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Old 08-30-2009, 08:46 PM   #1
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Default Shooter??? Or let it walk?

Checked my camera today and had a few pictures of this buck. To me, it's a shooter, but I don't consider myself a trophy hunter. Just curious how many would take the opportunity to put this one in the freezer.
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Old 08-30-2009, 09:00 PM   #2
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looks like about a 2 year old. its all preference. If you think its a trophy then its a trophy ! My self I persoanlly would let it walk. I am a big horn hunter now .... in the past wasnt and wouldnt have taken a second thought. and also depends if you and your area your hunting is practicing QDM.... good luck on what ever choice you make. and if you do get it this year.... take pics for us !!
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Old 08-31-2009, 12:20 AM   #3
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No question as to him being a nice animal. It would be great if you could see him in another couple years but there's no guarantee he'll make it. I'm with Pinwheel, if you feel he's a shooter - that's what's important. Don't let anyone question your decision
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Old 08-31-2009, 12:59 AM   #4
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I say let it walk, only bucks I shoot are ones I will shoulder mount and hang on my wall... That being said I have only shot two and this will be my 5th season bow hunting. I always shoot more does than bucks anyway. To each is own its your tags and your time in the woods!
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Old 08-31-2009, 07:07 AM   #5
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Thanks for the input guys. Like I said, just curious as to who would let it walk and who would shoot it. This is on public land and the closest thing to QDM would be the state requirement that a legal buck has at least 3-points on one side. The law has been in place for several years now, and I have seen an increase in the antler size since put in place. I'm not against QDM by any stretch, but then I've never passed on putting a legal buck in the freezer. As far as does (tastey), they are on the hit list as well. However, where I live in Arkansas, the legal limit for deer is three, 2-does and 1-buck, or 1-doe and 2-bucks. All three can't be the same sex. Just like most places, we have more does than bucks and I wish that we could get extra tags for does. As far as this buck, I'll let you know. The season opens October 1st and I'll see what else turns up on tha camera. This area isn't known for lots of big bucks anyway. There aren't any field crops within 30-miles that I know about. So the deer survive on mast, browse, and what ever they can get from peoples flowers and bushes . I'l let you know how it goes.
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Old 08-31-2009, 07:33 AM   #6
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The reality is most of use don't have big enough property we hunt on to able to do QDM. For example: The guy who owns the property behind mine & his buddies will take anything so QDM is a joke on my place - it certainly is on public land. It would depend on what I was seeing - if in your case an 8 pt 2.5 year old is a good animal (it is on my land) then yes take it. I would.
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Old 08-31-2009, 07:59 AM   #7
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It all depends on your specific property and what your trying to do. I say shoot him if you want.
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Old 08-31-2009, 08:23 AM   #8
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In my area, I would let the air out of him in a heart beat. 2.5 year olds are rare around here.
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Old 08-31-2009, 09:51 AM   #9
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Default Do not take this the wrong way.

OK I say if it makes you happy then shoot him. But if like it seems is the case thier is hesitation. Then let him walk. I hunt public land a let six bucks last year that looked real simaliar in size to him walk. I can not wait and see what they do this year cause I KNOW not all of them were shot.

For the guys that say a 2.5 is rare in your area and you would shoot him in a heartbeat, then things will never change. I am not trying to slam and say what you do is wrong just make you think that if you would like for it to change then you have to be the one to start change. Then spread the word. In today time Hunters are becoming more "QDM" so to speak savy and many places that normally produce small deer are now producing monsters. It is evident n Videos and TV shows. Years ago there were just a few states they would target to kill big bucks, yet today they are shooting big one in just about every state because more and more hunters are having a change in mentality.

I grew up hunting public and all I ever heard was If I let him walk someone else will shoot him. And yes that does happen but probaly not near as much as we lead ourselves to believe, and I have seen guys shoot deer I have passed yet they still do not get everyone.

Saying that there is only one fact that we know and control ourselves. If My attitude is if I pass on him someone else will shoot him then I shoot him anyway, guess what it is a fact he will not survive the season. If I do let him walk at least he still has a chance to make it another year.

Like I said I do not think badly on anyone's post here, just like to get people look at it in a different way, cause the more hunters start thinking management the better the herd will be a healthy sustaining herd.
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Old 08-31-2009, 11:49 AM   #10
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Let him walk. He is tempting, but I passed 3 deer very similar to him last year. Hoping I get a crack at one of them this year.
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Old 08-31-2009, 11:51 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Devine Shot View Post
OK I say if it makes you happy then shoot him. But if like it seems is the case thier is hesitation. Then let him walk. I hunt public land a let six bucks last year that looked real simaliar in size to him walk. I can not wait and see what they do this year cause I KNOW not all of them were shot.

For the guys that say a 2.5 is rare in your area and you would shoot him in a heartbeat, then things will never change. I am not trying to slam and say what you do is wrong just make you think that if you would like for it to change then you have to be the one to start change. Then spread the word. In today time Hunters are becoming more "QDM" so to speak savy and many places that normally produce small deer are now producing monsters. It is evident n Videos and TV shows. Years ago there were just a few states they would target to kill big bucks, yet today they are shooting big one in just about every state because more and more hunters are having a change in mentality.

I grew up hunting public and all I ever heard was If I let him walk someone else will shoot him. And yes that does happen but probaly not near as much as we lead ourselves to believe, and I have seen guys shoot deer I have passed yet they still do not get everyone.

Saying that there is only one fact that we know and control ourselves. If My attitude is if I pass on him someone else will shoot him then I shoot him anyway, guess what it is a fact he will not survive the season. If I do let him walk at least he still has a chance to make it another year.

Like I said I do not think badly on anyone's post here, just like to get people look at it in a different way, cause the more hunters start thinking management the better the herd will be a healthy sustaining herd.

You took the words right out of my mouth. Just think about it. If you the hunter can start the trend of passing up young deer and try to teach or spread the word about QDM you never know what your area can produce. It can start with you.
Look at where I am from for example. I live in SE Oklahoma. 10 Years ago the average deer killed in my area was 1 1/2 years old. Pretty sad but in the last couple of years that age has gone up to about 2 1/2 which is still pretty low but its a start.
I have a lease in the Kiamichi Mts. No crop fields what so ever. Just rough country. 2 years ago there was 2 state Records killed within a few days of each other. Guess what. Both bucks were killed in the Kiamichi Mts. No crop fields remember. The bucks get a chance to get old in the MT's and with proper deer Mngt these bucks got get a chance to get old and really develop. Just because there are no crop fields doesnt mean that you cant produce some awesome whitetails. It just takes proper mngt and LOTS OF PATIENCE.

If this buck is a trophy to you then I say shoot it and then set your standards for your next buck a little higher. Just keep setting your standards higher and higher and before you know it you will have studs running all over your place.

By the way. Both bucks that were killed in OK that year were typical state records. One of them scored 192 5/8 and the other was 194. The 192 5/8 buck is bigger than the other IMO but has more deducts. I am gonna post a pic of it and then a pic of the monster 10pt we have on us that will score around 200. We call him Big Boy. Typical frame 10 pt with 10 inch brow tines. Just a brute of a buck. Remember all these bucks are from areas that doesnt have crop fields. Just proper MNGT.
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Old 08-31-2009, 12:51 PM   #12
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Checked my camera today and had a few pictures of this buck. To me, it's a shooter, but I don't consider myself a trophy hunter. Just curious how many would take the opportunity to put this one in the freezer.
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HUnting is not about shooting trophy deer. Each hunter chooses why he hunts. If this buck would make you feel good to harvest. I say go for it!
Its your tag and your right. I dont know how many deer you have harvested but I have harvested my share of deer that size and it was rewarding for myself then. Honestly its your call to make.
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Old 08-31-2009, 12:53 PM   #13
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let him walk for one more year. Patience will pay off at some point.
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Old 08-31-2009, 06:20 PM   #14
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id love to see deer like that..I'd definately take that deer

The closest thing ive ever shot to a buck, was a button buck which i thought was a big doe..Didnt know it was a buck till field dressing time
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Old 09-01-2009, 12:30 AM   #15
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have you ever shot a buck bigger then that before? if not take it. I hunt a very hard hunted area but we have good deer, so if that buck walks up early season ill let it walk. If he comes up last few days of bow season, hes down.
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Old 09-01-2009, 07:02 AM   #16
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Quote:
For the guys that say a 2.5 is rare in your area and you would shoot him in a heartbeat, then things will never change. I am not trying to slam and say what you do is wrong just make you think that if you would like for it to change then you have to be the one to start change. Then spread the word. In today time Hunters are becoming more "QDM"
That's a nice theory - like I said it's not going to happen around here. They're not going to do it. If you can't get everyone around a pretty large area to agree it's not going to work. No me starting it isn't going to change anything - there has to be an interest by all parties and that is definitely not the case here.
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Old 09-01-2009, 09:32 AM   #17
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That's a nice theory - like I said it's not going to happen around here. They're not going to do it. If you can't get everyone around a pretty large area to agree it's not going to work. No me starting it isn't going to change anything - there has to be an interest by all parties and that is definitely not the case here.
I disagree. Change has to start somewhere. Our area used to be just like yours but then someone changed and started spreading the word. We still have peole go by the saying (if its brown its down). Thats fine. Its there God given right but the majority of the guys around here are starting to pass younger bucks up. Guess what. The trend started somewhere.
Just like DB said. If you think its a trophy it doesnt matter what anyone else thinks. Thats all that matters. Good luck and try to start a trend. People will catch on eventually and it has to start somewhere.
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Old 09-01-2009, 09:51 AM   #18
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That's a nice theory - like I said it's not going to happen around here. They're not going to do it. If you can't get everyone around a pretty large area to agree it's not going to work. No me starting it isn't going to change anything - there has to be an interest by all parties and that is definitely not the case here.
Funny you say that cause when I first moved to OK from TX a buddy I was working with had 110 acres that had 6 guys hunting it. They have never shot a deer any bigger than the one in question here. My buddy asked me to implement rules for his hunters to follow cause he not a hunter but just did not like to see such young bucks constantly killed. It is funny he was not a hunter and understood the importance of a healthy herd, and was not against hunting what so ever. So the first year I told the guys they could not shoot one single buck off the place. I do not care if it is a booner(and I say that from my experience from Outfitting a tightly managed land hunters will swear it was a monster and be the same buck in question here when we walk up to it. For one year shoot does only, and I will work with them to age deer by body and not by rack. They were not happy but they did it, The next year I let them shoot a buck that met requirements I showed them on aging. Opening weekend one guy shot a 135 in 10pt. When he brought back to camp the guys looked as if they have never seen anything that big in their life. So Yes the theory can work on small properties. Even on thirty acres. It can work, just got to give it a shot.

Everyone thinks Management is about Trophy Bucks, which in the end that is a good result but the most important part is overall deer quality. Think of deer in human terms versus age. SO a 2.5 year old deer is like a 8 or 9 year human. Well what would this world be like if it is ran by a bunch of 8 year olds. Just in deer the 2.5 year old barley understand what life is about. They really do not understand why they scrape, they barley understand. I just hate seeing deer herds where 2.5 year old is the top end. That makes us no better than the days of old kill all you can a almost decemated the herds. We are better than that. Then everyone uses the excuse we will lose our kids because they can not kill first time out. That is hog wash I went three years on public land and saw just a glimpse of deer never getting even a great look at them. That made me realize it was actually a sport not some video game go out and shoot after being there 5 minutes. So when I did get a deer it was pretty freakin awesome. But then also to those who say if you pass on small ones you will lose the kids, but if you give the management two years our kids will have so much more variety in racks cause most 2.5 year old has same style rack. You give them to 4 or 5 years the racks can vary in alot of ways making the sport more appealing to kids.

I guess what I was trying to say is if you would like change it will never even begin to happen unless you change yourself. I know it is hard cause there are plenty changes I need to implement myself like more exercise. I am not going to lose weight unless I change.

Dbcougar if you would like it to change you may would like to get with a QDM group and get someone with a successful story with great pics and good video footage maybe that could get guys thinking. Then find a way to intice your local hunters near you to a dinner that you give away some prizes or something that would get them to show up, Then have QDM show there success story and never know you guys may come out with a good plan. Not going to hook them all but you would be surprised how many are thinking the exactly the way you are.

Deer Management is a awesome thing I have seen proof all over the country and it is just not for the rich and famous. We just have to approach it differently.
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Old 09-01-2009, 06:01 PM   #19
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In our area there's about 50/50 practicing some form of QDM. But 8 years ago it was zero. Once the neighbors started seeing the bucks we were killing they caught on. Now some are on board that we would have never guessed would be. It all still comes down to what you want to shoot. If QDM is not for you so be it. Have fun and pass the backstraps.
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Old 09-01-2009, 09:50 PM   #20
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Good post Devine, I appreciate your taking the time to make it
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Old 09-01-2009, 10:37 PM   #21
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There is'nt a deer here that would'nt get shot. Big or small. I'm affraid to let any deer without spots pass. QDM is but a dream here. I would welcome it if it were to come to a vote. But untill it does, you have to decide yourself. Nobody here is going to down you if you take him. Deer are food to me.
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Old 09-01-2009, 10:41 PM   #22
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FYI I hunt a parcel of land that is mabey 200 acres. No less than 8 other guys are known to be in there through the fall. If I don't put it in the freezer, the next guy will. In my situation, I would'nt hesitate to take him.
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Old 09-02-2009, 07:03 AM   #23
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I'm glad you had success but let me say this one more time THERE IS NO WAY IT"S GOING TO HAPPEN THAT WAY HERE - you don't know the people I'm dealing with - they just don't care. As red said:
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Old 09-02-2009, 09:03 AM   #24
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Someone told me once, never pass on the first day what you would shoot on the last day. I have a 14 point buck behind my house this yeer it has great mass and split g1's. That is the deer I plan on shooting this year but if a good 8 point showes up at 15 yards broadside he is going to get it. Maybe the next yeer I will get that big boy, but this year at least i would have something to bring home.
Last year I passed on a small 8 point because I would see this great buck once a week but could never get him in range and was sure I would by the end of season. Long story short, never got hin under 40 and ended up shooting a 5 point buck in the last hours of the last day.
I think that when the game gods give you a chance on a deer that you would take on the last day you should take it Or be okay with going home empty handed.
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Old 09-02-2009, 09:14 AM   #25
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Maybe cause I'm a meat hunter first and a horn hunter second.

QDM says if your a meat hunter, shoot does and let the bucks walk..... Common sense say if you shoot off the does they are not producing fawns, If they don't produce fawns the population goes down, bucks included.

Put it this way you can't raise chickens if you eat all the eggs, sooner or later you run out of eggs..

Don't get me wrong I get a little selective and let a few go by when I get down to my last tag but before that day i'm on a mission to fill the freezer.

To give you a idea of the hunting pressure put on the deer here and why QDM won't work in my area.

These are just gun season numbers

On my 30 acres there are 4 family member that hunt it.

Neighbors to the north they don't live here just hunt here, they have 40 acres. Last year opening day of gun season he had 7 guys hunting it.

the 40 acre lot to the north of him ( once again just hunt here) they have 4 guys hunting.

To the backside of me, guy lease a 50 acre lot and have 7 to 8 people hunting.

South of me the guy has a 90 acre lot and god only know how many people he has hunting they like driving around on 4 wheelers and try to push deer to each other.

Now each of these hunter has two buck tags and most have a couple does tag and we all have about 3 and half months of hunting to fill them. Now that's pressure, sometimes you wonder how anything lives through that. Open day around here sounds like WW3 breaking out all around.

That should give you a idea of why it's rare to see a 2.5 year old buck or even a older doe in this area.
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Old 09-02-2009, 09:57 AM   #26
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I live next to a farm and my land backs up to about 1200 acres of woods that is owned by the farmer. He lets me and 3 others hunt it. There is no way qdm would work for me. There are just to many deer for us to make an impact. It is not unusual for me to see 10-15 doe a night and 8- 10 small buck a night. The wmu I live in is just over run with deer. last year PA put 92000 doe tags for wmu 5c this year it is 113000 an increase of 20 some %. The total doe tags put out in the state is only 800000. If the people that hunt where I hunt tried qmd we would have to take 20 deer a season per person just to make a dent.
I think qdm has its place but in some places it just will not work, or in my case it would take the period of my natural life to see my work have an affect.
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Old 09-02-2009, 10:07 AM   #27
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Maybe cause I'm a meat hunter first and a horn hunter second.

QDM says if your a meat hunter, shoot does and let the bucks walk..... Common sense say if you shoot off the does they are not producing fawns, If they don't produce fawns the population goes down, bucks included.

Put it this way you can't raise chickens if you eat all the eggs, sooner or later you run out of eggs..

Don't get me wrong I get a little selective and let a few go by when I get down to my last tag but before that day i'm on a mission to fill the freezer.

To give you a idea of the hunting pressure put on the deer here and why QDM won't work in my area.

These are just gun season numbers

On my 30 acres there are 4 family member that hunt it.

Neighbors to the north they don't live here just hunt here, they have 40 acres. Last year opening day of gun season he had 7 guys hunting it.

the 40 acre lot to the north of him ( once again just hunt here) they have 4 guys hunting.

To the backside of me, guy lease a 50 acre lot and have 7 to 8 people hunting.

South of me the guy has a 90 acre lot and god only know how many people he has hunting they like driving around on 4 wheelers and try to push deer to each other.

Now each of these hunter has two buck tags and most have a couple does tag and we all have about 3 and half months of hunting to fill them. Now that's pressure, sometimes you wonder how anything lives through that. Open day around here sounds like WW3 breaking out all around.

That should give you a idea of why it's rare to see a 2.5 year old buck or even a older doe in this area.



Now that's pressure, sometimes you wonder how anything lives through that.

With this you have answered the impossibilities of QDM. Hmmmmm how do the deer survive. With all those hunters how and the heck do they survive. Several reasons most of which most hunters are really not that good, even with a rifle. Most shoot first thing comes out, Then the pressure several will turn nocturnal or areas that the hunters do not trample in. This is excatly the point I have tried to make to the non believers. THEY DO SURVIVE......
NOT EVERY SINGLE BUCK GETS KILLED EVERY YEAR. The theory if meat hunters all start shooting does then no more eggs to hatch. Well if that were true all the years of all this pressure hunting when everyone was after just bucks, would that not be the same thing cause it does take two to tangle...

Yes what scenario you described sounds pretty tough. Yet to me you have great chance to have a safe place for deer. Your only hurdle to start is get the hunters on your place to dare try it. Create good cover with a good food base and Your group hunt smart and you have a great sanctuary for deer that will come running and want to live on your place.

I am not trying to say you can turn it into a DEERASSIC Park or nothing yet it can be Improved........BECAUSE EVEN WITH ALL THAT PRESSURE THEY STILL SURVIVE...... SO IF I PASS HE HAS A CHANCE...... HE MAY GET SHOT..... BUT HE STILL HAS A CHANCE........Some will SURVIVE....Believe it or not. I grew up in North Texas near Dallas with just one little public land that a lot of hunters has two solid months of rifle hunting. The public was nothing but 30 acres here 80 over there and rest of land all around leased up. Hunters like crazy and when my cousins and I finally learned to hunt we started finding some real good deer when we really thought it was hopeless. I will try to find couple pics and scan them. I only hunted with bow all year and just when getting good moved after high school. It was just getting good and for the cousins they have done pretty decent since.

I guess I ought to give up. I hope you guys enjoy yourselves out hunting this fall because it is a great sport. Good Luck to all even if you shoot young or old. If it makes you happy shoot them. I just started talking management to the ones who sounded like they would rather shoot bigger but just no hope. GOOD LUCK THIS SEASON.
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Old 09-02-2009, 10:09 AM   #28
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Originally Posted by Gator eye View Post
Maybe cause I'm a meat hunter first and a horn hunter second.

QDM says if your a meat hunter, shoot does and let the bucks walk..... Common sense say if you shoot off the does they are not producing fawns, If they don't produce fawns the population goes down, bucks included.

Put it this way you can't raise chickens if you eat all the eggs, sooner or later you run out of eggs..

Don't get me wrong I get a little selective and let a few go by when I get down to my last tag but before that day i'm on a mission to fill the freezer.

To give you a idea of the hunting pressure put on the deer here and why QDM won't work in my area.

These are just gun season numbers

On my 30 acres there are 4 family member that hunt it.

Neighbors to the north they don't live here just hunt here, they have 40 acres. Last year opening day of gun season he had 7 guys hunting it.

the 40 acre lot to the north of him ( once again just hunt here) they have 4 guys hunting.

To the backside of me, guy lease a 50 acre lot and have 7 to 8 people hunting.

South of me the guy has a 90 acre lot and god only know how many people he has hunting they like driving around on 4 wheelers and try to push deer to each other.

Now each of these hunter has two buck tags and most have a couple does tag and we all have about 3 and half months of hunting to fill them. Now that's pressure, sometimes you wonder how anything lives through that. Open day around here sounds like WW3 breaking out all around.

That should give you a idea of why it's rare to see a 2.5 year old buck or even a older doe in this area.

There is no way you can say QDM is a joke. It has proven itself across the nation. Shooting does is one of the best ways to manage a deer herd. We shoot 25-30 does a year off of our place and only 5-8 bucks a year. On our spot light counts this year we are still seeing alot of does but almost all of them have twins. 6 years ago when we started our counts we seen alot more does but most of them didnt even have any fawns. Our buck doe ratio is around 2 does to 1 buck. We would like it to be 1 to 1. Just makes the bucks work harder to breed and therefore we see alot more mature bucks in the day light hours. On an average a mature buck will only breed 3 does a year. Now take that into account. You have 25 does and 3 bucks on your place. No more than 10 of those does are getting bread. So killing a few of them every year and letting the younger bucks walk would not hurt a thing only help your over all health of your deer. Not only that are you gonna mount that little young buck. Probably not. If its a trophy to you and you are proud to kill then thats awesome and your God given right to do so.

All of you guys in your area need to get a little more QDM educated.
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Old 09-03-2009, 08:37 AM   #29
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One of the farms I hunt in KY has the doe ratio way out of whack. The property belongs to my friends in laws; the 2 of us and the boys are about the only ones who hunt it and there is a little more land there maybe 4-500 acres still not nearly big enough to really contain a herd but everyone seems to be interested in leaving the really small ones alone - what doesn't happen is getting enough does taken to keep a good ratio. I've tried to make it a point to take a few does out of there the last few years once I realized how far it was off. I probably should just take does when I'm on that land for a few years.
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Old 09-03-2009, 10:46 AM   #30
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I do not know why but I find myself passing up on too many does as well, Always thinking that big one might show up. Good Luck Slaying some does, they make some good steaks n burgers.......MMMMmmmmmmm. I will try and keep telling myself that......
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