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Old 10-04-2004, 09:34 AM   #1
RuffedgrouseII
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Default Missed shots from a treestand

After fifteen years of bowhunting, I've finally decided to abandon my hopes for a big Buck and take a few Does for the table. (Translation, I have never taken a deer with a bow.) Since this seasons opener, I have missed 5 Does. My arrows consistently fly over the deers back.

I am hunting from a treestand. My stand is set at sixteen feet and when standing for a shot, I assume I am at around twenty feet in the air. I have repeatedly ranged the field corner, where I am hunting, and have ranges from 16 - 32 yards. Most of the deer come across the field and into my corner at about 25 - 30 yards, broadside.

The first deer I shot over was mis-ranged. She was thirty, I shot 40 yards. However, the next deer was at a solid 25 yards. I put the twenty yard pin on the lower third of here vitals and pulled the trigger. To my dismay, there was nothing but back hair in my Spitfire Pro. Even though her head was down and she was grazing, she dropped pretty quickly at the sound of the bow.

I am shooting a Mathews "LX" set at 60 lbs, with a Trophy Taker drop away rest and CX 200 arrows cut to 25-/1/2" with 100 grain Spitfire broadheads. I have even taken to putting Sims strips on the riser shelf, under the prongs to silence the bow. The bow is extremely quite and launches an arrow at 276 fps. So, I am confident in my equipment and shot making ability out to 40 yards. But, I continue to shoot over the backs of these deer.

Last night, I launched three arrows at three different Does. I had them ranged at thirty yards, put the thirty yard pin on the lower third of the vitals and shot right over their backs. I even put the twenty yard pin on one that was a little closer and zipped right over the back of her. I saw my final arrow shoot 1 foot over the deers back!

Can the angle and height of my shots make that much difference? At our archery club, standing at about 14 feet, on our treestand station, I am dead-on from 10 to 20 yards. Why then, are my shots going so high, when I am in my hunting treestand? Should I switch to a pendulum sight or just climb into a treestand of the same height in my backyard and try to dial the bow in. I am becoming increasingly frustrated and would appreciate some sound advice and insight. I am afraid my friends are going to start calling me "Vegetarian" if I don't put some venison on the table soon.
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Old 10-04-2004, 10:55 AM   #2
Huntinfool
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When you practice your shots from the stands do you only shoot field points or have you shot your broadheads? If not shoot your broadheads. I usually am up around 20 feet and hit a doe dead on at 12 yards on the first of October.
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Old 10-04-2004, 11:20 AM   #3
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Default Broad heads or Form

Shoot your broadheads and see if they shoot the same as your target tips, from the ground or tree. If they don't then you will have to tune for them, or by some mechanicals that open up on impact. If they do then your not keeping your arm/shoulders square with your body, as if you where on the ground. That's why they created pendulums, they compensate for the angle created(less than 90) when you just move your arms down at an angle to the deer, instead of bending at the waste to keep everything the same as if you were on the ground. Hope this helps otherwise go get a pendulum I haven't heard anything bad about them, just haven't shot with one. Good luck!!
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Old 10-05-2004, 08:41 AM   #4
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Shots from 20ft up and ranged with a rangefinder will go high. Especially at close range. If you 20yard pin is zeroed in on the ground and you are 20 ft in the air, if that doe is 15 yards you will have to aim LOW to hit it. At under 10 yards you will probably have to hold so low you are aiming about 3-4 inches under the deer.

Climb up in your tree and range a leaf or something you can get a good bead on and shoot at it. You will notice the shot goes high. Now you will know how low you will have to hold. Deer ducking the arrow or jumping the string is a pain and does happen. I now aim at the heart so if they don't duck, I get a heart shot. If they do, I get lungs. Usually end up with a lung shot.

The reason they go high is gravity only works in one direction. Normal arrow trajectory climbs, levels and falls. When you shoot at a downward angle the amount of climb required is less than when shooting on level ground. I hope this make sense.

One other MAJOR important note: You must bend at the waist. You want to maintain the 'T' formation as much as possible.

I hope this helps.
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Old 11-17-2004, 09:08 PM   #5
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Is it possible that your anchor point changes while shooting from a stand? At thirty yards your bow should not shoot that high.
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Old 12-12-2004, 12:18 PM   #6
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I would also suggest practicing bending at the waist with the same gear you're hunting in, including your gloves.
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Old 05-25-2005, 09:10 AM   #7
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Default Missed Shots

Quote:
Originally Posted by RuffedgrouseII
After fifteen years of bowhunting, I've finally decided to abandon my hopes for a big Buck and take a few Does for the table. (Translation, I have never taken a deer with a bow.) Since this seasons opener, I have missed 5 Does. My arrows consistently fly over the deers back.

I am hunting from a treestand. My stand is set at sixteen feet and when standing for a shot, I assume I am at around twenty feet in the air. I have repeatedly ranged the field corner, where I am hunting, and have ranges from 16 - 32 yards. Most of the deer come across the field and into my corner at about 25 - 30 yards, broadside.

The first deer I shot over was mis-ranged. She was thirty, I shot 40 yards. However, the next deer was at a solid 25 yards. I put the twenty yard pin on the lower third of here vitals and pulled the trigger. To my dismay, there was nothing but back hair in my Spitfire Pro. Even though her head was down and she was grazing, she dropped pretty quickly at the sound of the bow.

I am shooting a Mathews "LX" set at 60 lbs, with a Trophy Taker drop away rest and CX 200 arrows cut to 25-/1/2" with 100 grain Spitfire broadheads. I have even taken to putting Sims strips on the riser shelf, under the prongs to silence the bow. The bow is extremely quite and launches an arrow at 276 fps. So, I am confident in my equipment and shot making ability out to 40 yards. But, I continue to shoot over the backs of these deer.

Last night, I launched three arrows at three different Does. I had them ranged at thirty yards, put the thirty yard pin on the lower third of the vitals and shot right over their backs. I even put the twenty yard pin on one that was a little closer and zipped right over the back of her. I saw my final arrow shoot 1 foot over the deers back!

Can the angle and height of my shots make that much difference? At our archery club, standing at about 14 feet, on our treestand station, I am dead-on from 10 to 20 yards. Why then, are my shots going so high, when I am in my hunting treestand? Should I switch to a pendulum sight or just climb into a treestand of the same height in my backyard and try to dial the bow in. I am becoming increasingly frustrated and would appreciate some sound advice and insight. I am afraid my friends are going to start calling me "Vegetarian" if I don't put some venison on the table soon.
HI TRY PAPER TESTING YOUR BOW AND THEN IF THAT DOESN'T WORK TRY GOING TO A DIFFERENT ARROW REST I THINK SOME OF THE NEW DROP AWAYS ARE GOOD BUT IF THERE IS ANY INCONSISTENTCIES IN YOUR ARROWS YOU CAN GET FLIERS ALSO BROADHEADS DONOT FLY THE SAME AS FIELD TIPS SO SHOOT YOUR BROADHEADS TO SEE WHERE T HEY R GOING BUT IF YOU HAVE DONE ALL OF THIS THEN THE PROBLEM MAY BE THAT WHEN SHOOTING FROM A TREESTAND PEOPLE NATURALLY DROP OR RAISE THIER SHOOTING ARM AS THE RELEASE LETS GO MAKE SURE YOUR RELEASE IS NOT SET TO HEAVY THAT CAN MAKE YOU LIFT OR LOWER YOUR ARM AFTER THE SHOT
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Old 05-30-2005, 08:16 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris
Shots from 20ft up and ranged with a rangefinder will go high. Especially at close range. If you 20yard pin is zeroed in on the ground and you are 20 ft in the air, if that doe is 15 yards you will have to aim LOW to hit it. At under 10 yards you will probably have to hold so low you are aiming about 3-4 inches under the deer.

Climb up in your tree and range a leaf or something you can get a good bead on and shoot at it. You will notice the shot goes high. Now you will know how low you will have to hold. Deer ducking the arrow or jumping the string is a pain and does happen. I now aim at the heart so if they don't duck, I get a heart shot. If they do, I get lungs. Usually end up with a lung shot.

The reason they go high is gravity only works in one direction. Normal arrow trajectory climbs, levels and falls. When you shoot at a downward angle the amount of climb required is less than when shooting on level ground. I hope this make sense.

One other MAJOR important note: You must bend at the waist. You want to maintain the 'T' formation as much as possible.

I hope this helps.
so true, i couldnt have said it better myself
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Old 07-19-2005, 01:57 PM   #9
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Default @ things you need to do ...

1) buy, install and start shooting a Whisker Biscuit and a pendulum sight such as the Trophy Ridge sight or ANY good pendulum sight. I guarantee you will have better success. No guess work in ranging the target from 0 to 35 yards, no worrying about keeping your arrow on your rest, you can really concentrate on just keeping one pin on the deer.

2) buy a 3D deer target and start shooting with your pendulum sight from a raised shooting postion (one you shoot at) either from a safe spot on your roof, a secure tree stand in your yard, a freinds yard or at your hunting location

do these and youll be good
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Old 07-22-2005, 06:41 PM   #10
glenny
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Default It doesn't matter....really

I have shot a trophy taker and fixed pins long enough to say that isn't the problem nor a solution to resolve shooting over deer.
The anchor and form sounds to be the culprit here.
I can only recommend you shoot atleast a block target if not a deer target, out of a treestand or elevated platform at the same height you intend shooting with the exact setup you are shooting deer with.period.
You must practice this....
I know exactly what I have done after the shot if it's a bad one usually,but.
Have a freind watch and critic your form if you can.Some archery clubs have platforms,I know 3 that do,you will find me on one of them religiously in september.And I shoot almost every day as well.
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Old 07-24-2005, 07:30 AM   #11
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glenny you may have shot Trophy ridge sights but it makes no sense at all to say he's shooting over deer because of his form, none, because If he says hes "consistently" hitting a target from an elevated practice stand then he's good to go. He is practicing from an elevated stand and hitting his fixed target he knows is at 20 yards or 30 yards, he is adjusting his pins to the practice target. When he's shooting at a deer he has to rangefind or guess the distance then its a whole differnt ballgame. Plus if he is only hunting from a treestand why shouldnt he use a pendulum sight? Thats what they are made for, and they work perfect for his hunting situation. The Trophy Ridge can be locked so you shoot from the ground as well as its intended use from tree stand, no brainer.

Like I said, buy a pendulum sight, get in a stand, use your rangefinder to set the target distance and sight it in, or you can listen to glenny and work on your form LOL.
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Old 07-24-2005, 08:51 AM   #12
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Default Fixed pins and a trophy taker.

I know he said his first deer he missed the yardage by 5 yards.
The second deer came in and perhaps could have jumped the string,no matter how quiet his bow is.
He says he is shooting a trophy taker drop away,as I do,and there is no reason to change that,they do work.
=The speed?almost 280.Fast enough,but,
Practicing at 20 ft. and at 14 feet is a significant difference in height and should be compensated for.Especially at 30 yards.
I have no quarell about using a pendulum sight,alot of hunters love em' and that is fine if your confidence is in them and they are working for you.
Personally?
I just don't beleive in anything with moving parts,exposed springs,anything plastic,and surely that can be effected by any weather conditions.
I choose a sight that has usually all metal components and a 2nd & 3rd axis available.
The form issue may be the culprit I did say,and further reveiw? You know what it is most of the time?,
2 out of the four deer I have missed,excluding one deer I have missed and not recovered, was all due to not reading the body language,whether or not you may think they are alert or not,it is what they are doing when you shoot that is the key.
They(whitetails) have away of moving the wrong way at the wrong time because they are alive living breathing creatures aren't they?
Adjusting from 3d's and paper targets to the real thing is not easy for everyone,by no means,even I have failed to comprehend what that deer will do even at 15yards,and have missed yep,a dandy because of it.
So,what am I driving at?I guess practice comes with experience.
I know one alpha doe that will bust me every year,she just knows to look in the trees,why?who knows,maybe she has been shot at more than once,she heres,baah, and she gets ya every time.And I almost got her a few times,almost.But,shes a real beauty and more intellegent than I ever thought any deer to say the least,plus she puts out usually two fawns every year and so,I could care less if I shoot her anymore.
These deer perhaps have been shot at,bleated at,or perhaps are just plain lucky and get even more educated as hunting season progresses by being shot at as time goes on and how much hunting pressure you have on your property.I have virtually none.
I went out last night scouting and watched The alpha doe get strait downwind of me,at 450 yards, she scented me and my fiance,and walked completly in the other direction.Why I could say the only way this one certain doe would ever be shot is with a rifle,not to mention how bucks usually are anyways.
She actually took the edge of the clover all the way around the feild and got in the woods,it's july 23rd.
I know sometimes it just don't matter what time of the year it is,or what ya do to harvest your deer,sometime along the way,someone along the way said it best and called hunting not shooting...right?
I know the only way I am going to ever get good in a treestand is to practice from one,you got a climber?
Take it to a comfortable height and practice from it.
Chris said to bend at the waist,you may want to try bending at the knees slightly and the waist,practice at the same heights you hunt at,with the exact setup you are intending on hunting with,till you are confident and you repetively are consistent.Make sure that you anchor exactly the same.As consistency from 0-to-fourty improve you might want to look at the variables that change within your yardages on the givin shots you shoot at.It should make the difference for reasons you are missing.
You will know exactly what you are doing,and perhaps you can correct it by not shooting over or under any more deer.
I want to see some pictures of some deer this year.
I surely am looking forward to showing you mine.

Last edited by glenny; 07-24-2005 at 09:01 AM.
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Old 10-09-2005, 11:39 PM   #13
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Did you adopt any of these changes for 05', if so, have they helped?

I've missed three does high in the last two seasons, two last season and one opening day this year. I was tuned and ready, 20-25 yard shots, and sure enough flew right over the top. All misses have been from a 14ft stand.

Last season I shot thunderheads and thought possibly the fixed blade caused a planing high. Nope, shot a steelhead expandable and had the same result.

I'm thinking it's the "bend at the waist" issue. I don't have access to a stand and practice entirely on the ground. Interested to hear what you've come up with, as well as any other opinions on this.
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Old 10-24-2005, 01:14 PM   #14
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It would seem to me that if you practiced from the same height that you intend to hunt with the same equipment that you intend to hunt with ,the results should be very predictable.Also, your bow should be sighted in from that elevated position,rangedfinder varified from that same position,to ensure repeatability. If you dont bend at the waiste when you sighted in ,then you won't have to bend at the waiste when the shot comes.
Practice what you intend to do during the hunting scenario with what you intend to do it with.When that shot finally does come,all the practice that you did should subconciously come thru without you having to remember to do this or do that. Do remember the old addage however, PICK A SPOT. AIM. and FOLLOW THRU.
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