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Old 05-10-2006, 08:59 PM   #1
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Default What would you do?

If you go to a 3-d shoot and dont have anyone to shoot with, so you go out and shoot by your self. Do you hand in the score card? Just wondering as for the last five or six shoots I have witnessed a guy do this and guess what he placed first at all of them. Something just stinks here I think. I just think that you should have to shoot with at least 1 other person. I have even mentioned this to a few of the different guys that run these shoots and all I get is a chuckle. I am not in it for the trophys, although I would like the recognition someday of being a good 3-der but I just dont see what you get out of cheating......
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Old 05-10-2006, 10:19 PM   #2
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Maybe there's a reason he/she always shoots alone, maybe they don't have anyone to shoot with? I've been to plenty of 3D's by myself, and always handed in my score, although I usually ended up joining a group along the way. It's a great way to meet new people. Although I've never had anyone question my "past" abilities... (injuries), I understand where your coming from.
Under the same situation, I'd try to find a way to join him, this way you can keep track of his score as you go. Who knows, maybe he is that good!? If asked, just say you want to learn from them, since they seem to be one of the best in the area.
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Old 05-10-2006, 11:56 PM   #3
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Here's my view on some of this. Clubs should put a stop to "Trickle Starts" and go to a "Shotgun" start on their shoots. Several advantages to this, everyone starts at the same time and shoot in groups of 3-6 people. All groups are broken by someone not afilliated and two score cards per. You could have 2 start times throughout the day, to accomadate those that can't make an early start.

With a shotgun start, all groups are finishing up at about the same time, so others don't have to wait around all day to see the results. Also cuts down on congestion on the range. In the process of doing this it makes it just that much harder for the pencil pushers.


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Old 05-11-2006, 09:17 AM   #4
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I have witnessed a few of these 'situations' myself, and I do not favor anyone shooting by themselves.
This past weekend I shot the NYS IBO Championships, we had a 'shotgun' start, and groups of 'friends' were broken up with other shooters and double score cards were used. This definitely controlled the situation.
At lesser shoots, there is no double scoring or breaking up of friendly herds. So it is at these shoots where I believe most troubles happen. You have to shoot these shoots for what they are. Be honest with yourself if you do shoot alone, you are not really 'beating' anybody, but yourself. If one has to cheat to make oneself be a better shooter, then they are in massive trouble and headed for nothing but disaster. They will be outed sooner or later when the opportunity to cheat does not present itself and they shoot like they REALLY can. (crap)
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Old 05-11-2006, 07:12 PM   #5
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If I were to show up at a shoot by myself and shoot by myself, I wouldn't turn in a card. In fact, one of the shoots we attended here locally wouldn't accept a guys card because he did shoot by himself. He would have won first place, but they said since he shot "lone wolf" they couldn't take his score.

Most of the shoots I attend here locally aren't of any real merit, mainly just for fun or small trophies and I mainly shoot them just for fun and practice. I do like to see where I ended up, but I don't care about the awards. As long as I shot true, and scored true that's all that matters because cheating doesn't benefit you if you're serious about bettering yourself at the sport. But, if it's a bigger shoot, especially at a place I haven't been to before. I try to shoot with someone else that doesn't know me, and preferably someone local and that has good standing at the club I'm at. If for nothing else than to have that validity. You just never know when you're going to turn in that scorching card that might be 10 up! I'd like to have someone there to say.. "Yeah, he shot that.."
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Old 05-11-2006, 08:32 PM   #6
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If someone could just clear up something for me? What is a shotgun start? I think my powers of common sense are right but just so I know that I am right. I like to tell my self, I told you so every once in a while....
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Old 05-11-2006, 08:46 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BOWMAN
If someone could just clear up something for me? What is a shotgun start? I think my powers of common sense are right but just so I know that I am right. I like to tell my self, I told you so every once in a while....
In a shotgun start everyone has to be at the shoot at a given time, then everyone is drawn out to shoot in certain groups. Some places around here will let you shoot with one person you know, but group minimum is three to four so there will always be someone in the group that isn't affiliated with you or the people you know. Once the groups are determined, you are then assigned a stake to start on. If there are 10 groups of four, typically they would be assigned to stakes one through ten. You then procede to shoot at the stake you are assigned to.. Say it was stake #5. Your next target would be stake 6 and so on until you come back around and shoot stakes one through four as your last targets. Alot of places that use shotgun starts will also use two scoring cards and two score keepers. Any discrepecy in the cards results in the lower score being given or sometimes the target being thrown out with no score given at all. This helps to keep things honest. Not to mention the fact that there will usually be shooters on either side of you at the stakes both before and after the target you are on.. This also cuts down on cheating because the chances of somebody seeing you shoot a five and later seeing an 8 or 10 on your card for that target could come up and they might say something. I know that if I've already shot, I'll usually check out the people shooting next to me just to see where they are hitting. Mainly just out of curiosity though, I've never challenged anyones scores.

Also, one advantage to shotguns starts is that everyone starts at the same time and more or less will end at the same time. That way, you don't have to wait around half a day to see where you placed.
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Old 05-11-2006, 08:53 PM   #8
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a shotgun start is when the entire feild starts a one time. so if registration is from say 7-9, then they can break up groups and mix in the single shooters, set up a shooting order and the shoot starts at say 10.


I sometimes shoot alone, but I don't turn in my card. I see alot of guy's do it though. I guess I always used 3D for practice, if you estimate yardage wrong or pull your shots on a hunt it's hard to doctor your score.
I think if you intend on turning in your card you should hookup with the next group in, or the clubs should make it manditory no less than 3 shooters per group. I know of 2 or 3 clubs in my area that do.
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Old 05-11-2006, 08:57 PM   #9
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Thats what I thought, thanks for clearing that up.
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Old 05-11-2006, 10:29 PM   #10
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I would talk to the fella and see if I could shoot with him. Maybe get some pointers from him. Then if he shoots like crap I would hang him from a tall oak tree.......j/k maybe he had an off day. Give him another chance then politely ask him to stop cheating.
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Old 05-11-2006, 10:40 PM   #11
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You know the funny part is that there are alot of people talking about this guy. We had a couple guys refuse to take score cards and when asked why they pointed to the guys truck and said why bother HE already won. He was still standing there getting out his equipment. So I figure I guess I am not the only one. And I dont feel so much like a sore looser anymore.
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Old 05-11-2006, 11:07 PM   #12
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They may be cheating, they may not be. Know this...cheaters will be caught at some time or another. It's only a matter of time.

If you get a chance, shoot with the guy. You will know right away.
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Old 05-15-2006, 06:52 AM   #13
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I don't think you should call this fella a cheater, without knowing if there is a reason for him shooting alone. Maybe he has a limited amount of time to shoot. I would just talk to the guy and see. Labeling someone as a cheater is pretty serious.
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Old 05-15-2006, 04:08 PM   #14
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I went alone on this past saturday, my cousin had too work.walked to the practice bails I think I had released two arrows and was aproached by another shooter that had a friend, turned out they were shooting novice hunter class and hunter classbows I didnt think twice and accepted invite. one guy took 2nd I shot 3rd.have always gotten lucky and made new friends and had alot of fun.saturday I hung around and helped put targets away met club members and now hpoefully I am no longer the stanger at the shoots.Dont extend your hand,It might get shook. Scot
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Old 05-22-2006, 08:16 PM   #15
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Very Good Post Rob!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Old 05-28-2006, 08:17 PM   #16
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Well I guess cheaters do get caught.....

Was at a shoot this morning. The shoot was 2 halves of fifteen. Myself and one of the guys I sometimes shoot with were waiting for another guy to arrive. We noticed the cheater in question show up w/his buddy this time. They signed up in the top gun class. Went to the practice bales and started to warm up. The third guy in my group, finally being ready went to the practice butts and started warming up. These two clowns went on there way and started shooting, the last I would see of them, or so I thought. Seems as though when they finished the first half they went back to the club house, which is legal. We went right from the first half to the second and started shooting. Who comes up behind us but the CHEATER. I happen to notice that he is not anywhere near the stake he is supposed to be shooting at. He happens to be at the next closest stake. Hhhhmmmmm. So I watch a little closer and whenever he gets to the stake, guess what, out comes the range finder. NOW IF THAT AINT CHEATING, I DONT KNOW WHAT IS. So when we get back to the club house. Him and his peice of garbage buddy, comes and sits at the table and starts adding the scores up. He says to me when he is done "so did you break 200" and him and the buddy start chuckeling. At this I said back, "well I know one thing, YOU did". He just looked at me. So the guy I am shooting w/walks over to the scorring table and when they hand in their cards says "how come those guys are signed up for Top Gun and shot from the Open stake?, and I happen to add "yeah and when did they legalize range finders at this club??
Well guess what, DISQUALIFIED was written on the paper. So For the guys that thought I should shake his hand, just remember that they may shake your hand but its the knife the other guy is sticking in your back that YOU SHOULD BE AWARE OF.

This is not ment to afend anyone and certanly not hurt any ones fellings, just wanted to let you know how the story is progressing.
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Old 05-29-2006, 10:03 AM   #17
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Ok so this time he was a cheater but probably 90% of the time the guy is not. I think archery is like golf most of us want to win but not to the point of cheating. There are some bad apples in the bunch but we must all like you and your buddy keep an eye out for them. You Adam I do not think hurt any feelings here just simply done the right thing and proved him for what he was and that my friend is a LOWLIFE CHEATER. Good job my friend.
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Old 05-30-2006, 06:12 AM   #18
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There is always a first time, but this was not his first time. Every form of archery he has been in around here there has been controversy.
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