Archery Forums 3DShoots.com
Find Archery Shoots near you  |   Advertise on 3DShoots.com

Go Back   Archery Forums 3DShoots.com > Archery Forum > Bowhunting forum
 

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 08-08-2008, 06:19 PM   #1
nyeyooper
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Pennsylvania
Posts: 2
nyeyooper is on a distinguished road
Question Aluminum vs carbon for an older bow

I have a High County Archery bow (31" draw and 70#, about 10 years old) that I have used successfully for elk in the past. This year, I need to upgrade a few things on before I head to MT for the hunt, and am considering converting from the 23-17 Eastons w/125 gr Zwickeys to a carbon type arrow. Question - is it worth it and will I need to use a lighter broadhead and shorter arrow? The truth is, us old dogs don't change easily, and the tradeoff between speed and penetration is one I'm not sure I have enough experience to properly judge. Any suggestions on arrow selection would be appreciated.
nyeyooper is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-08-2008, 10:37 PM   #2
Werd
Senior Member
 
Werd's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 1,230
Werd is on a distinguished road
Default

Look into carbon express and easton. They make really nice carbons. When I was 12, I used aluminums, Now granted, I was only pulling 50 lbs back then and 72 now, but I did a chrono of both arrows, an alumii, and carbon. alumiis shot at 260fps and carbons at 295, so i did get a huge increase. Thats with both 100g. broadheads. The only thing you get from alumii to carbons are speed and no more bent arrows lol. I feel i lost impact penetration.
__________________
"I have a passion for whitetail deer, not a passion for killing them. The fact that I deer hunt does not make me their enemy, but their guardian."
I play snake
Werd is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-08-2008, 11:20 PM   #3
bullspotter
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 1,047
bullspotter is on a distinguished road
Default

I would tend to think the carbon arrows would be the popular choice, they seem to hold up better then the aluminums, but will still break. However the speed gain will depend on the weight of the arrow, not what its made of. A 450 gr aluminum arrow will be close to the same speed as a 450 gr carbon arrow right? I think carbon arrows create a stiffer spine, so you can get away with a lighter arrow to gain some speed, keep in mind you should shoot a total arrow weight of 5gr per lb of draw weight. I favor the easton acc for hunting, Where abouts in MT will you be hunting? And when? Hope this helps!!
bullspotter is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-08-2008, 11:46 PM   #4
Werd
Senior Member
 
Werd's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 1,230
Werd is on a distinguished road
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by bullspotter View Post
I would tend to think the carbon arrows would be the popular choice, they seem to hold up better then the aluminums, but will still break. However the speed gain will depend on the weight of the arrow, not what its made of. A 450 gr aluminum arrow will be close to the same speed as a 450 gr carbon arrow right? I think carbon arrows create a stiffer spine, so you can get away with a lighter arrow to gain some speed, keep in mind you should shoot a total arrow weight of 5gr per lb of draw weight. I favor the easton acc for hunting, Where abouts in MT will you be hunting? And when? Hope this helps!!
H.o. 5 grain per lb. for me that would be 360 grain. I shoot carbon express 4560's hunters with blazers and 100gr, crimson talons. im way off.
__________________
"I have a passion for whitetail deer, not a passion for killing them. The fact that I deer hunt does not make me their enemy, but their guardian."
I play snake
Werd is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-08-2008, 11:54 PM   #5
bullspotter
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 1,047
bullspotter is on a distinguished road
Default

5 gr per lb minimum just to be safe, if your over no big deal. Im right at 6 gr per lb for my hunting setup.
bullspotter is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-09-2008, 03:07 AM   #6
kbohunt
are u a fat boy?
 
kbohunt's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Moseley,Va
Posts: 3,237
kbohunt is on a distinguished road
Send a message via Yahoo to kbohunt
Default hiya ny

Quote:
Originally Posted by nyeyooper View Post
I have a High County Archery bow (31" draw and 70#, about 10 years old) that I have used successfully for elk in the past. This year, I need to upgrade a few things on before I head to MT for the hunt, and am considering converting from the 23-17 Eastons w/125 gr Zwickeys to a carbon type arrow. Question - is it worth it and will I need to use a lighter broadhead and shorter arrow? The truth is, us old dogs don't change easily, and the tradeoff between speed and penetration is one I'm not sure I have enough experience to properly judge. Any suggestions on arrow selection would be appreciated.
Well ya ran into another old dog but i have learned a few tricks on tha way.
your askin alot to change a set-up thats worked for ya on elk but ill see if i can give ya some option's

i really need to know your total arrow length..but it sounds like around maybe 30.5-31.5 in that range.
i wouldnt change arrow length but i would to gain speed cut the arrows to within 1in of tha front of your bow atleast.
and carbon is a better way to go..there alot tuffer
on elk off my bow at 70lbs i would use
Beman ICS Hunters--500's with 4' vanes..100gr Steel-force either hellfire or sabortooth titanimum's

The bemans will run ya right at $65-70 a doz.un finished 80 finished
but you wont need no more after ya get a doz..its not like alluminum lol
if you only hunt you'll have them 3 years later atleast.

your gonna get alot more speed and still slice like a razor thru and elk with these.
i normaly use 3 inch blazer vanes but with a long lead cutting blade like the steel-force ya need more wing back there lol
ive found that out.
You'll, want the hellfire 100 or the sabortooth hp i put pic's up for ya at tha bottom of tha page..

i friend of mine used this same set-up in maine for a moose
i set his whole bow arrows and everything for him.
hope it works for ya and have a great hunting season
__________________
kbohunt

Bows,07PSE,MOJO-3D,05Flash
Arrows..beman ICS hunter
SURE-LOCK sights..Extreme scopes..TT rest
FBSA-MEMBER
Wheely Custom Quivers & Poston Stab's..Made in The U.S.A

Last edited by kbohunt; 01-15-2010 at 08:00 PM.
kbohunt is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-09-2008, 10:50 AM   #7
nyeyooper
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Pennsylvania
Posts: 2
nyeyooper is on a distinguished road
Default Thanks for the info

I appreciate the advice - of course, what I really want to do is win the lottery and buy a new, fully decked out state of the art rig. Oh well. I think the relationship to weight versus speed is a good point - unless I go lighter, the energy transferred will be the same. Regarding the toughness, I appreciate that point - as you know, it is really easy to put a kink in an aluminum arrow. I actually have some Steelforce broadheads I got a few years ago for a hunt, haven't shot anything with them but they do look deadly. If I downsize on arrow weight, I guess the recommendation is that I move to 100gr broadheads? Also, when I look at the catalogues, i see that for a 65-70# pull bow, they are sayng a Beman 340 (heavier arrow) for a 30-31" draw. No problems with flexure when firing the lighter arrows?

I am going to SW MT, near the Bitterroots. I have hunted there with friends from MT for about 10 years - not so many humungo elk, but soem nice bulls and great, gorgeous country. When the aspens are in color, (late Sept, early Oct) and the elk are bugling, if that doesn't trip your trigger you are really not cut out for the hunt. One drawback is getting those suckers out - a few years ago I got lucky on a 5x5, and it took 10 hours with three of us and a couple of ATVs to get him out. Once we hit the road around dark, my buddy gave the bad news - he had finished up all the beer in camp!! What a disaster! Fortunately, Montana is a friendly place and some passing hunters were able to loan us enough to see us through. A lot of hardship in the High Country when you are chasing elk!

By the way, a lot o walking too - only use the ATVs up to where they are allowed and then hike it in and out. The O2 is tough (6000 to 8500 elevation) and if you have packed on pounds during the summer, make sure you try to pack them off before the trip, or you will not be happy. Best investment is great pair of hunting boots (I use Danner Raptors- the lace to the toe is really good in steep country and they are very sturdy.) Forget cotton camo - it can rain/snow anytime and then you will shiver like the proverbial dog crapping razor blades.

In all seriousness, if you are a bowhunter and you haven't had the experience of an elk coming in to a bugle/cow call, raking the trees and generally raising hell in the area right next to you, then you are cheating yourself out of one of life's great treasures. Just make sure that if you go you scope out the outfitter (unless you have prior knowledge of the area, an outfitter can really make a difference) - most are really good, but as always, there are a few jokers in the deck. Also, get in shape - you aren't going to get many elk by sitting in a stand - you need to pretty much be able to walk all day, in tough country, and be able to get up the next morning and do it again. I love it.

Last edited by nyeyooper; 08-09-2008 at 11:09 AM.
nyeyooper is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-09-2008, 12:35 PM   #8
kbohunt
are u a fat boy?
 
kbohunt's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Moseley,Va
Posts: 3,237
kbohunt is on a distinguished road
Send a message via Yahoo to kbohunt
Default hi there

Quote:
Originally Posted by nyeyooper View Post
I appreciate the advice - of course, what I really want to do is win the lottery and buy a new, fully decked out state of the art rig. Oh well. I think the relationship to weight versus speed is a good point - unless I go lighter, the energy transferred will be the same. Regarding the toughness, I appreciate that point - as you know, it is really easy to put a kink in an aluminum arrow. I actually have some Steelforce broadheads I got a few years ago for a hunt, haven't shot anything with them but they do look deadly. If I downsize on arrow weight, I guess the recommendation is that I move to 100gr broadheads? Also, when I look at the catalogues, i see that for a 65-70# pull bow, they are sayng a Beman 340 (heavier arrow) for a 30-31" draw. No problems with flexure when firing the lighter arrows?

I am going to SW MT, near the Bitterroots. I have hunted there with friends from MT for about 10 years - not so many humungo elk, but soem nice bulls and great, gorgeous country. When the aspens are in color, (late Sept, early Oct) and the elk are bugling, if that doesn't trip your trigger you are really not cut out for the hunt. One drawback is getting those suckers out - a few years ago I got lucky on a 5x5, and it took 10 hours with three of us and a couple of ATVs to get him out. Once we hit the road around dark, my buddy gave the bad news - he had finished up all the beer in camp!! What a disaster! Fortunately, Montana is a friendly place and some passing hunters were able to loan us enough to see us through. A lot of hardship in the High Country when you are chasing elk!

By the way, a lot o walking too - only use the ATVs up to where they are allowed and then hike it in and out. The O2 is tough (6000 to 8500 elevation) and if you have packed on pounds during the summer, make sure you try to pack them off before the trip, or you will not be happy. Best investment is great pair of hunting boots (I use Danner Raptors- the lace to the toe is really good in steep country and they are very sturdy.) Forget cotton camo - it can rain/snow anytime and then you will shiver like the proverbial dog crapping razor blades.

In all seriousness, if you are a bowhunter and you haven't had the experience of an elk coming in to a bugle/cow call, raking the trees and generally raising hell in the area right next to you, then you are cheating yourself out of one of life's great treasures. Just make sure that if you go you scope out the outfitter (unless you have prior knowledge of the area, an outfitter can really make a difference) - most are really good, but as always, there are a few jokers in the deck. Also, get in shape - you aren't going to get many elk by sitting in a stand - you need to pretty much be able to walk all day, in tough country, and be able to get up the next morning and do it again. I love it.
I appoligize
I gave you the wrong arrow so sorry
I was thinking the higher # for some reason but its backwards lol
I shoot Beman Ics 400's off of 64lbs 29inch length
For you would be the 300's
sorry about that..500's are lighter.
Im booking a trip as we speak back to Ohio This year
I just got thru sugury and im gonna try to make the trip back out there.
What you said about the elk hunt i agree 100 %
There's 2 other things i wanna do before i can no longer pull back a bow and thats get an elk and a black bear.
Ive taken 2 wildboar 1 verylarge
and ive taken 100+ deer in the past 35 years bowhunting but only have 7 on tha wall and not very big..virginia deer 1of them 20inchs wide 138 score
i missed a big one in ohio last year at 41yards in the 160class the hoss weighed around 300lbs and had my heart racein ..lol but thats what its all about...if my heart stops racein than i should quite huntin
you have a great bowseason
kenny
__________________
kbohunt

Bows,07PSE,MOJO-3D,05Flash
Arrows..beman ICS hunter
SURE-LOCK sights..Extreme scopes..TT rest
FBSA-MEMBER
Wheely Custom Quivers & Poston Stab's..Made in The U.S.A
kbohunt is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 03:10 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Copyright 2004 3DShoots.com