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Old 01-31-2011, 07:51 PM   #1
jessgcmo
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Default Should I remove the string surpressor!!

I bought a 2010 carbon matrix last week. I am working on setting it up for hunter class 3D. I really like the bow and what I am wondering is should I remove the string supressor, as far as I have always known they are for making the bow quieter for hunting purposes. If thats all their for is there any reason to leave it on for shooting 3D. This bow is only going to be used for 3D hunter class. What should I do leave it alone or take it off. Jesse
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Old 02-01-2011, 04:14 AM   #2
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leave it on...will not hurt in the shooting cycle. It anything it may make the bow less jump as you release the arrow.
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Old 02-01-2011, 07:38 AM   #3
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It won't do anything but change the sound of the bow when it goes off and maybe help to keep the string off your clothes if you have to shoot in a jacket or something ( I put mine on for hunting season just for that reason)....it doesn't make it shoot better, and doesn't make the bow "jump" less.

If you don't want it on there then take it off.
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Old 02-01-2011, 07:49 AM   #4
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First thing I do... is take them off my bows..
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Old 02-01-2011, 08:34 AM   #5
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I think you should leave it on the bow. the arrow will not get off the bowstring untill it stops moving forward. if you have saw any slow motion video's the string will go past the B.H. quite a bit. but not always the same amount. with a S.S the arrow will come off the string the same place ever time. I would think this would make the bow a little more accurate. it wont hurt anything being on the bow and could help.
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Old 02-01-2011, 09:08 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by longcut36 View Post
I think you should leave it on the bow. the arrow will not get off the bowstring untill it stops moving forward. if you have saw any slow motion video's the string will go past the B.H. quite a bit. but not always the same amount. with a S.S the arrow will come off the string the same place ever time. I would think this would make the bow a little more accurate. it wont hurt anything being on the bow and could help.
That doesn't add up to a hill of pooo when it comes to accuracy....if it did then every PRO you know the guys that help pay their bills or get all of their income from shooting would have them on their bows. ALL OF THEM.

If what you were saying were true then shooting an arrow through the chrono without one wouldn't even give you the same reading....which I don't have a problem doing.
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Old 02-01-2011, 09:35 AM   #7
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so it sounds like it really doesn't matter either way, I think i'll see what I like better. I have never set up a bow specifically for 3D and didn't know if its needed for a 3D application. I know the pros don't use em but they are shooting with a differnt type of bow desigened for target shooting.
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Old 02-01-2011, 09:44 AM   #8
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Leave it on! IMO there are no disadvantages even for target

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Old 02-01-2011, 09:46 AM   #9
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Leave it on! IMO there are no disadvantages even for target

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Old 02-01-2011, 10:04 AM   #10
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Mike, That's your personal preference and I totally respect it.

There are those that choose otherwise. I've had some top shelf shooters that have had me custom fabricate a String Suppressor on their target bows. Personally I would not have thought it worth the effort.

But then it wasn't my target bow

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Old 02-01-2011, 02:18 PM   #11
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Originally Posted by Brown Hornet View Post
That doesn't add up to a hill of pooo when it comes to accuracy....if it did then every PRO you know the guys that help pay their bills or get all of their income from shooting would have them on their bows. ALL OF THEM.

If what you were saying were true then shooting an arrow through the chrono without one wouldn't even give you the same reading....which I don't have a problem doing.
hey Mr. hornet. go play in a hill of pooo. I see no facts in your statement were a SS would not help accuracy other than pros do not shoot them. do you know all the pro's and what they shoot. I think a SS helps me get a few more points. not a huge amount but 1 or 2 points can be a win lose deal.
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Old 02-01-2011, 03:05 PM   #12
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Originally Posted by longcut36 View Post
hey Mr. hornet. go play in a hill of pooo. I see no facts in your statement were a SS would not help accuracy other than pros do not shoot them. do you know all the pro's and what they shoot. I think a SS helps me get a few more points. not a huge amount but 1 or 2 points can be a win lose deal.
Hornet is fine...Mr. Hornet is my dad

I don't know all of the Pros of course....but I do know a good # of the top Pros and top Joes in the country....and some from outside the country....even have a good # of them on speed dial in the Crack Berry But think about it...if something as simple as adding a string stop made your bow more accurate then I a PRO would have to be pretty dag on stupid to not be using one.

First of all though...I wasn't trying to back anything up with facts....what I stated is pretty much common knowledge it has been proven over and over by many people that one does not improve accuracy....In fact I have proven it myself...my field bow was setup and was pounding all summer. It came time to hunt and all I did 1st was add the SS to keep it off my clothes...everything else was the same. The groups didn't improve....they didn't stay the same either. Mathews has done testing and they have stated that their version will make accuracy worse over time as they begin to wear. I also proved this when I shot an A7....

as for my comment about the chrono....I have done that OVER and OVER and OVER. Just about every time I shoot more then one arrow through one without making a change of some sort the machine reads DUP...which is short for duplicate. Therefore I usually only shoot one If you can't get the same results from a bow shooting the same arrow across one then that is a shooter execution issue. Not a I don't have a SS issue.

Pretty much there are a ton of archers that are better then most of the guys that say that a bow is more accurate or it makes it more consistent with one that don't use one and will tell you the same thing....I am more ikely to believe Javi, a bow company and the PROs that I know (one of them being the #1 archer in the world and another being a 4 time National champion and shooter of the year winner, a Redding winner, a few other guys that are national champions and many others), I also am more likely to trust my own results more then the avg hunter that only really shoots in his back yard or local range and maybe the occasional 3D shoot or even someone that shoots 3D a good bit. The shoots I do now mostly... by the time I finish target #5 I have shot the same # of arrows that your gonna get in to shoot in most 3D shoots and I still have 23 more targets to go....so I know all about consistency

if you setup a SS correctly....no it won't hurt you really.....but it will not improve your accuracy or make you more consistent. PERIOD

There is a place for them....like I said I had one on my hunting bow to keep the string off my coat.....but it doesn't even really make your bow more silent....at least not a great deal. It just changes the sound. My bow wasn't anymore silent with one. My field arrows weigh 334 grains and my hunting arrows were around 360-370 grain range shot from the same bow. It just sounded different.
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Old 02-01-2011, 03:39 PM   #13
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i agree, there is no way a string stop can make any difference in accuracy or consistence. but I've been told that they can also make your bow faster because the nock is coming off the string at a different distance then if you did not use one, like if you watch slo mo of a bow being shot the nock doesnt pop off until the string starts going the other way.... is this true?
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Old 02-01-2011, 04:36 PM   #14
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I have done a lot of testing over several years with lots of different brands and models of bows.

IMO I do not think they make any notable difference in speed or accuracy, but they definitely make a difference in sound and felt vibration.

I'm sure almost all bow companies are not putting them on their bows because they look cool. The trouble is many OEM Suppressors have rubber that is entirely too hard to do the best job possible, and can be almost detrimental in what they should be doing.

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i agree, there is no way a string stop can make any difference in accuracy or consistence. but I've been told that they can also make your bow faster because the nock is coming off the string at a different distance then if you did not use one, like if you watch slo mo of a bow being shot the nock doesnt pop off until the string starts going the other way.... is this true?
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Old 02-01-2011, 06:56 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MeanV2 View Post
I have done a lot of testing over several years with lots of different brands and models of bows.

IMO I do not think they make any notable difference in speed or accuracy, but they definitely make a difference in sound and felt vibration.

I'm sure almost all bow companies are not putting them on their bows because they look cool. The trouble is many OEM Suppressors have rubber that is entirely too hard to do the best job possible, and can be almost detrimental in what they should be doing.

Dan
In all honesty....I have had this conversation with people in the industry....they are being included on their bows because "everyone else has them" or because people are putting them on there anyway...and that's straight from the horses mouth.

Your right though....no change in speed though.
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Old 02-01-2011, 09:52 PM   #16
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Default String supressers

I do respect everyone's opinion and research. That being said I too have seen on youtube in slow motion the string would release the arrow about two inches from the riser without a supresser, and like a bungie cord bounces back and forth so I understand that a supresser would remove some vibration but does'nt this blow the hole theory of a drop away rest (which I do'nt use). If the arrow is rideing on the string that far, the drop away would drop as the arrow is just starting to leave the string which the flechings would be rite at the rest.
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Old 02-02-2011, 12:26 AM   #17
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A string stop can improve accuracy. If you have a string stop that is functioning as a rear stabilizer it will help you hold better. What we need is some SS with a good amount of weight so the hunter class can run a rear stabilizer in disguise.

If you have a tight nock fit, a SS below the grip will cause a bare shaft arrow to impact about 12" high at 20 yards compared to a bow tuned with no sting stop. I had my bow tuned without a SS and then put a SS on and I was amazed at what happened with the bare shaft.
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Old 02-02-2011, 12:42 AM   #18
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I am in the Industry

What's your take on why Randy Ulmer bought 3 MeanV's to put on his Hoyt's?

He likes them because others have them on their bows?

He just likes me?

Actually he swapped out one of his Fuse stoppers for a MeanV he received as a gift that was bought from me (I didn't know it was going to Randy) and then he could tell enough difference he BOUGHT 3 more

Dan




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In all honesty....I have had this conversation with people in the industry....they are being included on their bows because "everyone else has them" or because people are putting them on there anyway...and that's straight from the horses mouth.

Your right though....no change in speed though.
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Old 02-02-2011, 03:22 AM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MeanV2 View Post
I am in the Industry

What's your take on why Randy Ulmer bought 3 MeanV's to put on his Hoyt's?

He likes them because others have them on their bows?

He just likes me?

Actually he swapped out one of his Fuse stoppers for a MeanV he received as a gift that was bought from me (I didn't know it was going to Randy) and then he could tell enough difference he BOUGHT 3 more

Dan
Randy buying them to make his bow more quiet! Randy using them for hunting bows. Some like the fact they make the bow feel smoother and less hand shock. Either way its something each archer should try both ways and keep score. May work for some and may not work for others.
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Old 02-02-2011, 08:02 AM   #20
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Kind of what I was thinking DB

Dan



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Randy buying them to make his bow more quiet! Randy using them for hunting bows.
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Old 02-02-2011, 08:46 AM   #21
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ok last post on this. for me anyway. consistency. I have been shooting since 1950 and shoot 540+ so I think I know a little bit about consistency also . anyway I set up the chrono and hooter shooter. took two bows, a martin and a bowtech. shot them though paper to make sure they were in tune. when I shot them though the chrono with the SS on I got a +or- of 1-3 fps. without the SS it was + 0r - 1to7 fps. will this help accuracy. maybe, but not enough that you would notice. will it hurt the accuracy. no I dont think so.
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Old 02-02-2011, 08:55 AM   #22
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Even though I noticed no major improvements in my groups (I'm hardly a machine) I did notice the same thing in my Chrono tests.

I've had lots of guys say they shot better once they installed a MeanV. Who am I to tell them they are not. I see on the chrono where the speed is more consistent from shot to shot so anything is possible.

I don't advertise they will shrink your groups though

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ok last post on this. for me anyway. consistency. I have been shooting since 1950 and shoot 540+ so I think I know a little bit about consistency also . anyway I set up the chrono and hooter shooter. took two bows, a martin and a bowtech. shot them though paper to make sure they were in tune. when I shot them though the chrono with the SS on I got a +or- of 1-3 fps. without the SS it was + 0r - 1to7 fps. will this help accuracy. maybe, but not enough that you would notice. will it hurt the accuracy. no I dont think so.
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Old 02-02-2011, 09:08 AM   #23
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Never said the thing would hurt accuracy... I just don't need one.
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Old 02-02-2011, 01:28 PM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MeanV2 View Post
I am in the Industry

What's your take on why Randy Ulmer bought 3 MeanV's to put on his Hoyt's?

He likes them because others have them on their bows?

He just likes me?

Actually he swapped out one of his Fuse stoppers for a MeanV he received as a gift that was bought from me (I didn't know it was going to Randy) and then he could tell enough difference he BOUGHT 3 more

Dan
Don't read into what I am saying....Randy pretty much only hunts now. I didn't say they don't have a place. I said they DO NOT improve accuracy and they DO NOT make the bow more consistent.

You are in the industry.....but you DO NOT make bows. There is a difference
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Old 02-02-2011, 03:26 PM   #25
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how can you say that a SS will not help accuracy or consistency when the only FACTS you have is that some pros dont shot them. shooting a bow s/b easy. all you have to do is do the exact same thing the exact same way ever time. that equals consistency which equals accuracy. so I can see were a SS could maybe help some. not a hugh difference but maybe a point or two. would a SS be worth the money for maybe 1 or 2 points. I dont think so. would a SS be worth the money for 1 or 2 points plus less noise and vibration. I think so.
P.S good luck with your shooting without a SS. you will need some
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Old 02-02-2011, 04:09 PM   #26
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Default Nothing new

String suppresors have been around for ever. This is nothing new to archery industry.

Bottomline try it both ways. Might make the bow feel better in your hands.

If it helps use it and if not you really dont have to have it. Think it a good thing for hunters.
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Old 02-02-2011, 04:15 PM   #27
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Try it both ways and use it how you like it. It is yours.



For me, I leave mine on. Especially if I will be shooting with a long sleeved shirt. If the string catches on my sleeve, it will do nothing but hurt accuracy. With the stop, I have never hit my string on my sleeve, coat , whatever.
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Old 02-02-2011, 06:57 PM   #28
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lol wow sounds like I opened up a can of worms...I think from everything I read I will be leaving it on, at least for now. I am definitly no pro. The bottom line as an average joe wasn't necesserily will it improve my shot but more a question of will it hurt my shot in anyway and It sounds like the answer is no at least for someone at my skill level. well guys thanks for all the advise better watch out ya'll keep givin away your secrets to me and I'll be smokin 14's all day at the 3D range....lol hope I put a smile on a few of your faces with that one. Jesse
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Old 02-03-2011, 07:34 AM   #29
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I think it is a "between the ear thing". If you think it helps your shooting and you like the way it sounds and feels, it probably will improve your shooting.
A hooter shooter has no brains or ears.
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Old 02-03-2011, 07:50 AM   #30
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Interesting thread here. Everyone agrees that it helps with felt vibration and noise on most bows.

Now on the accuracy part...

Many say higher brace height means a more forgiving bow.
A bow without a string stop will allow the arrow to stay on the string longer than a bow with a string stop.

When I high speed video tested one of my bows. The bow WITHOUT the string stop allowed the arrow to stay on the string longer (about 1.5") than the bow with a string stop.

So wouldn't this be the same effect as shooting a bow with a higher brace height?

If you have two identical bows with the only difference of brace height, does this mean these two bows are equally accurate?
7" brace height bow without a string stop
6" brace height bow with string stop

I don't know but I know what I saw on the high speed camera.
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Old 02-03-2011, 08:04 AM   #31
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Think about this...


In a Hooter Shooter.....


A bow with a 6 brace height will put arrows into the same hole


A bow with an 8 brace height will put arrows into the same hole


A bow with a 6 brace height and a string stop will put arrows into the same hole


A bow with an 8 brace height and a string stop will put arrows into the same hole




Something like saying that a drop away rest will speed up an arrow because an Ugly Cookie will slow an arrow by 2-3 fps...
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Old 02-03-2011, 08:46 AM   #32
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Anyone that says a String Suppressor does Not quiet a Bow obviously has none either

A Hooter Shooter does Not need a forgiving bow. The Human element usually changes things

Dan



Quote:
A hooter shooter has no ears.
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Old 02-03-2011, 09:15 AM   #33
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Originally Posted by JAVI View Post
Think about this...


In a Hooter Shooter.....

A bow with a 6 brace height will put arrows into the same hole
A bow with an 8 brace height will put arrows into the same hole
A bow with a 6 brace height and a string stop will put arrows into the same hole
A bow with an 8 brace height and a string stop will put arrows into the same hole
But does higher brace height make it easier for a human to put them in the same hole?
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Old 02-03-2011, 09:21 AM   #34
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But does higher brace height make it easier for a human to put them in the same hole?
Depends on several things... but in general because of string angle and position of torque (pivot point) with a deflex riser.. Yes

not so much because of time on string...

You should run some tests with your HS camera on the result of nock fit and arrow weight to this issue..
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Old 02-03-2011, 09:01 PM   #35
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so just to understand you correctly. on a hooter shooter, a bow with an 8" brace height and no SS will put an arrow in the same place as a bow with an 8" brace height and a SS. In my mind that implies that on a theroretical level it does not matter either way. NOW introduce the human element can a skilled archer pick up "MY" bow shoot 30 arrows without SS and then shoot 30 arrows with SS and come up with the same average. and just for arguments sake I say my bow because it wouldn't give the skilled shooter any sort of technical advantage, meaning he may have shot 10 carbon matrix but not one setup identical to mine. Also just to eliminate this issue BTW the skilled shooter has an identical draw length. WILL HE GET IDENTICAL RESULTS??
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Old 02-03-2011, 11:13 PM   #36
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The argument that a string stop will increase your accuracy and shrink your groups is crazy to me.

String stops do three things well when setup correctly already touched on this thread. 1> quiets the bow 2> reduces vibration 3> reduces wrist/sleeve slap.

All three are fantasic on a hunting setup!

On my target setups, I could careless about shock or vibration. All I care about is where the arrow goes .

Couldn't the argument be made that a string stop could potentially HURT accuracy? Not from the product itself, but by allowing inconsistencies in grip and bow torque.?.

If you slightly torque or cant your bow sub 7.5" BH, you can and will get a reminder in the form
of a red mark . Now throw a string stop on and bingo, no more red mark.

Obviously this is not the issue with an archer with experience and proper mechanics but, to the beginner or casual shooter this can be a real issue.

Does a string stop hurt accuracy? With good form NO!

Does a string stop help accuarcy? Scientifically, Who the heck knows! Will a string stop be the difference in the x ring for me? NO!

To the original post, if your not going to be running a v/side bar out the back, leave it on if you choose. Your scores won't be affected either way.

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Old 02-03-2011, 11:35 PM   #37
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i leave my string stopper on my bow and still can make little noise and no one make a prefect, well go back to 1990 bow and shot a deer w/o stop string or silence and still will hit animals but today with high speed bow going to be faster and too late for deer to jump,
important find what is best for you..

i feel good with my quest gs33 and i dont use a silence just a stop string reduce the noise but not 100% but i would say 90%
if i want to change the stop string i would just buy a rubber piece from whoever make a custom rubber whatever it sell at archery shop ..
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Old 02-04-2011, 07:14 AM   #38
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Two part answer for me....

On my hunting bow it helps accuracy just because I always hunt with long sleeves and it keeps the string from hitting my sleeve without torqueing the bow. Not to mention it quiets the bow quit well.

On my target rig I very rarely wear long sleeves and I have no problem hitting my arm and I don't care how loud it is.
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Old 02-04-2011, 10:45 AM   #39
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In my mind if the arrow leaves the string sooner with a ss and you have a drop away rest , then you remove alot of human error of torqing the bow and affecting the arrow flight because the arrow is off the bow compleatly sooner.
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Old 02-04-2011, 12:35 PM   #40
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Originally Posted by vortec 1 View Post
In my mind if the arrow leaves the string sooner with a ss and you have a drop away rest , then you remove alot of human error of torqing the bow and affecting the arrow flight because the arrow is off the bow compleatly sooner.
yes I would think so
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