good point about a paralyzed deer not going far. I've seen (on tv) perfectly shot double-lunged deer run almost 100 yards and not go down for almost a minute. If he was right in front of you still and you got another arrow in him and he died within 20 seconds, isn't that more deer-mane in your book?

goldflinger · 08-28-2008, 05:27 PM

Same here. I've shot deer in the heart leaving holes big enough to stick the gun stock in. Off they ran. NOt very far. And I shot one through the spine on a longer shot. "Held way too high." You would have to be pretty quik with a stop watch to time the difference.

MagnifiedFur · 08-28-2008, 06:54 PM

I dont see anything wrong with a spine shot,they seem to drop most times...I think a broad side spine shot is risky because if you hit low you are going to have a animal on the run with a high hit which can create a low spotty blood trail...I have taken the so called hard angle stand shot "rite under you" 3 times and each time I aimed for the spine,3 harvest's that just dropped...Easy tracking my friends...

I'll give the Spinal Tap any day

Holy Smokes · 08-28-2008, 08:26 PM

I aim for tha biggest area I can
in tha vitals of course
some times i have hit tha spine and it dropa em in thier tracks iahve a had a couple crawl off and had to find em and I cut thier throat so they will bleed out and make good cuts of meat

TEN RING · 08-28-2008, 09:35 PM

Bad thing about spine shoot you lose some of the back straps but if you shoot them quarting away if you shoot short you are still getting a lung

Southernfryedyankee · 08-28-2008, 09:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TEN RING

Bad thing about spine shoot you lose some of the back straps but if you shoot them quarting away if you shoot short you are still getting a lung

Speaking of hungry I want some KBO's Rollups now THATS good eatin.

majorleaguedobberman · 08-28-2008, 10:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MagnifiedFur

I'll give the Spinal Tap any day

Sniper · 08-29-2008, 01:21 AM

There are two large vessels that run on the inside (on a four-footed animal, it would be below) the spine. They are the Descendind Aorta, and the Inferior Vena Cava. The first is a artery, the second, a vein. Both carry most of the blood going from the heart, or returning it to it. The locations are actually protection by the bones of the spine. A rifle would blow through tissue and bone, and a close wound canal by a bullet, especially a expanding hunting bullet, may rupture either or both by Hydrostatic Shock. That's the pressure waves of the fluid in the tissues as a bullet bulls through at high speed. FMJs give great penetration, but reduced Hydrostatic Shock. Animals, and people, for that matter, shot with a spitzer type FMJ may not even fall down, as it punctures more than dumps it's energy the way a expanding bullet does.
Hitting the spine, or close to it, wouldn't necessarily hit either vessel.
The Hydrostatic Shock of a hunting bullet passing close to the spinal column could shock the cord, causing temporary or permanent paralysis. The wound of animals or people that survive gunshot wound have the area all around the wound channel die off and have to have the tissue around them cut out, as it is dead tissue, and would rot and fester.
I've shot straight down through a spine with a arrow, into the heart, and out the chest. Deer went 2 yards.
I doubt anybody aims to hit a spine with a rifle or bow. I've seen deer at the butcher with broadheads stuck in vertebra. It would be a risky shot, to say the least, with a bow, regardless of arrow speed or broadhead.
I think, and hope, all hunters aim for the 10 ring, and hit a 8 or 5. Just like on a 3D course.
Aiming between the eyes of a deer looking at you while bowhunting is risky business also. You may go right into the brain, and get a cool picture after, but you may bounce of the skull, or cause a grevious facial injury without causing a mortal wound.

jdawg240 · 08-29-2008, 07:28 AM

Ive never spined a deer with arrow,but I have hit a deer in the spine with a gun. Biggest buck Ive shot at in my life. Hit him high in the back at 175 yards. He dropped like a brick. Laid there dead for 5 minutes. I wanted to run out to him as soon as he hit the ground. But my buddy who was in the blind with me said no dont go anywhere he's not moveing. So we sat for a minute to calm our nerves(well, my nerves). Next thing I know we take two steps out of the blind and the deer gets up and runs away

. Crazyest thing Ive ever seen. The thing laid there for all that time and then wam,,like nothing happened he got up and ran away. After a day and a half of chaseing him I never did get the beatiful ten point. But heres the crazy part. He lived. My buddy missed him 2 weeks later on video during muzzleloader season. Moral of the story..if you spine a deer get to the deer as soon as possible to dispacth said deer. If I had got out of the blind as soon as I shot I could have walked over to him and finished the job.The spine is a weird place to hit animals and crazy things can and do happen.

dbdcougar · 08-29-2008, 07:54 AM

Your still better off going for a lung shot, it's a large organ and certainly lethal. It really offers as good a killing shot as a heart shot and that's not from my experience (although from the deer I've taken I agree) but the opinion of a man who has tracked hundreds of deer. I'm with Sniper aim, for an 8 -10-11 ring hit.

J.Blay · 08-29-2008, 04:12 PM

Much inside of 10 yards from 30' high, just inside the spine is the place to aim. The arrow exits low oppisite rib cage and usually takes both lungs.

QSA · 08-29-2008, 06:11 PM

lol I can say it in just 3 little letters.
RPG
lol

BowhuntnHoosier · 08-29-2008, 07:33 PM

I'll take a good ole double lunger anytime..........

Holy Smokes · 08-29-2008, 07:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BowhuntnHoosier

I'll take a good ole double lunger anytime..........

Yes sir BHH every time
good blood trials

Tenderfoot · 08-29-2008, 09:39 PM

i've had SO many deer walk right to my stand and right away offering me no broadside. I've never tried to crack their spines, because the steep angle is too unpredicatable(i never practice it). I am thinking about just getting a spear and jumping all these does and bucks. Oh, and I wouldn't want to hit skull or vertabrae or anything harder than a rib...it'd ruin my arrow and broadhead. I want clean pass throughs and re-usable arrows. As many does as I see they aint worth 15-20$ a piece

Sniper · 09-02-2008, 01:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tenderfoot

i've had SO many deer walk right to my stand and right away offering me no broadside. I've never tried to crack their spines, because the steep angle is too unpredicatable(i never practice it). I am thinking about just getting a spear and jumping all these does and bucks. Oh, and I wouldn't want to hit skull or vertabrae or anything harder than a rib...it'd ruin my arrow and broadhead. I want clean pass throughs and re-usable arrows. As many does as I see they aint worth 15-20$ a piece

It is a shot that you should practice. Shoot a 3D at 5 yards or less, from different angles, to show where the arrow hits in relation to your closest pin, and then look at the angles, what the arrow would have passed through going out the bottom. Straight down is a extremely difficult shot. You might hit your stand, or a cam/limb could hit a part of your body. But, 5 yards is doable, and I also have had lots of deer walk under me. I harvested a couple confidently. I had it happen enough that I felt I should practice that shot. Just try to aim for the heart, and cut your way down through to it.
A Arrow/broadhead is expendable. How do you value the deer's life? I seldom reuse a broadhead after a pass through, and as often as not lose, bust, bend the arrow.

Slice · 09-02-2008, 01:15 PM

Last year I took 2 deer with spine shots. Both deer passed under my stand and were walking straight away from me. Both shots passed completely through the spine and passed through the heart (both deer were at about 5 yards). Both deer piled up right there and expired very quickly. No meat was lost and no tracking was required.

I guess it would be your confidence level with the shot.

MagnifiedFur · 09-02-2008, 03:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Slice

Last year I took 2 deer with spine shots. Both deer passed under my stand and were walking straight away from me. Both shots passed completely through the spine and passed through the heart (both deer were at about 5 yards). Both deer piled up right there and expired very quickly. No meat was lost and no tracking was required.

I guess it would be your confidence level with the shot.

I think your rite,,I practice this shot,I think its important to be able to make this shot...I have took the shot 4 times,first time i missed over top...I started practicing the shot and i still do...I think the biggest thing is waiting for the spine to line up in-line with all your pins,I have a 5 yrd pin just for this shot....I have had 3 harvests since,all dropped...The Lungs are very easy to hit from above and your more than likely going to hit the Heart on exit...I think Bow hunters are used to looking at the Vitals from a side view,think about where they are from above...

Guys climb up your stand and put your Block a few yards away and give it a shot or two...I think that shot is going to come up in the field...

Sniper · 09-02-2008, 10:32 PM

Even if you miss the spine itself, and the heart, the wound down through the chest will cut up lots of vascular stuff, and the exit wound very low will drain a easy trail if it doesnt go down in a few seconds.
But you gotta practice it to know where that arrow will go, in relation to your closest pin.