Hypothetical Question

poorman · 02-06-2009, 11:48 AM

You walk into a bow shop. On the way in you see a sign on the door that states if you break it you buy it. You duely note the sign and continue in. After looking at several bows you find one that you would like to shoot. Talk to the store owner and he gets you set up with a demo bow and walks you out to the range. On you third shot the top limb splinters and the bow disinigrates in your hands. The shop owner looks at you and says wow! It looks like you just bought your self a ne bow.

Would you pay for it???

Looney Bin · 02-06-2009, 11:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by poorman

You walk into a bow shop. On the way in you see a sign on the door that states if you break it you buy it. You duely note the sign and continue in. After looking at several bows you find one that you would like to shoot. Talk to the store owner and he gets you set up with a demo bow and walks you out to the range. On you third shot the top limb splinters and the bow disinigrates in your hands. The shop owner looks at you and says wow! It looks like you just bought your self a ne bow.

Would you pay for it???

No Way, not if he was watching me shoot it. If I was using it correctly under normal use and the limb splintered it should be under warranty. Not to mention if you were using it incorrectly and he was watching, he should have stopped and corrected you.

my3sons&I · 02-06-2009, 11:57 AM

No way would I pay for it. The only way I could be held liable is if I set the bow up myself. Otherwise the shop owner or his employee set the bow up and could have caused the malfunction. Or it came from the manufactur
with a defect.

Too Many Hobbies · 02-06-2009, 12:01 PM

I would certainly not pay for the bow that he had me using under his supervision. That sign, to my understanding, is directed at you if you are handling the products without the supervision of the shop employees. If they do not know enough to prevent you from damagaing what shoud be new equipment they need to find another line of work. Furthermore I believe that Looney is correct in that the bows would be under warrenty so that the owner would simply send it back to the manufacturer. Oh and i would certainly not buy a bow from that store or manufacturer ever again.

Daniel Boone · 02-06-2009, 12:03 PM

Have warrantys that cover things like this. It isnt the bow shop owner fault either.

It does happen. Most shop owners would never try and make you pay for it.

But they certianly could say its a warranty issue.
DB

BUNNYMAN · 02-06-2009, 12:39 PM

"you broke it you bought it......."

whats good for one is good for the other......

people need to be held accountable......

the rule was posted and you choose to continue using said equipment.....

jbsoonerfan · 02-06-2009, 12:56 PM

So let me put it to you this way....

Let's say you have 25-30 people walking around with bows in their hand. You are the only person there and you a trying your best to watch each and every person. Although you thought you had a good eye on everyone a customer walks up to you with a bow that has a cracked limb. Then what?

See the scenario you presented and the one involving your son are at two different ends of the spectrum. Apples to oranges if you will.

Now if your son had been at one on one marraca lessons then I think the situation would be different.

It certainly was a great effort to try and make a comparison, unfortunately it was way off base.

poorman · 02-06-2009, 01:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jbsoonerfan

So let me put it to you this way....

Let's say you have 25-30 people walking around with bows in their hand. You are the only person there and you a trying your best to watch each and every person. Although you thought you had a good eye on everyone a customer walks up to you with a bow that has a cracked limb. Then what?

See the scenario you presented and the one involving your son are at two different ends of the spectrum. Apples to oranges if you will.

Now if your son had been at one on one marraca lessons then I think the situation would be different.

It certainly was a great effort to try and make a comparison, unfortunately it was way off base.

I dont believe that it is off base. The rule states.... If you break it you buy it!

Lets say that you 25 to 30 kids walking around with instuments of all kinds. You are trying your best to watch all of them to insure that nothing gets broken. But at the end of the music session one of the children brings you a broken instrument. What then??? Same exact scenarion in my opinion.

The difference is your dealing with an adult that will have the ability to argue with you and explain the various reasons as to why it happened.

RxBowhunterKS · 02-06-2009, 02:24 PM

IMO......"You break it, you buy it" only applies if you intentionally or accidently do something that causes the damage. Correctly shooting a bow that has an unknown flaw should be exempt from that policy.

So to answer your question, No way!

jbsoonerfan · 02-06-2009, 02:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by poorman

I dont believe that it is off base. The rule states.... If you break it you buy it!

Lets say that you 25 to 30 kids walking around with instuments of all kinds. You are trying your best to watch all of them to insure that nothing gets broken. But at the end of the music session one of the children brings you a broken instrument. What then??? Same exact scenarion in my opinion.

The difference is your dealing with an adult that will have the ability to argue with you and explain the various reasons as to why it happened.

If you think your scenario with the bow is the same as what happened in the classroom, then there is no sense in reasoning with you.

Send me your Paypal addy and I will send you $10 and this can be swept under the rug. You keep saying that the money isn't the issue, but I sense that maybe it is.

Let me try and explain this again. Your scenario would be more in line if your son had been at one on one marraca lessons and the marraca broke while he was under direct supervision of the teacher. It would also have had to been a defect in the marraca. This is would be more like your bow scenario. And if this was the case. Under these circumstances I beleive that the teacher would not be asking for anything. I hope now you can see the difference in the two.

jbsoonerfan · 02-06-2009, 02:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by poorman

I dont believe that it is off base. The rule states.... If you break it you buy it!

Lets say that you 25 to 30 kids walking around with instuments of all kinds. You are trying your best to watch all of them to insure that nothing gets broken. But at the end of the music session one of the children brings you a broken instrument. What then??? Same exact scenarion in my opinion.

The difference is your dealing with an adult that will have the ability to argue with you and explain the various reasons as to why it happened.

BTW, in this scenario. The student has to pay for it. Just like you did.

So this is more about arguing than following the rules. Kind of like trying to justify speeding, or not wearing a seatbelt. Hey I know. maybe we should have a trial by jury everytime a student breaks a rule. That way we can insure there is justice.

poorman · 02-06-2009, 03:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jbsoonerfan

If you think your scenario with the bow is the same as what happened in the classroom, then there is no sense in reasoning with you.

Send me your Paypal addy and I will send you $10 and this can be swept under the rug. You keep saying that the money isn't the issue, but I sense that maybe it is.

Let me try and explain this again. Your scenario would be more in line if your son had been at one on one marraca lessons and the marraca broke while he was under direct supervision of the teacher. It would also have had to been a defect in the marraca. This is would be more like your bow scenario. And if this was the case. Under these circumstances I beleive that the teacher would not be asking for anything. I hope now you can see the difference in the two.

Well I do believe it is the same. So I guess we will have to agree to disagree.

But you offering to give me the 10.00 to sweep it under the rug is a problem in my opinion and partially the reason I feel the way I do about this, and our society as a whole. Its always easier just to throw money at something and forget it ever happened then to ask questions and determine what is actually wrong or right or the reason behind it. ITS NOT THE MONEY. ITS THE PRINCIPAL.

BUNNYMAN · 02-06-2009, 03:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by poorman

ITS NOT THE MONEY. ITS THE PRINCIPAL.

some people dont have principal's, or ideals.......

what do we expect? JUST THROW MONEY AT THE PROBLEM, it will go away....

jbsoonerfan · 02-06-2009, 03:36 PM

So how did it get broke? Have you not been able to find that out yet? The teacher said she would meet with you if you wanted to. Why have you not scheduled a meeting? Or called? If you were so concerned about it, I would have thought you would have had a meeting by now.

You're right this may be a big understanding. But the point is, you don't know as of right now. Maybe instead of airing you're problems on an internet forum, you should talk about it to the teacher face to face.

poorman · 02-06-2009, 04:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jbsoonerfan

So how did it get broke? Have you not been able to find that out yet? The teacher said she would meet with you if you wanted to. Why have you not scheduled a meeting? Or called? If you were so concerned about it, I would have thought you would have had a meeting by now.

You're right this may be a big understanding. But the point is, you don't know as of right now. Maybe instead of airing you're problems on an internet forum, you should talk about it to the teacher face to face.

I will if I do not get a resonse from her on the "rule" the wasnt followed.

BowhuntnHoosier · 02-06-2009, 05:56 PM

I ain't buyin no Marroca or Bow that breaks during normal use. If I am testing a bow at the shop and I am shooting it under normal circumstances then its the shop owner who will be gettin the bow fixed and then selling it to someone else. If I do something wrong like forget to nock an arrow then ok I would buy it buy if not then. I say NO WAY also. And I think the owner who tried to make me would probably have a little problem on his hands.

the contractor · 02-06-2009, 06:11 PM

break this down for a' real world ' look at this, its my opinion that unless you (YOU) already had a good standing relationship with this teacher, there is a real good chance that as you meet with her and air your feelings about this whole deal, there is gonna be a checkmark next to your boys name in the back of her head for a good while(maraca murderer). i hope not but i think so. unless you act like a sheep and just mail a check in i dont see it going any other way. she'll probably have a huge smile on her face as she makes that mental note. if i found out my kids teacher personally paid for such items then wanted reimbursment when a real accident happens, think i would laugh in her face for even making the purchase let alone asking to be paid back.the lesson of value others things and being accountable will be taught by me with my kids because i dont want these lessons screwed up by an employee acting as steward over my child for a few hours a day.
i wouldnt pay for the bow even if i had to shoot my way out of the shop just to get to my truck.
i work for living, come get my money, i dare you evil shopowner .

That teacher has some stones just to send that letter.

poorman · 02-06-2009, 06:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by the contractor

break this down for a' real world ' look at this, its my opinion that unless you (YOU) already had a good standing relationship with this teacher, there is a real good chance that as you meet with her and air your feelings about this whole deal, there is gonna be a checkmark next to your boys name in the back of her head for a good while(maraca murderer). i hope not but i think so. unless you act like a sheep and just mail a check in i dont see it going any other way. she'll probably have a huge smile on her face as she makes that mental note. if i found out my kids teacher personally paid for such items then wanted reimbursment when a real accident happens, think i would laugh in her face for even making the purchase let alone asking to be paid back.the lesson of value others things and being accountable will be taught by me with my kids because i dont want these lessons screwed up by an employee acting as steward over my child for a few hours a day.
i wouldnt pay for the bow even if i had to shoot my way out of the shop just to get to my truck.
i work for living, come get my money, i dare you evil shopowner .

That teacher has some stones just to send that letter.

Thats what I am thinking. In either scenario. Its a load of crap, and to just pay the bill without questions is just plain dumb!

BowhuntnHoosier · 02-06-2009, 06:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by poorman

Thats what I am thinking. In either scenario. Its a load of crap, and to just pay the bill without questions is just plain dumb!

So you paid it right?????

poorman · 02-06-2009, 06:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BowhuntnHoosier

So you paid it right?????

Not without questions

And I think you just tryes to use my own words against me

BowhuntnHoosier · 02-06-2009, 06:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by poorman

Not without questions

And I think you just tried to use my own words against me

Who me??? I did fix your spelling error since Bunny is not here.

poorman · 02-06-2009, 06:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BowhuntnHoosier

Who me??? I did fix your spelling error since Bunny is not here.

Thanks! I guess I shouldnt have had the 3rd glass of rum and coke

BowhuntnHoosier · 02-06-2009, 06:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by poorman

Thanks! I guess I shouldnt have had the 3rd glass of rum and coke

Rum??????????? What are you a pirate???

poorman · 02-06-2009, 06:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BowhuntnHoosier

Rum??????????? What are you a pirate???

AAAARRRRGGGGG Me mayte. Shiver me timbers and give me my rum!

BowhuntnHoosier · 02-06-2009, 07:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by poorman

AAAARRRRGGGGG Me mayte. Shiver me timbers and give me my rum!

Ok now just put the lid back on the rum and take a little nap.

poorman · 02-06-2009, 07:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BowhuntnHoosier

Ok now just put the lid back on the rum and take a little nap.

No nap needed but that was funny!!!!!

BowhuntnHoosier · 02-06-2009, 07:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by poorman

No nap needed but that was funny!!!!!

We can always use a nap......

the contractor · 02-06-2009, 07:17 PM

you're all right poorman, you got some sense at least . you may pay the ten bucks bucks but you hold dear to the ideals and a level of integrity that no one may take away. thats what matters cause i am sure that is the part of all this that your children will take with them long after' teacher incident 09' has past.

poorman · 02-06-2009, 07:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by the contractor

you're all right poorman, you got some sense at least . you may pay the ten bucks bucks but you hold dear to the ideals and a level of integrity that no one may take away. thats what matters cause i am sure that is the part of all this that your children will take with them long after' teacher incident 09' has past.

Thank You !!!!!!!! That is what I am talking about right there! I have no problem with paying the 10 bucks if it is deserved. But If I tech my kids to do as they are told without question then the only thing I have taght then is to be sheep led to slaughter. I am not a sheep and my kids will not be either. No matter who it PI**ES off.

Finally someone gets it!!!!!!

Where would we be today without questioning authority? Still living in England and bowing to a king! Not me Baby!!!

tmo · 02-06-2009, 07:47 PM

Dang right! It took men with integrity and courage to heave the kings tea into the sea. I'd been with ya on the other side of that barrel shove em off and lmao all the way.

the contractor · 02-06-2009, 08:10 PM

Amen! Viva le revoloution! well , i am a general contractor , and i have 30-50 bosses each year. i have to deal some pretty irrational thought processes sometimes and i pride myself on eatting you now what for the 'greater good'. it is just a part of a grown ups life and it sucks. but-- there is a line. what is the old saying --freedom comes at a price- i say it is always worth paying for. i am also proof that maturity (although delayed abit) has taught me the fine art of choosing your battles wisely

wildfan99 · 02-06-2009, 09:25 PM

Poorman-- Stick to your guns!!

I do feel that most people will take advantage of a situation if they can.

To not question the situation is the same as agreeing w/ it.

wildfan99 · 02-06-2009, 09:27 PM

If all else fails have jbsooner fan pay the bill since he is so willing to disagree w/ you.

BowhuntnHoosier · 02-06-2009, 09:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wildfan99

If all else fails have jbsooner fan pay the bill since he is so willing to disagree w/ you.

Soonerfan?????????? When is he gonna switch to Gatorfan.

jbsoonerfan · 02-06-2009, 10:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wildfan99

If all else fails have jbsooner fan pay the bill since he is so willing to disagree w/ you.

Yes I will send him $10, or he can give me the name of the teacher and the number to the school and I will call and see if she will tell me about the incident. Now since I am not the guardian, chances are she will not. But if I were the parentand I really wanted to know what happened I would have already got in touch with the teacher.

That is my only problem in this scenario. I agree with most of what Poorman says. But he doesn't even know what happened. He hasn't talked to the teacher. She invited him to come by if he had any questions, and I am sure she would take a call, or even answer an e-mail. I think writing a letter back isn't REALLY wanting to know what happened. If Poorman is that concerned he should have already spoke with the teacher to find out the circumstances around the maraca incident.

It's like when someone has a problem with their bow. Instead of calling the company they hurry up and get on the computer and let everyone know about it. Only to come back later and say, "Oh, everything is taken care of. They treated me great." This is basically the same thing. Until he speaks with the teacher and they come to an understanding then we are arguing over something that we don't know everything about. I could actually care less what comes of this. But I think knowing all the facts would clear some things up.

jbsoonerfan · 02-06-2009, 10:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BowhuntnHoosier

Soonerfan?????????? When is he gonna switch to Gatorfan.

When hell freezes over.

They were the better team that night and they deserved to win. You won't hear me say any different.

poorman · 02-06-2009, 10:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jbsoonerfan

Yes I will send him $10, or he can give me the name of the teacher and the number to the school and I will call and see if she will tell me about the incident. Now since I am not the guardian, chances are she will not. But if I were the parentand I really wanted to know what happened I would have already got in touch with the teacher.

That is my only problem in this scenario. I agree with most of what Poorman says. But he doesn't even know what happened. He hasn't talked to the teacher. She invited him to come by if he had any questions, and I am sure she would take a call, or even answer an e-mail. I think writing a letter back isn't REALLY wanting to know what happened. If Poorman is that concerned he should have already spoke with the teacher to find out the circumstances around the maraca incident.

It's like when someone has a problem with their bow. Instead of calling the company they hurry up and get on the computer and let everyone know about it. Only to come back later and say, "Oh, everything is taken care of. They treated me great." This is basically the same thing. Until he speaks with the teacher and they come to an understanding then we are arguing over something that we don't know everything about. I could actually care less what comes of this. But I think knowing all the facts would clear some things up.

Listen..... What you do is your business. Dont ever think you know what or how I will react or think. I am more involved than most and your high and mighty crap is beginning to make me sick. I wouldnt tell you how to contact the teacher in a milliom years. Just like the music teacher you have completly missed the point. I am done trying to convince you that it is not about the money. Someone like you will never understand. Some people will always be sheep and I my friend will not!!!!!

poorman · 02-06-2009, 10:47 PM

[QUOTE=jbsoonerfan;225663]Yes I will send him $10,

You know what you can do with the 10 dollars ?

Go by a pair of cheap A** Maracas and give them to a group of 8 year olds. Then let me know how long they last!

jbsoonerfan · 02-06-2009, 10:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by poorman

Listen..... What you do is your business. Dont ever think you know what or how I will react or think. I am more involved than most and your high and mighty crap is beginning to make me sick. I wouldnt tell you how to contact the teacher in a milliom years. Just like the music teacher you have completly missed the point. I am done trying to convince you that it is not about the money. Someone like you will never understand. Some people will always be sheep and I my friend will not!!!!!

Maybe you should get this tough with the teacher.

I am not taking her side, just stating that you don't have your facts straight. I would think that once you have the facts straight then we can determine if this teacher is in the wrong. Because honestly, there is a chance that indeed she is wrong in this case. The fact is, you don't know for sure. But if you are as involved as you say you are, you would have made it a point to talk with her.

I guess coming on an internet forum and talking smack is much easier than finding out the facts from the teacher. I have known many people who are the same way. Instead of coming to me when they have a problem, they go out and tell everyone else about it. I promise the teacher would have no problem explaining to you what happened.

Make an appointment to talk to her and tell her that you want to know what happened. If you don't like what she has to say, let her know about it. This may be the first step in her re-thinking her "you break it, you buy it" rule. If she is in the wrong she should know about it. If a parent thinks that I have treated their kid wrong, then I dang sure want to know about it, and I am sure this teacher does as well.

Daniel Boone · 02-07-2009, 04:49 AM

He is a teacher and coach and father. He has not missed the point, his point doesnt agree with you and that doesnt agree with you just like the teachers disscission. JBsoonerfan deals with this daily. You should have got the teacher side before bringing it here. We all read the letter. Teacher was as nice as she could be in the letter. Yet you dont understand it or agree obviously. Us that work in the schools see this from parents all the time. So just like in school, go ask the teacher why! This is why I continue to place cameras throughout my district (over 400 right now). Because parents wont believe a teacher over there kids. But like I said I have played the video back many times and the stundent is in the wrong. Now if you believe this music teacher is wrong which obvouisly you do! Go talk to her. Im betting she is a caring teacher that is really good to your son and has good reason for this rule to be in place. Actually go spend a day in her class and often a parent see things different.
DB