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Old 08-22-2004, 07:39 PM   #1
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Default Comments on the MAC Championship?

I have heard some disappointing comments on the MAC championships.
I was told there were many close shots even for the Comp class. In fact, I was told that most of the Comp Class shots were under 25 yards.

If this is the case, I can only imagine how high some of the scores were.
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Old 08-23-2004, 09:47 AM   #2
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Question

Chris:

Do you shoot these tournaments?

Brenda
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Old 08-23-2004, 10:10 AM   #3
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I normally do but work has kept me away the past two years. I was "MAC Shooter of the Year" a couple years ago.
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Old 08-23-2004, 10:10 AM   #4
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Default Close Targets

Chris-

Yes, there were a lot (30-40%) of close targets 10-20yds, but 90% were rock rascals with 12 rings the size of dimes and depending how many were in your group you could be shooting for a safe 10 on those.

I will say the 11 that were in the open were very demanding due to the windy conditions. Scores were not as high as you would have thought, a handful of 315+ scores.

For my first time I enjoyed myself, took 5th in MCOMP and won a wolf target so I can't complain, but I do know about a couple of incidents that should I have been involved with it, the event wouldn't have been as fun, but hopefully they will take people's suggestions to improve the event for next year.
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Old 08-23-2004, 11:12 AM   #5
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Double Lung' em' - I agree with you the shoot wasnt as easy as you might think. Sorry to hear that something happened - I hope you are going to share this information with the Mac Committee or atleast shared it with the ALA.

Chris - You need to get your boss involved in archery and maybe he/she will let you come back to play with us.
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Old 08-23-2004, 11:49 AM   #6
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Default mac

Well I was 1 of 5 people that were involved in the problem they had. I will do my best to be fair in all my statements.
I arrived at the shoot at 11:00am Sun. That was the soonest I could get there. Upon arriving I was asked if I minded shooting in a group of 5? I told the official I wasn't fond of the idea, 4 of us were comp shooters. I told him we stand a greater chance of having glance outs on little targets. He said they did not have enough score keepers to send out so we were basiclly shuck. So we finally went out about 11:30- 11:45. ( MAC rules say you must start before 12:00) The 1st 11 targets were in an open field with windy conditions. That ate up a lot of time. By target 12 we entered the woods. At this point it was almost 2:00. We had a range official walk with us for 3 targets and he left. Then 3 targets later an official came back on a 4 wheeler to check on us and left. He came back 2 more times and left. With only 6 targets to go the 1 st official that was with us as we entered the woods returned and asked how things were going. We said fine. He looked at his watch and told us we had 20 min. to shoot 6 targets or risk being DQ'ed. So he called for another official to score so we could break up into 2 groups and finish on time. Well by then panic had set in and we were nervous about making the time. Another scorer arrived and we broke up. I shot with another guy and the other 3 shot together. The guy I shot with and myself were running from target to target just to get them all shot. I did okay, but the others all dropped a bunch of points. The guy I shot with dropped 11 points in 3 targets. Needless to say there were some very unhappy people. The problem I have with the whole thing was they waited until it was to late to bust the group. This should have been done one of the four times an official came back to check on us. Never the less the MAC has lost several good shooters. In my opinion, the MAC drpped the ball. I hope they will learn from this and make things better for those that chose to continue to shoot the MAC. I, along with others have learned. That is to stay away, till they fix the problems. Jeff Borg (unconserned shooter)
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Old 08-23-2004, 04:17 PM   #7
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That's terrible. If they knew you were going to be strapped for time, why in the world did they send 5 people in a group.

I am sure there were some very unhappy shooters in your group. Why didn't the range offical tell you earlier that time was going to be a problem and break the group sooner.

Having to run between targets is not right. The other shooters didn't have to run between targets.
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Old 08-23-2004, 04:38 PM   #8
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Jeff:

That just plain sucks. Is it stated in the rules of the MAC for time limit to shoot a complete course? I just wasn't up to shooting it this past weekend because I have been traveling for work all last week. After hearing that I am happy I did not go. The MAC good be a really good org. and I know a handful of people try hard but they just make some bad decisions sometimes. I look forward to shooting with you when the indoor season starts.

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Old 08-23-2004, 06:28 PM   #9
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Like DBL'em said, there were 10 or more targets that were 20 yrds or less. And when you have 4 comp. guys that can shoot, there is usually 1 or more kick outs. There were several goups of 3 that had an advantage over some of the larger groups. There was even a group of 7. Now that is just plain dumb.

Chopper, there is no rule for time allowed to shoot the course, just a deadline of 4:00 pm. The funny thing was they didn't have the scores done till almost 6:00 pm. I don't see why making us rush was such a big deal.

Another thing, I shot the Money class and won it. They handed me my big check for all of $26.00. It cost me $30.00 to shoot it. I didn't even break even. All that aggervation for $26 doesn't seem worth it.
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Old 08-23-2004, 07:20 PM   #10
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Jefro,

Do they have any of the scores posted. I just like to see how everyone finished.
$26 that's sad.
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Old 08-23-2004, 07:59 PM   #11
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Question I cant believe what I am reading!!

Jefro,

Im sorry about what happened yesterday but I disagree with what you are posting on here. You were asked by me and another range official if the group you were put with was satisfactory. I asked you and B.R. personally!! I recall both of you telling us that yes, that was fine. If fact, you stated that you would like to shoot together anyway. If you were not happy with the situation, I feel that you were given every opportunity to state otherwise seems how I asked you twice. And, I did volunteer to be your scorekeeper if you didnt want to go out in a group of five. Yes, I said that I really didnt feel like going back out, but I would. I said that twice also. Another thing...if there were range officials checking on you numerous times, at what time did you ask for a scorekeeper to break the group to get you through the course quicker? Yes a group of 5 will require more time to shoot but who knew how long it would take exactly??

Thanks
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Old 08-23-2004, 08:04 PM   #12
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MAC Rules state: Article IV, Section A, #1, letter t. There is a 12:00pm noon registration deadline and a 4:00pm deadline for submitting scorecards on Sunday at the Championship Shoot.
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Old 08-23-2004, 08:56 PM   #13
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Default It was suppose to be 100.

If you get on the website for the mac it states 100 dollars for the winner,I was discusted,now I feel like puking...
I was wondering if there were a pack of dogs,I know I saw atleast 2 wolfs and 2 coyotes,alot of the same targets...like deer,I was expecting everyone to be different really...and atleast a few at 50 for us comp shooters.
35-40% is underestimating 20 yard shots...I shot the same course you guys did,come on,once we hit the woods,what the hell was that.
I thought I was a cub shooter again.
7-9 targets in a row?
bullstine.........Ridiculous target selection for a so renown shoot.
I looked forward to that shoot for months,I thought it sucked.Sorry I have nothing less to look forward to and don't care if I go to it next year really.I had more fun at monroe qualifying,thanks.
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Old 08-23-2004, 09:02 PM   #14
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The rules state that there will be a $100 prize awarded to the TOP GUN, not every class.
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Old 08-23-2004, 09:58 PM   #15
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Cindy-
you can disagree with me all you want. I was told by Dave S. that they did not have enough score keepers to go around. At that point I didn't care. My issue is not that I had 5 people in my group, it is that the MAC screwed up by not breaking the group sooner. You can try all you want to take the blame off the MAC, but it is your responsablity, not mine to ask for a score keeper. As far as that goes, when does having a score keeper even make differece? You people didn't require it at any qualifiers.
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Old 08-23-2004, 10:51 PM   #16
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Cindy in response to your e-mail:

Hi Jeff,
I just read your post on 3dshoots.com. I have a few
questions for you. First, I stood there and asked you
and Bryan personally if you guys were ok with the
group that we had arranged. I recall both you and
Bryan saying that it was fine. Why on earth didnt you
say anything at that point about having too many
people in the group? I stood there and said that I
would go as a scorekeeper...yes I said I really didnt
want to go out again but I would.
I said that more
than once!! Dave Shumway was right there with me and
recalls the same conversation. Did you ever ask for a
second scorekeeper when visited by range officials on
the course???? Once I found out the story behind
Bryan being so upset, I fought...fought HARD for you
guys. There was no reason at all that any of you
should have been rushed on that course. That was a
long course and it took 4 hours or more for groups of
3 to get thru there. If you do the math, a group of 5
should be allowed at least 5 hours for that course and
that's not allowing time to pull arrows and walk to
the next target. I was VERY upset myself when I heard
that you guys were rushed.
I personally,and
especially the guys at ALA worked hard for this shoot
this year and its a bit disappointing to see messages
like yours posted all over. For being Pro/Semi-Pro
shooters, some of the guys sure have poor
sportsmanship.
I went out to let Bryan know that we
needed to check his equipment yesterday not knowing he
was upset about anything and he was down right rude to
me. For what reason??? He also had every chance in
the world to change the situation from the start but
chose not to. We, all of us that have a part in
running the MAC, are not claiming to be Pros/Semi-Pros
so we are bound to make mistakes. So, please, if you
ever hear or see something that doesnt seem quite
right...dont be afraid to voice your opinion on the
spot. Sometimes people appreciate that little added
help. Jeff, Im sorry that you and the others in your
group had a bad experience this year. I hope that one
day you can attempt to help us rather than hurt us by
posting negative messages.

Thanks
Cindy @ MAC Central

1. Yes I recall you coming over to our group and asking if this group was OK. We really didn't have a choice I thought, since Dave told me there were no available scorekeepers. I don't recall you asking ME if we needed you to keep score. The number of shooters in the group wasn't an issue at that point.

2. What exactly were you fighting for? It was all said and done by that time.

3. Since you yourself realized that it was taking groups of 3 or 4 at least 4 hours, you yourself should have known that a group of 5 would be at least 5 hours. Why wasn't someone sent out to us when you had more scorekeepers available who were willing to go out. Even at the halfway point it could have helped so we wouldn't have had to rush. When the Range Official came out to check on us 3 different times what was he doing? Was he checking our time? Why wasn't a scorekeeper offered to us any an of these times?

4. As an "Amateur" shooter (not Pro or Semi-Pro), I don't feel it's my responsibility to ask for a scorekeeper, it's the officials of the MAC to realize the potential for a problem and fix it, such as needing a scorekeeper. It's obvious by your e-mail and the amount of trips the officials made out to check on us, that you all knew we weren't going to make it by 4:00 p.m.

5. My point is this, I never had a problem with the group I was shooting with, the problem is that the MAC is trying to make this all seem to be MY problem instead of theirs. My only problem is that the MAC didn't act in a professional manner by maintaining a shooting schedule as needed, doing whatever it takes to ensure that all shooters have the opportunity to finish the course without being rushed.

6. Now, with the course having to be finished by 4:00 p.m., why did it take until 6:00 p.m. to start giving out the awards? Since the 4:00 deadline was such a big deal, the awards should have started right away. Don't tell me you wait until all scores are in to start tallying totals. That just wouldn't make sense or be the smartest thing to do. Surely, you are getting final totals together as they come in so everyone is ready to start the awards ceremony by 4:00 when the last group comes in. So why then, did we all have to stand around for 2 hours?
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Old 08-24-2004, 06:56 AM   #17
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Default What if....

As far as I can tell,there is no doubt in my mind that the mac was not coordinated at all properly,even from my standpoint and veiw.
I got shooting at around 11:00,w/a group of 4.
When I got done at 3,everything was being shut down,food and all was getting put away,and I was thirsty and hungry when I got done people.
What was I suppose to pack a lunch....
I am not the one complaining about the being rushed issue...but 12 to 4 was what I thought the rules were.
But next time I'll make sure I wake up at 4,and drive for 2 hours to shoot at 1/2 yard off stakes for a hour at 20 yards before going out.
Maybe the 50 yard PRACTICE stake shouldn't even have been out there and removed and placed at 10.
I don't know about other comp shooters but when a mbr or cub wins the top gun something is not quite right,is it boys and girls.
I'll leave my mckenzie cards at home next time at my next MAC shoot too,cindy.
If you could get any targets you wanted from ganders funds,how come there were 2 or 3 of the same targets,no BISON like on your flyer,no sheep,no hyeena,no lion,no jaguar,no gazelle,fallow deer,no javalina,should I go on...
????Question...
For my first year in getting my foot in the door in tournament archery,Which I love so dearly todate.
How come I feel like Jeffro and many others including myself where not impressed with the MAC tournament?
I payed a total of 45 dollars to shoot in a semi-pro event that got me a Local 461 aurora water bottle,a 10 dollar off coupon to gander mountain to my next purchase of 50 dollars or more,and a 2004 archery deer hunting information sheet that is readily available when I purchase my deer tags this fall.
Not to mention the gas to travel all over creation and the time I spent to find out what the MAC is all about.I did get food as well.
I do this for fun,but take it to my heart and my livelyhood and look to the future to be a better archer.
This years Mac tournament did very little in my eyes to say the least but leave me with a empty stomach.

I was not to happy my sight was off during the shoot and I didn't shoot as well as I have been due to that fact alone.
But,really I was wondering what jeffro feels like with his whole wad of lute he won,a tank of gas for you dude?
Maybe even a towel,headband, or a pair of running shorts...for next years event.....
You might want to buy some rhinehart cards......
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Old 08-24-2004, 08:44 AM   #18
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I really don't believe that the answer lies in going tit-for-tat.

I think we are forgetting here what the MAC is (a group of clubs) the MAC board merely steps in to resolve issues.

What I would like to know is what is the proposed solution from the shooters and please keep in mind we are all here because of the love of archery. Unfortunately sometimes i think we forget that. Brenda
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Old 08-24-2004, 08:56 AM   #19
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Lil' Cherokee is right. It's unfortunate that something like this has happened. Now the question is how does the MAC fix it so it doesn't happen again.
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Old 08-24-2004, 09:44 AM   #20
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Default 2hr wait after 4pm

I would say the biggest annoyance to many was the long wait after the last group walked off at 4pm and the awarding of prizes at about 6pm, especially when the food people packed up and left by 4pm.

Personally I wouldn't mind seeing it set-up similar to the ASA and have a shotgun start w/ 4 random people to a group. That would be 120 people and I don't think that many shot this weekend. Start at 10-11am and be done by 3-4pm all in one day.
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Old 08-24-2004, 10:25 AM   #21
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Brenda-
that is why I brought this up, so it does not happen to someone else in the future.
The MAC rules state they will step in and resolve any problems that occur. That is why I feel it was their responability to handle the situation. That is where I think the problem occured.
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Old 08-24-2004, 10:41 AM   #22
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Hi Jeff,

I understand.

Have a good day!

Brenda
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Old 08-24-2004, 10:52 AM   #23
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It is really too bad all of this has happend and there is so many bad feelings. I have always had a good time at MAC qualifiers and championships. I will continue to support all the clubs and organizations in this area with these shoots. I have helped out and/or run several 3Ds in the past so I know it is impossible task some days. I hope everyone can come together and make this an even better series.
Steve
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Old 08-24-2004, 05:12 PM   #24
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Default It was intended to be a semi-pro event

I have had better shoots at my local club.Atleast the food was there and I shot all different kinds of animals and they wasn't 8 in a row at less than 20.
All I'm really saying here is that my expectations are high in archery.
If my sight wasn't bumped out 3 yards walking on to the course I would have kept up with the cubbies.
And what I need to recognize is that if... there are many affiliated clubs who shoot archery as much as some of us do...We wouldn't have people preparing for the biatholon,or.... we wouldn't be considered comp in the traditional course if we did.
I don't know how funny you people think this is,but,I hope they frisk me down at the next years mac.
I think that I will sneek my own targets in.....
How many guys does it take to cover up a 12 ring anyways?
Me and you,that's about it.....would you prefer to shoot 3rd forth or fifth.
Ask the best archers what they think about shooting dead last at a turkey with 4 guys infront of him,what kind of fun is that.
I'm telling ya if I have to wait around for two hours to receive 36 dollars and starve myself in the process next year I'm gonna start a campfire with my trophy and cook some veny weiners over it. ha.
What kind of changes need to be made after that,well I don't know but,Jeffro has the best going for him in archery....He made his point.
Maybe if you ask him nicely he will set up the targets next year.ha,ha.

Last edited by glenny; 08-24-2004 at 05:16 PM.
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Old 08-24-2004, 06:52 PM   #25
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Default Observations

Unfortunately, I was not able to attend Sunday due to a schedule conflict. Our club had it's traditonal shoot at the same time (talk about having your mind on something else).

1. As far as the Vendor's leaving early maybe someone should have pulled a gun on them to make them stay (sarcaism) I guess they didn't want to make money.

2. ALA had no choice on target selection this was Gander's call they supplied the targets, deciding which ones they were supplying against ALA's wishes.

3. The groups should have been broken up. At the same time showing up constantly late does not help matters. This happened last year too. You know how long it takes to shoot a course show up in time to get it done!

4. Your right two hours to wait was to long for the awards to be given out.

5. Top Gun was created with the intent that a Cub or Youth would win. Unforutanely that was not the case for quite some time. This year it was!
Great Job Brady!

6. Equipment guidelines better explained and thought out.

7. It should be mandatory that "EVERYONE" read the rule book.

8. Some of the shooting stakes do need to be reconsidered, an example MH (male hunter compound) should be longer yardages and Trad shorter for instance.

9. Limiting clubs is not a good idea. We want this to grow with new clubs, sponsers and mainly a fresh shooter pool.. Iowa, Indiana, and Michigan clubs are interested in joining.

10. I also have spent alot of time this season asking you guys and gals what you would like to see on the MAC, this wasn't done for my health. Constructive and intelligent ideas are sought and welcomed Thanks to the people that took time to express these ideas at the shoots.

11. Look to these web sites for the year end meeting time and place.
You are all welcome to attend just do everyone a favor and leave all attitudes at home.

Thank you for your time.

David Lee
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Old 08-24-2004, 08:04 PM   #26
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This was my first year attending the MAC.I had alot of fun at the qualifiers,but would have to admit i wasnt real impressed with the mac.I dont see where it was Jeffs responsibility as a shooter to have to tell staff what to do to make things run smooth.I dont go to someones house and tell them what to do!? Thats just how i was brought up.I didnt go expecting to win any money my skills are not up to that level yet,but 26$ for first place???That would of been a rude awakening considering you have more money invested in entry fees than that.All in all i will shoot next year to have fun and to become a better archer,hopefully Mac can take some responsibility and learn from there mistakes.Archers are supposed to help archers not push blame around.(Jeff very impressive running from target to target and still getting first !!!).
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Old 08-25-2004, 07:14 AM   #27
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Default overlord?

What is this a war we are in or something...I have a Lord,and I have a Attitude and I am at home.
You want to know something.
My critisism makes sense to some about the mac sucking this year and I'm sorry.
It was my first one and I couldn't compare it to last years because I wasn't there.
I will say this even again 2 or 3 other archery clubs I went to this year,were more exciting, challenging,entertaining,and organized.
If Top Gun was created for or solely so that anyone could win it,how come mens comp was shooting at cub stakes.
You and them, set it up so that my whole years dreams and expectations were litterly crushed by seemingly making it like a boysscout shoot.
I will not justify vendors leaving early because they weren't making any money,my freind payed 5 dollars for a stinkin hotdog and I litterly begged for one.
I think the target selection was WEAK as compared to other shoots I have been to,take a look at your flyer,what was on it? A BISON....and what would even a 5 year old kid expect to see?
A bison could have been the last target at 52 yards,but no it was a large deer I hit with the end of my stabilizer,no joke....
I have to say this,I wasn't to happy my sight was off in the first place,once I got to my first target,I knew that it was off,more or less half way through the course(itwas over),so,I didn't even care what my score was,I didn't care if I won first place or last,I didn't care at all.I knew there was no way to change it,I just wanted to atleast enjoy the day for what it was worth to me.I was glad to just be alive and thanking the lord above for letting me be a part of it all.
I did care I was there and that I enjoyed myself because I was in it and it was like a honor to finally be shooting with real archers.
Suppose maybe I should have been better prepared and sighted in before I showed up,but I felt rushed to get out there and shoot anyways.I shot with people in fbr and mbr,I am in comp,what is that.
I would really be super pissed and you would have found risers stretched over a alligator target if someone would have come out there and told me to hurry up.I'm not kidding either.
Why do I get so emotional about archery anyways?
Well,
It's what some of us are living for....
Think about that....

Last edited by glenny; 08-25-2004 at 07:23 AM.
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Old 08-25-2004, 11:01 AM   #28
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Let's try to keep the emotions in check as much as we can here. I know quite a few of you are disappointed in the championship. Now let's see what we can do to fix the problem.

Here's is what I see that are issues that need to be looked at.

1) If the all shooters must be off the course by a certain time, document it in the rules. Also do not send large groups together as this will be a problem.

2) Comp/MBO/MBR stakes should not be set so close. Does there need to be an average distance for these classes? There should not be so many targets under 20 yards for these classes?

3) I am sure everyone figured the championship would be similar to an ASA or IBO national as far as distances go. This should be considered.

4) Some form of food and refreshments should be available at the shoot. This is the first championship I have heard of that didn't have this available. This shoot normally takes quite a while to complete so food is a necessity.

5) Target selection in the past hasn't been an issue that I remember. Most guys expect to see really good targets especially at the championship. From what I was told (don't know for sure) but the MAC was able to choose any targets they wanted.

6) I know a lot of things are left up to the club. I think the MAC board needs to set some better guidelines for the championship hosting club. This would include course setup and facilities.

7) I do think pier groups for shooter of the year is a great idea.

None of this is meant to be a slam at the MAC or the hosting club but we need to address these problems so we can make the MAC a national caliber shoot. I believe this is the major goal.
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Old 08-25-2004, 12:09 PM   #29
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I agree with Chris!! - Lets solve the problem not continue attacking each other. Before this is read there is nothing intended in this response to finger point at any shooter, MAC or ALA, Sauk, Gander etc..


Let's try to keep the emotions in check as much as we can here. I know quite a few of you are disappointed in the championship. Now let's see what we can do to fix the problem.

Here's is what I see that are issues that need to be looked at.

1) If the all shooters must be off the course by a certain time, document it in the rules. Also do not send large groups together as this will be a problem.

Response:
The rules state : There is a 12:00pm noon registration deadline and a
4:00pm deadline for submitting scorecards on Sunday at the
Championship Shoot.
Assigned times and peer grouping as is done in ASA and IBO will resolve this issue.
The rules also state groups will be broken - nothing against the people i normally shoot with (husband included). But i prefer to shoot with my peers makes me a better shooter.


2) Comp/MBO/MBR stakes should not be set so close. Does there need to be an average distance for these classes? There should not be so many targets under 20 yards for these classes?

I dont shoot comp- perhaps one of the gentlemen or ladies that does would like to suggest something on this one. I still liked the last target sorry guys.


3) I am sure everyone figured the championship would be similar to an ASA or IBO national as far as distances go. This should be considered.
It is only the IBO and ASA run these shoots, the MAC Board does not
the clubs do. Should they?


4) Some form of food and refreshments should be available at the shoot. This is the first championship I have heard of that didn't have this available. This shoot normally takes quite a while to complete so food is a necessity.

Sorry Chris there was a food vendor there. Vendors are welcome unfortuantely i guess from what i read he left before the awards were done.
How do you keep him there against his will?


5) Target selection in the past hasn't been an issue that I remember. Most guys expect to see really good targets especially at the championship. From what I was told (don't know for sure) but the MAC was able to choose any targets they wanted.

This deal fell through with Gander I am not on the board but from what i heard. Gander's Corporate person that Sauk Valley was able to deal with last year and gain all those wonderful door prizes from stepped down and ALA did not have that this year. But atleast we were foruntate enough to have it one year.
Also from what i heard Gander is now publicly owned - this change took place and played a part on the 1st paragraph, as the contact that was there was lost.


6) I know a lot of things are left up to the club. I think the MAC board needs to set some better guidelines for the championship hosting club. This would include course setup and facilities.

I agree to a point - facilities yes
Not sure what you can do about keeping a Vendor longer then he wants
to stay.

7) I do think pier groups for shooter of the year is a great idea.

I totally Agree - Peer Grouping and shooting times should be implemented.

None of this is meant to be a slam at the MAC or the hosting club but we need to address these problems so we can make the MAC a national caliber shoot. I believe this is the major goal.
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Old 08-26-2004, 06:30 PM   #30
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Default I have to agree with you,lil cherokee...

I know I soley sound egotistical and demeaning,at the way the mac was this year.
I do want to say what I feel about it in general,and that's so there would be something executed on it.
No matter how rude or inconsiderate to other archers who probably did alot of hard work to make this years mac happen,I still think they should see what we here are really looking at.

I think that the targets should have been all different,as in yardages,and animals.

I think that gander mountian did a unexceptable poor job in this so called contributing on targets...

I also know you can't hold vendors down with ball and chain,come on,be realistic,,,shooters are shooting from 12:00 to 4:00,so they should be there till awards are given out,or the last shooters on saturday have eaten.

The practice butts should be more available to atleast 4 people at a time,really at the right yardages not a 1/2 yard shy.

The doorprizes should be doorprizes,I still am wondering if I won anything.qualifiers are on a list,so why not give them out when they show up,makes things welcome and all,a little more hospitality...

If someone wanted to come as say family or freinds,there should be some kind of way of killing four hours for them.
Are we family and freinds here or what?

I think there should be different sponsership in the mac tournament so that there is more money generated and more organizations are involved.

I would be wondering if 3d shoots would even help out,and everyone,me being one on this website, as members could give a small effort we could have a part of helping out a shoot like the mac be a special event I dreamed it would be in the first place.
What do you people think.

Last edited by glenny; 08-26-2004 at 06:35 PM.
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