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Old 05-03-2010, 09:25 PM   #81
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Originally Posted by Holy Smokes View Post
why is it that we defend our and other peoples yto the death a sacrificing death if I may
we belive in the Christ that died for men
it is waht we Real Americans believe in
not the new age or new muslim one
Sorry Smokes, I don't believe you have to be a christian, or even religious, to be an American. We are a diverse nation of many beliefs and non-beliefs and I respect everyones right to choose. I just wish they would give us the same rights they demand for themselves.
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Old 05-03-2010, 10:58 PM   #82
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Jim, I do understand where your coming from. I am sorry for your loss too, so don't take my response in a bad way.
Thank you pred8er, I appreciate your views on this subject as well. My
Becky thanks you also
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Old 05-04-2010, 05:19 AM   #83
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Originally Posted by Holy Smokes View Post
why is it that we defend our and other peoples yto the death a sacrificing death if I may
we belive in the Christ that died for men
it is waht we Real Americans believe in
not the new age or new muslim one
You're entirely wrong.
"Real" Americans believe in giving others the freedom to believe in what they wish to, and will defend that freedom within this country.
Your words experss exactly what is wrong with religion. It's divisive and exclusionary. If you don't believe "my way," then it's the "highway."
Do me a favor and look up the word "pogrom," and see what religious intolerance looks like in countries that sanction a specific religion, and consider other beliefs heresy.
Or remain in the dark...
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Old 05-04-2010, 05:43 AM   #84
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Originally Posted by TomT View Post
You're entirely wrong.
"Real" Americans believe in giving others the freedom to believe in what they wish to, and will defend that freedom within this country.
Your words experss exactly what is wrong with religion. It's divisive and exclusionary. If you don't believe "my way," then it's the "highway."
Do me a favor and look up the word "pogrom," and see what religious intolerance looks like in countries that sanction a specific religion, and consider other beliefs heresy.
Or remain in the dark...
Ill bet the day you come face to dealth your talking to God. Never understood anyone offended by Christians/religion. Im never offended by an Athiest. You got a choice in this country but once you cross the line on my rights to Trust in God! Which is whats happening right now. I see a very dark future for this country. TomT president wants change and so does TomT. Your getting it! Be carefull what you ask for! Im assuming you know what is a "Real American"? Because I see the values changing in this land we call America. Otherwise TomT if there not like you there not a "Real American"
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Old 05-04-2010, 05:46 AM   #85
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Originally Posted by TomT View Post
You're entirely wrong.
"Real" Americans believe in giving others the freedom to believe in what they wish to, and will defend that freedom within this country.
Your words experss exactly what is wrong with religion. It's divisive and exclusionary. If you don't believe "my way," then it's the "highway."
Do me a favor and look up the word "pogrom," and see what religious intolerance looks like in countries that sanction a specific religion, and consider other beliefs heresy.
Or remain in the dark...
seems to be an exchange of known for unknown
let's see are sacrifice and freedom synomonous
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Old 05-04-2010, 05:54 AM   #86
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Originally Posted by pred8er View Post
Sorry Smokes, I don't believe you have to be a christian, or even religious, to be an American. We are a diverse nation of many beliefs and non-beliefs and I respect everyones right to choose. I just wish they would give us the same rights they demand for themselves.
So you feel this movement to remove the word God and everthing it stands for OK? Wonder how you feel on immigration and them useing your taxes for Health care and actually just about everthing else without paying a dime. Saw them marching yesturday with a Mexican Flag on top of the US flag! Were getting change! I for one certianly dont understand it.
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Old 05-04-2010, 11:28 AM   #87
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Ill bet the day you come face to dealth your talking to God. Never understood anyone offended by Christians/religion. Im never offended by an Athiest. You got a choice in this country but once you cross the line on my rights to Trust in God! Which is whats happening right now. I see a very dark future for this country. TomT president wants change and so does TomT. Your getting it! Be carefull what you ask for! Im assuming you know what is a "Real American"? Because I see the values changing in this land we call America. Otherwise TomT if there not like you there not a "Real American"
DB
I've seen death, been near death, and seen others die, and pulled bodies out of lakes and cars, but that's just life and death, and how we deal with it is personal.
As I've pointed out before, ad nauseum, I'm NOT offended by Christians, or other religions, or the practice thereof, but it MUST be kept out of governance as it can turn into state-sponsored bigotry, as it has in the past in other countries.
Additionally, religious bigotry is the beginning of racial and ethnic bigotry. Just look at the Balkans and what happened there. Look at how we treated the Native Americans, and the Spanish and Mexicans that were here FIRST when WASP's came to the west and southwest.
Here's some words of wisdom from an ancient:
"Zeus now addressed the Imortals:" 'What a lamentable thing it is that men should blame the gods and regard us as the source of their troubles when it is their own wickedness that brings them sufferings worse than any which Destiny allots them."
Homer, The Iliad...
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Old 05-04-2010, 11:33 AM   #88
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Originally Posted by Holy Smokes View Post
seems to be an exchange of known for unknown
let's see are sacrifice and freedom synomonous
Right. History teaches us that religion breeds bigotry, so that's a "known."
The "unknown" is how does mankind make the leap from superstition to humanism...
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Old 05-04-2010, 04:38 PM   #89
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Right. History teaches us that religion breeds bigotry, so that's a "known."
The "unknown" is how does mankind make the leap from superstition to humanism...
please see post #78
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Old 05-04-2010, 09:12 PM   #90
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So you feel this movement to remove the word God and everthing it stands for OK? Wonder how you feel on immigration and them useing your taxes for Health care and actually just about everthing else without paying a dime. Saw them marching yesturday with a Mexican Flag on top of the US flag! Were getting change! I for one certianly dont understand it.
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Dan..........You should really read all my posts before even thinking of asking those questions. I think I have made my feelings known on everyone of those topics in the past.

But let me recap just for you:

Removing the word "God" from everything?: No way. God can be looked at as a general term for any diety of any major religion. I believe that this country was founded under religious principles so to have it as part of any sector of our government doesn't bother me at all......as long as the government doesn't mandate any one religion.

Immigration: Send them all back one time and let them come here legally like our forefathers did. If they come back a second time, they go on the chain gang and do hard labor building the wall and cleaning highways. A third time and they are moved to the "invader" catagory and are treated accordingly.

Flag desicration: While this country gives you the right to express yourself as you see fit, desicrating the symbol of the country that gives you that right means that you do not care about said country, and therefore you do not care about your rights. You give them up, so you no longer have the right to express yourself. There are laws that dictate how a flag can be displayed, let's actually enforce the laws we have, not make new ones.
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Old 05-05-2010, 06:42 AM   #91
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Sorry Smokes, I don't believe you have to be a christian, or even religious, to be an American. We are a diverse nation of many beliefs and non-beliefs and I respect everyones right to choose. I just wish they would give us the same rights they demand for themselves.
did I say that
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Old 05-05-2010, 08:43 PM   #92
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did I say that
Quote:
we belive in the Christ that died for men
it is waht we Real Americans believe in
Sorry. I probably just mis-understood what you were trying to say. No harm, no foul.
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Old 05-06-2010, 07:10 AM   #93
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Sorry. I probably just mis-understood what you were trying to say. No harm, no foul.
Hey live your life as you chose
It has been said
"you don't find many athieths in foxholes"
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Old 05-06-2010, 02:19 PM   #94
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Hey live your life as you chose
It has been said
"you don't find many athieths in foxholes"
True dat!
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Old 05-06-2010, 03:06 PM   #95
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I always like the way some people say we should take religion out of schools.
If I remember right, there was a whole lot of praying right before final exams by everyone. (Including the Teachers) LOL
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Old 05-06-2010, 03:43 PM   #96
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I always like the way some people say we should take religion out of schools.
If I remember right, there was a whole lot of praying right before final exams by everyone. (Including the Teachers) LOL
I often wonder what many do when they face death. I was hooked to 277volt electrical circuit and felt my heart beat increasing/blood pumping through my vanes and the current going through my body with no way to let go. Breaker finally tripped and many said it was surprising I could hold that much current. I was talking to God the whole time. There has been more than a few times I felt my life might be over.

Ran out of air while scuba diving and panic and was caught in the kelp weeds about four ft from the top of the water and was praying then for God to get me to the top.

When you see that chance of life finally ending. I wonder if folks find God at that most crucial time in there life!
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Old 05-07-2010, 12:55 PM   #97
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Right. History teaches us that religion breeds bigotry, so that's a "known."
The "unknown" is how does mankind make the leap from superstition to humanism...
Beg your pardon, but the first statement needs a little bit of fact to back that up. And by fact I mean proof that it was a RELIGION and not an INDIVIDUAL. I can only think of one modern examples of breeding bigotry that would be associated with religion as far as being directly supported (Islamo Fascists). The rest I can think of were done by secularists, or at least done by secular organizations. (KKK, Black Panthers, Natzis, Solviets) Now I will not go as far as to say that religions always do the right thing, but I will say that Religion in general and the Christian religions (ie Catholocism, Baptist, Lutheran, Protestentism, etc) have been a net good for the world.

BTW TomT when you say stuff like "how does mankind make the leap from superstition to humanism" it makes me doubt your claim that you are "NOT offended by Christians, or other religions, or the practice thereof, but it MUST be kept out of governance as it can turn into state-sponsored bigotry, as it has in the past in other countries." Saying that religion is nothing but superstition is VERY offensive. That is why you get such a vehiment reaction. It is basically like saying that, "Women can't be CEOs because they are only smart enough to be in the kitchen," or something else like that. I believe that you are not truly trying to offend those of us who have faith in a higher power and are religious, but you are suceeding admirably.

Oh and religion is intertwined in our governance. If this you doubt please refer to our first US governing ducument: the Declaration of Independence.

"We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness. That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed..."

Basically what this is stating is that government is to uphold the rights granted to man by big G God. This means that God is not only a part of government, it is the foundation and intrensically intwined with it. The first ammendment only states that Government is not to make laws preventing the people from practicing, or making a state religion.

"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances. "

Nowhere in it does it state that religion cannot be a part of government. If you doubt this relize that the first law recognizing a National Day of Prayer was passed THE DAY AFTER THE 1ST AMMENDMENT WAS PASSED BY CONGRESS!! This more than anything else dictates exactly the role that the Founders believed religioin should play in government.

Pray for your country for its government is full of inperfect men.

(Man I have a tendancy to ramble in my responses.)
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Old 05-08-2010, 02:52 PM   #98
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I always like the way some people say we should take religion out of schools.
If I remember right, there was a whole lot of praying right before final exams by everyone. (Including the Teachers) LOL
Mo take God out of shcool who do you have left
the devil
seems that we are seeing alot of stupid and harm in schools these day's that we never experinced in my day
yeah we had a bible verse read and the prayer daily over the intercom
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Old 05-09-2010, 01:08 PM   #99
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Makes me Proud!

: Fw: Way to go Okla.!!!!!







OKLAHOMA MAY JUST BE THE PLACE TO LIVE


An update from Oklahoma :
Oklahoma law passed, 37 to 9, (had a few liberals in the mix), an amendment to place the Ten Commandments on the front entrance to the state capitol. The feds in D.C., along with the ACLU, said it would be a mistake. Hey this is a conservative state, based on Christian values...! HB 1330

Guess what.......... Oklahoma did it anyway..
Oklahoma recently passed a law in the state to incarcerate all illegal immigrants, and ship them back to where they came from unless they want to get a green card and become an American citizen. They all scattered. HB 1804. Hope we didn't send any of them to your state This was against the advice of the Federal Government, and the ACLU, they said it would be a mistake.

Guess what.......... Oklahoma did it anyway.

Recently we passed a law to include DNA samples from any and all illegals to the Oklahoma database, for criminal investigative purposes. Pelosi said it was unconstitutional. SB 1102

Guess what........ Oklahoma did it anyway.

Several weeks ago, we passed a law, declaring Oklahoma as a Sovereign state, not under the Federal Government directives. Joining Texas, yep, Montana and Utah as the only states to do so. More states are likely to follow: Louisiana, Alabama, Georgia, the Carolina's, Tennessee, Kentucky, Missouri, Arkansas, West Virginia, Mississippi, Florida. Save your confederate money, it appears the South is about to rise up once again. HJR 1003

The federal Government has made bold steps to take away our guns. Oklahoma, a week ago, passed a law confirming people in this state have the right to bear arms and transport them in their vehicles. I'm sure that was a set back for the criminals (and Obamaites). Liberals didn't like it -- But ........

Guess what............ Oklahoma did it anyway.


Just a short while ago, the state has voted and passed a law that ALL driver's license exams will be printed in English, and only English, and no other language. They have been called racist for doing this, but the fact is that ALL of the road signs are in English only. If you want to drive in Oklahoma , you must read and write English. Really simple.

By the way, Obama does not like any of this.

Guess what....who cares.... Oklahoma is doing it anyway.
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Old 05-09-2010, 07:46 PM   #100
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Makes me Proud!

: Fw: Way to go Okla.!!!!!







OKLAHOMA MAY JUST BE THE PLACE TO LIVE


An update from Oklahoma :
Oklahoma law passed, 37 to 9, (had a few liberals in the mix), an amendment to place the Ten Commandments on the front entrance to the state capitol. The feds in D.C., along with the ACLU, said it would be a mistake. Hey this is a conservative state, based on Christian values...! HB 1330

Guess what.......... Oklahoma did it anyway..
Oklahoma recently passed a law in the state to incarcerate all illegal immigrants, and ship them back to where they came from unless they want to get a green card and become an American citizen. They all scattered. HB 1804. Hope we didn't send any of them to your state This was against the advice of the Federal Government, and the ACLU, they said it would be a mistake.

Guess what.......... Oklahoma did it anyway.

Recently we passed a law to include DNA samples from any and all illegals to the Oklahoma database, for criminal investigative purposes. Pelosi said it was unconstitutional. SB 1102

Guess what........ Oklahoma did it anyway.

Several weeks ago, we passed a law, declaring Oklahoma as a Sovereign state, not under the Federal Government directives. Joining Texas, yep, Montana and Utah as the only states to do so. More states are likely to follow: Louisiana, Alabama, Georgia, the Carolina's, Tennessee, Kentucky, Missouri, Arkansas, West Virginia, Mississippi, Florida. Save your confederate money, it appears the South is about to rise up once again. HJR 1003

The federal Government has made bold steps to take away our guns. Oklahoma, a week ago, passed a law confirming people in this state have the right to bear arms and transport them in their vehicles. I'm sure that was a set back for the criminals (and Obamaites). Liberals didn't like it -- But ........

Guess what............ Oklahoma did it anyway.


Just a short while ago, the state has voted and passed a law that ALL driver's license exams will be printed in English, and only English, and no other language. They have been called racist for doing this, but the fact is that ALL of the road signs are in English only. If you want to drive in Oklahoma , you must read and write English. Really simple.

By the way, Obama does not like any of this.

Guess what....who cares.... Oklahoma is doing it anyway.
Db We did that last June and notified DC about it
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Old 11-04-2010, 03:45 PM   #101
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Old 11-16-2010, 11:06 PM   #102
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I cannot believe I just wasted time reading this thread! so, I better add just a minimal contribution:

It is really sad how those who preach 'tolerance' are the most UNtolerable people I have ever known, seen or heard.

I feel really sad for those who don't allow God in their lives...Life could be so much better for you. It has been studied and concluded that people with Spiritual lives, live a happier, healthier life.

Obama, just the erogance he displays in his every movement is enough for me to fear him.
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Old 11-17-2010, 07:49 PM   #103
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I cannot believe I just wasted time reading this thread! so, I better add just a minimal contribution:

It is really sad how those who preach 'tolerance' are the most UNtolerable people I have ever known, seen or heard.

I feel really sad for those who don't allow God in their lives...Life could be so much better for you. It has been studied and concluded that people with Spiritual lives, live a happier, healthier life.

Obama, just the erogance he displays in his every movement is enough for me to fear him.
good post wheely
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Old 11-20-2010, 04:28 PM   #104
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I cannot believe I just wasted time reading this thread! so, I better add just a minimal contribution:

It is really sad how those who preach 'tolerance' are the most UNtolerable people I have ever known, seen or heard.

I feel really sad for those who don't allow God in their lives...Life could be so much better for you. It has been studied and concluded that people with Spiritual lives, live a happier, healthier life.

Obama, just the erogance he displays in his every movement is enough for me to fear him.
When I get time to bowhunt , that's when I pray the most " for a great big fat doe " ( management hunt only , I'm not greedy ) !



I thought it was worth rereading !
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Old 01-03-2011, 08:03 AM   #105
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I cannot believe I just wasted time reading this thread! so, I better add just a minimal contribution:

It is really sad how those who preach 'tolerance' are the most UNtolerable people I have ever known, seen or heard.

I feel really sad for those who don't allow God in their lives...Life could be so much better for you. It has been studied and concluded that people with Spiritual lives, live a happier, healthier life.

Obama, just the erogance he displays in his every movement is enough for me to fear him.
The best post on this thread. If you dont have god you dont have much to rely on.
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Old 01-03-2011, 05:17 PM   #106
Holy Smokes
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Daniel Boone View Post
More I learn about this president the more we need impeachment

'Senator' Obama replied:

"As I've said about the flag pin, I don't want to be perceived as
Taking sides". "There are a lot of people in the world to whom the
American

Flag is a symbol of oppression.." "The anthem itself conveys a
War-like message. You know, the bombs bursting in air and all that
Sort of thing."

(ARE YOU READY FOR THIS???)

Obama continued: "The National Anthem should be 'swapped' for
Something less parochial and less bellicose. I like the song "I'd Like
To Teach the World To Sing". If that were our anthem, then, I might
Salute it. In my opinion, we should consider reinventing our National
Anthem as well as 'redesign' our Flag to better offer our enemies hope
And love.
It's my intention, if elected, to disarm America to the level of
Acceptance to our Middle East Brethren. If we, as a Nation of waring
People, conduct ourselves like the nations of Islam, where peace
Prevails - - - perhaps a state or period of mutual accord could exist
Between our governments ."

When I become President, I will seek a pact of agreement to end
Hostilities between those who have been at war or in a state of
Enmity, and a freedom from disquieting oppressive thoughts. We as a
Nation, have placed upon the nations of Islam, an unfair injustice
Which is WHY my wife disrespects the Flag and she and I have attended
Several flag burning ceremonies in the past".

"Of course now, I have found myself about to become the President of
The United States and I have put my hatred aside. I will use my power
To bring CHANGE to this Nation, and offer the people a new path.. My
Wife and I look forward to becoming our Country's First black Family.
Indeed, CHANGE is about to overwhelm the United States of America "

WHAAAAAAAT, the Hell is that!!!

Yes, you read it right.

I, for one, am speechless!!!
yeah like do away with the history of our freedom so the kids want have a base of it so they can replace it with socialism bondage
America is toast folks
if you ever got the message out it is now or go down the tubes to marxism
this ain't no pep talk this is real
the marxist commies are all up in our gov in DC
vote em out


most socialist are atheist
a man with out God I refuse to trust
don't believe the policital lies about thier faith in God it is a sham
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Last edited by Holy Smokes; 01-03-2011 at 05:20 PM.
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