Do you Cull this deer from the heard?

Daniel Boone · 09-12-2009, 09:10 PM

I say yes! Young deer but we don't want him breeding. Looks like eight points on one side with brow tines.

wildjerseyfirefighter · 09-12-2009, 11:52 PM

are you hunting public property or private?

Public property, he probably wont last the season.
Private property the land owner may want you to take him out if hes got any kind of deer management set in place

jame · 09-13-2009, 12:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Daniel Boone

I say yes! Young deer but we don't want him breeding. Looks like eight points on one side with brow tines.

I dont feel like you should cull a buck till he is atleast 3 1/2. We have pics of a buck that was an awesome 3 1/2 10 pt and 1 week late while in velvet he damaged his tines and looks alot different now. It looked like his tines got hit and they just bent over. A few days later the tines were gone like they were never there.

I think its a tough call but I beleive you should cull one till he is atleast 3 1/2.

culleng · 09-13-2009, 08:36 AM

Dan is that the only picture you have of that buck? It looks like the left main beam is the side that is odd. It also looks like his right rear leg may have some type of injuiry. It is hard to see in this picture.

Daniel Boone · 09-13-2009, 09:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by culleng

Dan is that the only picture you have of that buck? It looks like the left main beam is the side that is odd. It also looks like his right rear leg may have some type of injuiry. It is hard to see in this picture.

I will have to look him over come season. If he looks like a three year old he going down! Cameras can be decieving.
DB

jim p. · 09-13-2009, 03:48 PM

Like you say DB, it's a hard call looking at a picture. My guess is we'll be seeing a picture of him again

hstubblefield · 09-13-2009, 08:11 PM

I think I would shoot him,just me tho.Dont want him breeding

NY911 · 09-18-2009, 08:19 AM

There is no way I would shoot him...he has oodles of potential....

Besides, I feel the term "cull" is an excuse to shoot a buck people normally would not shoot per their "management techniques"....... I am all for shooting dinks if you want, but call it what it is....

48down · 09-18-2009, 08:49 AM

If he is young which he looks to be, I would let him go. Looks like he could turn into a freak with lots of mass.

You should do what you want though.

Daniel Boone · 09-18-2009, 12:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 48down

If he is young which he looks to be, I would let him go. Looks like he could turn into a freak with lots of mass.

You should do what you want though.

Often on a lease you take what you can and let some walk. We have some 2 yrs olds with this spike type horn on one side. This is not the first time I have seen this type of horn or sike on one side of a two year old.
DB

JAVI · 09-18-2009, 12:46 PM

I'd take him out..

jame · 09-18-2009, 09:57 PM

No way I would take him out. You look at all the whitetail Biologists and they say never cull a buck till he is atleast 4 1/2 or if he is injured and may not make it.
I have seen deer that look great during early velvet then injury there horns and if a person didnt know any better they would have thought it was a cull buck. They just would have known what they were before the injury so there is no way I would shoot a buck untill he is atleast 3 1/2 if I was gonna cull him and there is no way that buck is over 2 1/2. You have to let the have a chance if you are managing your deer herd. Just my thoughts on it.

JAVI · 09-18-2009, 10:13 PM

all depends on what gene traits you are working for..

Daniel Boone · 09-18-2009, 10:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jame

No way I would take him out. You look at all the whitetail Biologists and they say never cull a buck till he is atleast 4 1/2 or if he is injured and may not make it.
I have seen deer that look great during early velvet then injury there horns and if a person didnt know any better they would have thought it was a cull buck. They just would have known what they were before the injury so there is no way I would shoot a buck untill he is atleast 3 1/2 if I was gonna cull him and there is no way that buck is over 2 1/2. You have to let the have a chance if you are managing your deer herd. Just my thoughts on it.

Ill ask would you pay high dollar for this buck for your ranch? Absouletly not!
Sometimes its called taking out a gene pool. Todays fenced bucks are reaching 300 count bucks. Its gene pools on both the buck and doe that make this kind of rack. Most breeders can tell if a deer will be a trophy at age 2. Actually they would seperate this deer and not allow him to breed.
Thats my thoughts.
DB

Here a good two year old. My cousin buck on his ranch.

Daniel Boone · 09-18-2009, 10:45 PM

Good Genetics is what it takes to have good deer. Inbreeding can be the worse thing one can have. There just some deer that you dont want breeding. Example a 2yr/3yr old spike with no forks.

Good article on doe and buck.

http://www.deerstarbreeders.com/genetics/

jame · 09-19-2009, 12:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Daniel Boone

Good Genetics is what it takes to have good deer. Inbreeding can be the worse thing one can have. There just some deer that you dont want breeding. Example a 2yr/3yr old spike with no forks.

Good article on doe and buck.

http://www.deerstarbreeders.com/genetics/

I wouldnt pay anything to put deer on my place. Thats why we are managing our place and putting the mineral to it to try to improve the over health and horns on our place but I definatly wouldnt shoot that buck.
I agre with the genetics but it is proven that you shouldnt cull a deer till he is atleast 4 1/2. I am not talking about penned deer.
I read some some studies on spikes and multiple point yearlings. They put spikes/3 pointers in one group and 4pt and up in another group. When the bucks were 2 1/2 the multiple point bucks on average were bigger than the spikes/3points. By the time they were 3 1/2 the results were still that the multiple point bucks were bigger. At 4 1/2 the bucks were close but the multiple point bucks were still bigger but at 5 1/2 both groups were about the same. right at 15% of the the 3points/spikes were considered trophy bucks and 14.7% of the multiple point bucks were classified as trophies.
Trophy class was classified as a buck that scored 150 inches or better. Also the study was on a High fenced peice of land about 620 acres. All deer were treated as free ranging animals having to live off of the land and were not fed all the minerals.
If you look at the TX ranches most of them will not Cull a buck till he is atleast 3 1/2.
With that being said if I see a 3 1/2 year old deer with a big fork on one side and a spike on the other I would say cull him.
A buddy of mine ( Dustin Knight) that raises deer told me that alot of the Breeders are inbreeding deer now for bigger genetics. They are taking a 300 class buck and breeding it with his relative with the same genetics so they can grow just as big of deer or bigger. If I am not mistaking I beleive he told me that they are breeding brother and sister. Not from the same birth date but maybe a year or 2 apart. Matter of fact Dustin has some of his does AI'd with PA Geronimo.
Thats a great looking buck your cousing has. I cant wait to see what he looks like at 5 1/2. Dustin should have some awesome bucks in couple more years. He just started it up 2 years ago. He also has a 200 inch 3 1/2 year old that he just bought and this 3 1/2 year old has a brother at 4 1/2 that is almost 300 inches. Dustin told me that there is supposed to be a yearling this year that is gonna score around 340 inches. Thats crazy.
Jame

Daniel Boone · 09-19-2009, 07:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jame

I wouldnt pay anything to put deer on my place. Thats why we are managing our place and putting the mineral to it to try to improve the over health and horns on our place but I definatly wouldnt shoot that buck.
I agre with the genetics but it is proven that you shouldnt cull a deer till he is atleast 4 1/2. I am not talking about penned deer.
I read some some studies on spikes and multiple point yearlings. They put spikes/3 pointers in one group and 4pt and up in another group. When the bucks were 2 1/2 the multiple point bucks on average were bigger than the spikes/3points. By the time they were 3 1/2 the results were still that the multiple point bucks were bigger. At 4 1/2 the bucks were close but the multiple point bucks were still bigger but at 5 1/2 both groups were about the same. right at 15% of the the 3points/spikes were considered trophy bucks and 14.7% of the multiple point bucks were classified as trophies.
Trophy class was classified as a buck that scored 150 inches or better. Also the study was on a High fenced peice of land about 620 acres. All deer were treated as free ranging animals having to live off of the land and were not fed all the minerals.
If you look at the TX ranches most of them will not Cull a buck till he is atleast 3 1/2.
With that being said if I see a 3 1/2 year old deer with a big fork on one side and a spike on the other I would say cull him.
A buddy of mine ( Dustin Knight) that raises deer told me that alot of the Breeders are inbreeding deer now for bigger genetics. They are taking a 300 class buck and breeding it with his relative with the same genetics so they can grow just as big of deer or bigger. If I am not mistaking I beleive he told me that they are breeding brother and sister. Not from the same birth date but maybe a year or 2 apart. Matter of fact Dustin has some of his does AI'd with PA Geronimo.
Thats a great looking buck your cousing has. I cant wait to see what he looks like at 5 1/2. Dustin should have some awesome bucks in couple more years. He just started it up 2 years ago. He also has a 200 inch 3 1/2 year old that he just bought and this 3 1/2 year old has a brother at 4 1/2 that is almost 300 inches. Dustin told me that there is supposed to be a yearling this year that is gonna score around 340 inches. Thats crazy.
Jame

300 class deer now are because of Genetics and nutrition. Some areas of the state don't produce the bigger deer. Yes occasionally you will find a few, but in 25 something years in my area Jame we have not seen class deer. Maybe one time I think I saw one, but who knows during a nighttime count. On my lease in 10 yrs. there been one/maybe two 135 to 140 class. Talking some pretty good hunters. Working ranch with to much property for the 3 to 4 year olds to leave the ranch and be undistributed. On this particular deer. It depends, I believe he is at least 2 1/yrs old. We think he was this big last year and the same buck we saw. His left side is not getting any better from last year. Thats why I say he needs to be taken. We pull all the jaw bones and most the deer shot I agree are 2 1/2 to 3 1/2yrs old. Like I said once they get mature they have a federal reserve and plenty of acres on backside to leave.

We did have a state record taken on the backside. 15" spread 40 pointer non typical that you wouldn't believe was a state record. Ronnie Green Buck.
Had 40 small kickers that scored. I think it was 238. Held the record for non typical for quite a few years.
DB

jame · 09-19-2009, 08:50 AM

Thats crazy. If there had been only that many descent deer killed on my lease I would have already left either that or everyone shoots the first buck they see.
Regardless no one will change my mind on it. YOu shouldnt shoot a buck till he is atleast 4 1/2 and if you keep shooting the 2 1/2 and 3 1/2 year old bucks well guess what you wont ever have that many 4 1/2 years old on your place. That buck in the pic is not over 2 1/2. He needs to have a chance to reach his full potential. I do understand that there is a federal reserve on the back side of your place but for all the bucks that go over there you will have some that come on your place to check the does out.

P.S. I love arguing with you.

Good luck and good hunting.

Daniel Boone · 09-19-2009, 01:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jame

Thats crazy. If there had been only that many descent deer killed on my lease I would have already left either that or everyone shoots the first buck they see.
Regardless no one will change my mind on it. YOu shouldnt shoot a buck till he is atleast 4 1/2 and if you keep shooting the 2 1/2 and 3 1/2 year old bucks well guess what you wont ever have that many 4 1/2 years old on your place. That buck in the pic is not over 2 1/2. He needs to have a chance to reach his full potential. I do understand that there is a federal reserve on the back side of your place but for all the bucks that go over there you will have some that come on your place to check the does out.

P.S. I love arguing with you.

Good luck and good hunting.

I saw this deer not 45yrds away last year, almost went to draw on him untell I noticed the left side. Im pretty sure he the same deer. He atleast three. Tell you what if we shoot him Ill let you know how old he is. Im betting 31/2yrs old.
DB

jame · 09-19-2009, 03:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Daniel Boone

I saw this deer not 45yrds away last year, almost went to draw on him untell I noticed the left side. Im pretty sure he the same deer. He atleast three. Tell you what if we shoot him Ill let you know how old he is. Im betting 31/2yrs old.
DB

Im not saying hes not 3 1/2 cause one pic wont tell a person for sure. If he is 3 1/2 I would probably shoot him contrary to biologists beleif but if hes 2 1/2 I would let him walk altleast another year.
Jame

Daniel Boone · 09-19-2009, 03:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jame

Im not saying hes not 3 1/2 cause one pic wont tell a person for sure. If he is 3 1/2 I would probably shoot him contrary to biologists beleif but if hes 2 1/2 I would let him walk altleast another year.
Jame

His left side never going to make a good buck. Wish I would have shot him last year when he looked about the same. Good genetics bad bucks. Bad genetics get them out of the herd.
DB

jim p. · 09-20-2009, 02:52 AM

Quote:

Wish I would have shot him last year

You don't need this worry Daniel. I don't generally offer to do this but
I like ya - how about I take him out and you concentrate on a bigger
one

Daniel Boone · 09-20-2009, 07:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jim p.

You don't need this worry Daniel. I don't generally offer to do this but
I like ya - how about I take him out and you concentrate on a bigger
one

I saw those Ohio bucks last year. You guys wouldnt shoot these small bucks.
Also seeing them before season on game camera and seeing them during season is always another thing. Deer been giving me the look like this!

Here come those nuts on the four wheelers with there bows and arrows again.

Heading out this morning to show a new member the lease.

Now Jame he got all the big deer tied up down in SE corner of the state on that Texas border. Im talking sure enough monsters. Question is how long is he going to let that 190 class plus walk again.

Jame I would go ahead and take that maybe 200 class deer out this year.

DB

killbambidead · 09-20-2009, 08:34 AM

db do you have any other pictures of him ?

JAVI · 09-20-2009, 08:46 AM

This is what 2.5 year old deer can/should look like... http://discussions.texasbowhunter.co...d.php?t=105194

Daniel Boone · 10-17-2009, 01:50 AM

I let this one walk or should I say lay

jame · 10-18-2009, 09:52 PM

I think that is a great move. He is only 2 1/2 and I hope by next season he grows his other side to match that awesome side. I think he will. Good luck on getting his daddy or grandpa.

armyof1 · 10-18-2009, 10:34 PM

i would shoot it cause you never know if your going to see anymore where i have to hunt