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Old 02-23-2011, 02:41 AM   #1
kgoss33@gmail.com
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Default Im stumped....

OK,

I get that shooting a release is totally a personal preference, but i have to ask because i want someone to make this make sense.

I have shot a BT for about 3 years now, i love the hinge style release, because of how well i can use them.
Recently, i've really broken down the techniques and mechanics of the release.
That's led me to look at BT style VS thumb style.
On a vegas 3 spot face, i can shoot my monster XLR8 70# w easton lightspeed 3-Ds at a 299 w 21X round.....i shoot well with this set up and the back tension.
How i personally shoot a BT can be done 2 ways....i can hit full draw, click, then with a relaxed hand load up my back muscles on the right side until it fires, or..i can draw, click, and pull against the wall until it fires....i shoot well with both methods....not sure which i like more. Seems like the first one is more natural.
However, im always trying to improve, never satisfied....i have talked to a few pros, and when talking about BT they all have different methods..(which doesnt suprise me) But when i ask about how they activate a thumb trigger, they all pretty much said the same thing...(pros being, ken lantz, levi morgan, Terry reynolds, tom crowe, tim gillingham..*sorta*, and darrin christenberry....)
They all get to full draw, keep the bow against the wall, but dont really pull, then they place their thumbs on the trigger and slowly apply pressure until it fires.
I tried this today and shot phenomenally well for the entire session, then later went back out to try again, and again shot VERY well....i have a silver dollar size dot at 47 yds, and put 4 arrow groups in it over and over and over for a couple hours.....idk why, but i shoot this style well at distance, I havent tried it for a spot round, thats tomorrow....but what im asking is what makes that method more consistent for me? Or for the pros using it?
Here's my opinion.......

When you shoot a BT release, it has alot to do with tension, but being a human, it's difficult to apply the same tension EVERYtime you shoot the bow....causing a few inconsistencies....and adding to that is most bows these days sport 80% let off cams, which makes shooting a bt not as consistent and repetitive as it could be with a lower let off....

When you shoot the thumb style mentioned above, im not pulling against the wall, just keeping it against the wall, then im slowly and steadily applying pressure to the trigger, consistently firing the release everytime, Then you give me the 80% let off cams, and it's very easy to keep the bow against the wall, and just squeeze the trigger...This seems like the most consistent and accurate way to shoot a release.

This is just my thoughts, and opinions, i want yours....ive shot BT aggressively for 3 years, and not pulling thru a shot feels weird to me, but i shoot this thumb style too good to not pay attention, and see if there is a good reason to switch.
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Old 02-23-2011, 06:16 AM   #2
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I'm no expert on thumb trigger releases, but I'll pass on what Dave C. told me.

He shoots the thumb release because there is a little less movement involved in triggering it. Less movement equals more accuracy.

At my level, the hinge and thumb trigger give me about the same accuracy. Apparently you are at the level where this makes a difference.

From some of Dietmar 's posts he seems to be saying much the same thing, except with the wrist release.

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Old 02-23-2011, 07:18 AM   #3
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And Dietmar also once told me "When it crosses that X Just punch it"
You are correct in some aspects and Cant really say if what you are saying is actually the same as what you are doing. First I will say your correct in that the Trigger takes less movement to fire. Second the improved accuracy with the trigger is showing you what the hinge has taught you. Third when they say apply pressure they are refering to pulling pressure not pressure on the trigger. The trigger should be pre loaded with thumb pressure to the point it is about to fire. When the dot settles back down on the X and stops you add tiny amounts of "back tension" only adding as much as allows you to keep the dot from moving off the X. It should only take a very tiny amount as the release is preloaded and about to fire. This allows you to have more control over the shot and reduce the random flier. What sounds like is happening with your hinge is that your pulling yourself off the X by trying to make it go off. I would stongly advise you to not keep setting that trigger off by just adding thumb pressure till it fires bc the success of that will be very short lived as the brain cant keep you from just touching it off. It will start as every once in a while to every few shots and pretty soon you have a nick name like flinchy or mr 295 from the random unexplained 0.
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Old 02-23-2011, 07:33 AM   #4
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I use the same movement to set off a thumb release that I use to set off a hinge release.

Pull into the back wall, building pressure in the back muscles which pulls your elbow to the side, that movement rotates the release in your hands causing the release to fire.

I use a hinge release to practise using a thumb release. I start out every practise sesson with a hinge and once I'm warmed up I switch to a thumb release. If I start stalling on my shot I switch back to the hinge for a round or two. I shoot the thumb release better because there is less movement to setting off the thumb release compaired to the hinge.

If I started using thumb pressure to set off my thumb release I would have a bad case of TP within a day and be right back where I was when I used a trigger release.
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Old 02-23-2011, 08:47 AM   #5
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Thats the thing with BT that always didnt make sense to me , the movement.
The thumb release can be set off with the least movement and is why I went from wrist to thumb.
Incidently I have 11 hand helds and am trying to thin my herd a lil bit and have 3 in the For Sale section of this forum
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Old 02-23-2011, 10:19 AM   #6
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I shoot a Bt almost exclusively...but once in a while I'll switch to a thumb trigger, but I don't ever put my thumb on the trigger for the exact reason Gator posted above....because target panic always ends up coming back after about 50 shots or so.

So my method is to set the barrel so that I can touch my thumb to my first finger and the barrel sits in the crease and I can't "punch" the trigger. Then I can either make a fist by tightening my grip or I can simply pull through the shot like a BT.

Hope this makes sense...maybe you'll get lucky and target panic won't get you. I have it real bad, that's why I switched to a hinge long ago
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Old 02-23-2011, 10:52 AM   #7
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First off, i appreciate the input.

Secondly,
I still havent figured out why i shoot this style well, maybe it's cause it's something new, and it will fade, idk....but just cause these pros can do this and not develop TP, doesnt mean i cant....i understand the concept behind shooting releases, the mechanics, and can shoot any style well. Im just trying to find and stick with what works best for me. I am able to gradually apply pressure with my thumb until the release fires...and i do it very well.

It's like saying someone who shoots a BT release and rotates their fingers thru the shot will eventually get to the point where they punch it, and just snap their wrist back to make it go off...not true at all. I did learn to shoot a release like the typical shooter. I read about BT, asked questions, Watched video, and practiced my a%% off.
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Old 02-23-2011, 12:34 PM   #8
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I just don't have the mental control to fire a release like that.

If it works for you and you found your sweat spot, tear it up...I'm jealous

Just keep ever mindfull of TP, it can sneeek up on ya when your not lookin.
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Old 02-23-2011, 09:08 PM   #9
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ive shot bt for about 9 years and i shoot a hinge release and i like it more than a trigger because if used correctly it should almost be a surprise when it goes off and that means u cant anticipate for the shot to break ,and if you follow the "rules" then u should consistently be in the x ring
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Old 02-24-2011, 02:40 AM   #10
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Rules dictated by a certain teacher who teaches one way, and everyone else is wrong...?

Everyone has a different way of shooting a BT, you could ask 3 of the best spot or 3-D, or FITA shooters on the planet, and i bet they all do something a little different....cant tell levi morgan rotating his fingers is wrong cause it's not what a book or a teacher said, and you cant tell jesse broadwater the way he shoots his, pulling straight back with a relaxed hand is wrong, cause he cleaned outdoor nationals last year ( i believe) shooting this style....or Braden Gellenthien that his method (which is the most text book out of them all) rotates his rear shoulder down and inward from his bow....Or reo wilde that pulling straight through the release, BT and a thumb release is wrong, these guys arent following any rules, they have a personal preference and shoot at a very elite level with completely different styles....
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Old 02-24-2011, 08:39 AM   #11
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Sorry kgoss, I took your post wrong. I thought in your last paragraph you asked for opinions...

If your style works well for you, that's great. Sounds like you already got it all figured out.

Good luck and good shooting brother
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Old 02-24-2011, 11:04 AM   #12
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Rattlin man,

Your right, sorry i got a little heated over someones opinion.
I appreciate the input man!
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Old 02-24-2011, 04:22 PM   #13
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No problem brother...I completely understand getting heated when people say the way someone is doing something is not right....was not my intent.

We're good bro.
I only wish I could shoot that way still...everytime my finger gets near a trigger it goes into spasms....dang tp
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Old 02-24-2011, 06:55 PM   #14
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Idk what you have tried to combat the TP, but if you dont like a hinge, or a resistance style, i suggest trying a thumb trigger set very heavy, i think the heaviest springs carter makes is a 125, or 130#.....put that in there, with a little travel, not much....then take a rope measured out to you, so you can hit your anchor with it, and then just wrap your thumb and pull....i suggest on a rope so u dont have a tendency to go back to your old ways of hammering it, lol.....once you feel good about your shots on the rope, pick up the bow, take off your sight, and start at 5-10 yds....get to your anchor, wrap your thumb, and just pull....then after a week, or 2, whatever it takes to feel comfortable, (no rushing it) put a sight on, and start at 15, or 20....and try just pulling up and aiming, dont fire, dont put your thumb anywhere near the trigger, aim for 8-12 seconds, and let down....try that a for a week, or again until you feel comfortable, then bring the everything together at 20 yds....draw, anchor, wrap your thumb, aim, pull, pull pull...clean break....reset....try this bro.

I hope it helps.
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Old 02-25-2011, 12:22 PM   #15
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first off by rules i meant not forcing the shot to go off, using the tension in your back and shoulders to break the shot, and letting ur pin float around the ring while u look through the pin to ur target. and secondly calm down u asked for opinions and i gave one. not every1 has the same opinion...
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Old 02-25-2011, 12:41 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by archeryassasin View Post
first off by rules i meant not forcing the shot to go off, using the tension in your back and shoulders to break the shot, and letting ur pin float around the ring while u look through the pin to ur target. and secondly calm down u asked for opinions and i gave one. not every1 has the same opinion...


Im in no way heated, just giving my opinion back. Sorry if you were offended.
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Old 02-25-2011, 12:43 PM   #17
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ok my bad man, i thought u were mad at my opinion. its all good
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Old 02-25-2011, 12:43 PM   #18
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Old 02-25-2011, 01:17 PM   #19
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^^^

I think we have an instiGATOR.....lol
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