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Old 03-29-2010, 08:50 AM   #1
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Default String question

I want to get a set of customs for my Maxxis 35 and was advised by the string builder to go with only 1 colour as when mixing colours the string becomes more suseptable to peep rotation and a few other things becasue each colour is a slightly different size. Material I am wanting is 452X. Can anybody shed some light on what I was told?

Thanks,

ZA
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Old 03-29-2010, 09:05 AM   #2
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It's true... many of us use a single color.. or in a lot of cases... no color.. I use Natural it has less wax and builds a tighter bundle..
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Old 03-29-2010, 09:05 AM   #3
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Wow.........would have never thought
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Old 03-29-2010, 09:10 AM   #4
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Wow.........would have never thought
Think about it.. two colors, two spools... do they creep the same, stretch the same..... are they exactly alike in composition... was one made on a Monday and the other on a Friday at 3pm...
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Old 03-29-2010, 09:15 AM   #5
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Wow, thanks Javi. Very interesting. So true what you say about the different spools, what's to say they were made exactly the same.
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Old 03-29-2010, 09:20 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JAVI View Post
Think about it.. two colors, two spools... do they creep the same, stretch the same..... are they exactly alike in composition... was one made on a Monday and the other on a Friday at 3pm...



You mean kind of like getting a car that was assembled on monday after the super bowl....................


Yeah I can see what your saying just never thought about it.
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Old 03-29-2010, 10:57 AM   #7
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Also consider that the dyes used to colour the material add different amount of weight to the string material.

Neutral is the lighest and hence the fastest colour.
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Old 03-29-2010, 11:14 AM   #8
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Think about it.. two colors, two spools... do they creep the same, stretch the same..... are they exactly alike in composition... was one made on a Monday and the other on a Friday at 3pm...

that Javi's a smart fella ...
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Old 03-29-2010, 11:51 AM   #9
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Yes, there is the possibility of minute differences between one color and another. With the tight tolerences of automated equipment today the human element is nearly eliminated.

I went to a seminar with Dave Cousins a few years ago where he gave his reasons for shooting the un-dyed material, that being the ability to add a couple more strands to the bundle to reduce stretch/settling without adding bulk.

I am all for doing anything to make a shooter more confident. If a non-dyed "dirty-underwear" colored string adds confidence, more power to you.

There are probably 10 shooters in the whole world that might possibly (honestly) appreciate the miniscule difference of a single color vs. dual color string.

With the technology of today's hydraulic/electric pressure-sensing string building/streching machines I honestly doubt there are even 10 shooters that would know a difference.

That being said, backroom/hand-wrapped-around-a-mandrel strings are going to be significantly more stable if made from one spool.
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Old 03-29-2010, 11:59 AM   #10
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Yes, there is the possibility of minute differences between one color and another. With the tight tolerences of automated equipment today the human element is nearly eliminated.

I went to a seminar with Dave Cousins a few years ago where he gave his reasons for shooting the un-dyed material, that being the ability to add a couple more strands to the bundle to reduce stretch/settling without adding bulk.

I am all for doing anything to make a shooter more confident. If a non-dyed "dirty-underwear" colored string adds confidence, more power to you.

There are probably 10 shooters in the whole world that might possibly (honestly) appreciate the miniscule difference of a single color vs. dual color string.

With the technology of today's hydraulic/electric pressure-sensing string building/streching machines I honestly doubt there are even 10 shooters that would know a difference.

That being said, backroom/hand-wrapped-around-a-mandrel strings are going to be significantly more stable if made from one spool.

You do know PRETTY don't make you shoot any better..... right

And I build a better string in my garage on an old Yellowstone jig than any I've EVER gotten from ANY of the so called custom string makers...
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Old 03-29-2010, 12:11 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JAVI View Post
You do know PRETTY don't make you shoot any better..... right

If looking good makes you feel good and feeling good gives you confidence.......

And I build a better string in my garage on an old Yellowstone jig than any I've EVER gotten from ANY of the so called custom string makers...
I will go out on a limb and agree 95% of the "custom string makers" are mostly "smoke and mirrors". On the contrary I have to say I have NEVER had a set of strings from the old jigs that were even in the ball park with the stings made on the 2 HTM systems where I have gotten strings the last 7 years.
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Old 03-29-2010, 12:32 PM   #12
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I will go out on a limb and agree 95% of the "custom string makers" are mostly "smoke and mirrors". On the contrary I have to say I have NEVER had a set of strings from the old jigs that were even in the ball park with the stings made on the 2 HTM systems where I have gotten strings the last 7 years.
Ahhh.... but I get the string EXACTLY how I want it... not how someone else thinks I should get it.. And I love having a 24 strand string that is as fast and as tight as an 18 strand... yet it is much more stable..
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Old 03-29-2010, 01:17 PM   #13
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Lucky for us in the KC area we have not only one, but two string builders that can (and will) give you exactly what you ask for. They will build you a string under controlled (and measured) tension, then serve it under a constantly controlled tension on both the string and serving material.

Unless you have super-human sensitivity (or magic of some kind) there is no humanly possible way to match that type of mechanical advantage. I used to build some pretty snazzy strings and cables on an old jig too. The thing there is I also had the luxury to put the bow back in the press every 50 arrows or so for the first 3 weeks of shooting putting a twist here and a twist there.

Most archers today want to set it and forget it. The majority of those even want it "set" for them....and then they forget it. Again, I want to express my point that the number of shooters that would see ANY advantage of a mono-color string over a bi-color is rediculously small. The old fairy tail of the Princess that felt the Pea under 14 mattresses comes to mind

Oh by the way, either of those string builders up North of KC will build strings/cables to YOUR spec including color....just ask for the "dirty underwear" version, they will know what you are talking about
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Old 03-29-2010, 01:26 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Huntelk View Post
Lucky for us in the KC area we have not only one, but two string builders
Crackers and ???
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Old 03-29-2010, 01:26 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Huntelk View Post
Lucky for us in the KC area we have not only one, but two string builders that can (and will) give you exactly what you ask for. They will build you a string under controlled (and measured) tension, then serve it under a constantly controlled tension on both the string and serving material.

Unless you have super-human sensitivity (or magic of some kind) there is no humanly possible way to match that type of mechanical advantage. I used to build some pretty snazzy strings and cables on an old jig too. The thing there is I also had the luxury to put the bow back in the press every 50 arrows or so for the first 3 weeks of shooting putting a twist here and a twist there.

Most archers today want to set it and forget it. The majority of those even want it "set" for them....and then they forget it. Again, I want to express my point that the number of shooters that would see ANY advantage of a mono-color string over a bi-color is rediculously small. The old fairy tail of the Princess that felt the Pea under 14 mattresses comes to mind

Oh by the way, either of those string builders up North of KC will build strings/cables to YOUR spec including color....just ask for the "dirty underwear" version, they will know what you are talking about
Hasn't been my experience with at least one of those fellows up north of you..
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Old 03-29-2010, 01:27 PM   #16
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Quote:
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Crackers and ???
Crackers and Vic's.
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Old 03-29-2010, 08:34 PM   #17
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One color or two colors, I've never had much problem with peep rotation. The only time It was a problem was when I tried serving extremely tightly. I had just gotten a new Beiter serving tool and set it very tight. Peep rotation was horrible.

When I set the Beiter to a more reasonable tension, peep rotation wasn't a problem. And serving went faster and easier too.

I have noticed that often colored yarn tends to have more wax on it. This can be controlled by burnishing both before and after twisting.

I've never tried the natural color with less wax. It seems like a great idea. Where do you buy it?
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Old 03-30-2010, 07:56 AM   #18
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I have not tried to use a micrometer to see if the strand sizes between different colors is different but they sure look like they are different diameters. I have some black and some fluorescent orange and the fluorescent looks a little bigger.

I normally just use one color but I wanted to see what was happening as I built my strings. I also started using some halo serving so I could observe what is happening under the serving. By using 2 colors I could tell what was happening to the string twist as I applied the halo serving. The first string that I built showed me that I had my serving tension too tight and I was forcing twist out from under the serving on the string.

I don't sell strings but I do enjoy being to make my own and shoot them. I like not having to have someone else to keep my bow shooting. I also like being able to make the strings like I want them.

Another advantage of a single color is that you can roll strands to line up your peep without having to adding a 1/2 twist or 3 twist or whatever to your string to get the peep facing the correct way.
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Old 03-30-2010, 08:24 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Huntelk View Post
Yes, there is the possibility of minute differences between one color and another. With the tight tolerences of automated equipment today the human element is nearly eliminated.

I went to a seminar with Dave Cousins a few years ago where he gave his reasons for shooting the un-dyed material, that being the ability to add a couple more strands to the bundle to reduce stretch/settling without adding bulk.

I am all for doing anything to make a shooter more confident. If a non-dyed "dirty-underwear" colored string adds confidence, more power to you.

There are probably 10 shooters in the whole world that might possibly (honestly) appreciate the miniscule difference of a single color vs. dual color string.

With the technology of today's hydraulic/electric pressure-sensing string building/streching machines I honestly doubt there are even 10 shooters that would know a difference.

That being said, backroom/hand-wrapped-around-a-mandrel strings are going to be significantly more stable if made from one spool.
I gotta agree with that!!

Dan
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Old 03-30-2010, 10:49 PM   #20
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I build 2-color strings and never have a hint of peep rotation. Even when mixing 8125 and 452x, no peep rotation.

I believe it is more about the builders individual skills, tools, and technique, than it is the materials.
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Old 03-31-2010, 02:18 PM   #21
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I am on my 3rd set of strings from Winner's Choice in my second bow. I have set my peep a grand total of 3 times. Every string has been 2 colors. Each string (with the exception of the two new ones) goes through at least 12000 shots before getting replaced. They have my buisness for life.
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Old 03-31-2010, 02:43 PM   #22
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Look at it from my stand point as an engineer...


I know that if I build my strings from a single color with material off the same spool, any creep, stretch or settling that may happen will be the same throughout the string bundle.


I know that if I build my string from the dirty underwear colored (natural) material that the wax/dye will be less or non existent, making the strand diameter smaller and allowing me to make a string of 24 strands that is no larger in diameter than an 18 strand string of the same material that has been dyed. I know that this will allow me the luxury of a more stable string while maintaining the same speed and bundle size.


I know that if I build my string on my Yellowstone jig as I have been doing for the past couple of decades that the string will do everything I ask of it, and will not cause the peep to rotate; nor will I have to continually be twisting the string to maintain draw length and tune.


I know that a string I build for myself is exactly as I wanted it, and not how someone else thinks I want it... because I'm to stupid to know what I want..


Lastly I know that my string will never win a beauty contest, and I don't care..
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Old 03-31-2010, 04:38 PM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JAVI View Post
Look at it from my stand point as an engineer...


I know that if I build my strings from a single color with material off the same spool, any creep, stretch or settling that may happen will be the same throughout the string bundle.


I know that if I build my string from the dirty underwear colored (natural) material that the wax/dye will be less or non existent, making the strand diameter smaller and allowing me to make a string of 24 strands that is no larger in diameter than an 18 strand string of the same material that has been dyed. I know that this will allow me the luxury of a more stable string while maintaining the same speed and bundle size.


I know that if I build my string on my Yellowstone jig as I have been doing for the past couple of decades that the string will do everything I ask of it, and will not cause the peep to rotate; nor will I have to continually be twisting the string to maintain draw length and tune.


I know that a string I build for myself is exactly as I wanted it, and not how someone else thinks I want it... because I'm to stupid to know what I want..


Lastly I know that my string will never win a beauty contest, and I don't care..
I'm not OK with any of that!.........not until you build me some strings too
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Old 03-31-2010, 09:57 PM   #24
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Very Interesting! so just the other day i was thinking 1 solid color string and a different solid color cable..i got to have some colors.
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