Archery Forums 3DShoots.com
Find Archery Shoots near you  |   Advertise on 3DShoots.com

Go Back   Archery Forums 3DShoots.com > Archery Forum > General Archery Forum
 

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 04-09-2010, 09:22 AM   #1
jim p
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 105
jim p is on a distinguished road
Default I am starting a new term "unforgiving arrow"

I have been hearing how the xxx arrows are shooting good out of low poundage bows so I had to get some and try them. After shooting them a little I was all over the place. Couldn't even buy an X. I twisted nocks and tried all the magic tricks that I knew and no love. This morning I go out to shoot and the arrows are good on elevation but are going right. I decided to experiment with my form and bring my draw elbow a little more directly in line with the arrow. Then the x was in trouble. I played around a little more and the arrows seem to be very sensitive to my form. If I am not right on the arrows let me know it.

Other arrows that I have shot did not seem to be as sensitive to my form. Has anyone else noticed this?

It looks like these arrows are going to be a great training tool that will help me perfect my form. It is sad that after shooting for 30 years I still have to work on my form.
jim p is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-09-2010, 09:28 AM   #2
CutTheLoop
Senior Member
 
CutTheLoop's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: The Republic of Texas
Posts: 990
CutTheLoop will become famous soon enoughCutTheLoop will become famous soon enough
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by jim p View Post
I have been hearing how the xxx arrows are shooting good out of low poundage bows so I had to get some and try them. After shooting them a little I was all over the place. Couldn't even buy an X. I twisted nocks and tried all the magic tricks that I knew and no love. This morning I go out to shoot and the arrows are good on elevation but are going right. I decided to experiment with my form and bring my draw elbow a little more directly in line with the arrow. Then the x was in trouble. I played around a little more and the arrows seem to be very sensitive to my form. If I am not right on the arrows let me know it.

Other arrows that I have shot did not seem to be as sensitive to my form. Has anyone else noticed this?

It looks like these arrows are going to be a great training tool that will help me perfect my form. It is sad that after shooting for 30 years I still have to work on my form.

Yep...after the same round of this all last year, compared to the arrow I'm shooting this year.... There's a certain shaft out there I'll never shoot again.
__________________

..............................
CutTheLoop is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-09-2010, 09:38 AM   #3
JAVI
Senior Member
 
JAVI's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Posts: 1,636
JAVI has much to be proud ofJAVI has much to be proud ofJAVI has much to be proud ofJAVI has much to be proud ofJAVI has much to be proud ofJAVI has much to be proud ofJAVI has much to be proud ofJAVI has much to be proud of
Default

Yes, some arrow setups are more forgiving than others, but form and shot process is a never ending work in progress...
__________________
Mike "Javi" Cooper
JAVI is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-09-2010, 10:26 AM   #4
Daniel Boone
Senior Member
 
Daniel Boone's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 6,934
Daniel Boone is on a distinguished road
Default Arrows

Quote:
Originally Posted by jim p View Post
I have been hearing how the xxx arrows are shooting good out of low poundage bows so I had to get some and try them. After shooting them a little I was all over the place. Couldn't even buy an X. I twisted nocks and tried all the magic tricks that I knew and no love. This morning I go out to shoot and the arrows are good on elevation but are going right. I decided to experiment with my form and bring my draw elbow a little more directly in line with the arrow. Then the x was in trouble. I played around a little more and the arrows seem to be very sensitive to my form. If I am not right on the arrows let me know it.

Other arrows that I have shot did not seem to be as sensitive to my form. Has anyone else noticed this?

It looks like these arrows are going to be a great training tool that will help me perfect my form. It is sad that after shooting for 30 years I still have to work on my form.
Often some arrows dont shoot as well out of different bows with certian cams. But you know I have found that if I put those arrows in a Hooter Shooter they hit the same spot ever time. Often how you got the bow tuned makes alot of difference when choosing the right arrow. Its often a trail and error for myself.
DB
__________________
Elite bows, Vortex Binos, Trophy Taker sights, Carter releases, Goldtip Arrows. CBE sights, Vapor Trail Strings, B Stinger stabilizers
Daniel Boone is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-09-2010, 11:08 AM   #5
Supermag
Senior Member
 
Supermag's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: NE
Posts: 366
Supermag is on a distinguished road
Default

There are multiple reasons that I'm a firm believer in matching an arrows spine to a setup, and this is one of them.
Supermag is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-09-2010, 11:44 AM   #6
upnorth
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: springstead wi
Posts: 412
upnorth is on a distinguished road
Default

iv shot a bunch through the hooter shooter also . going to probably get beat up saying this . but in a lot of case id have to say spine has more to do with the shooters style than it does with the bow if the bows set correctly .me personally have shot arrows that people and charts say are under spined for years .
upnorth is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-09-2010, 01:02 PM   #7
Huntelk
Senior Member
 
Huntelk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Kansas
Posts: 392
Huntelk is on a distinguished road
Default

For several years I shot CXL 250's with great results. They shot like darts out of my Merlins, conquest 3, Apex, Ultra tec, Pro elite and Ultra elite.

Then I went to a handheld release and lengthened my dl out almost an inch and the 250's wouldn't shoot for crap.

I have shot the triple x's for about 5 months now but just can't get them to fly up to my expectations. I have gone to a CX 3-d select. They seem to fly much better than the XXX's with my setup.

That and I can use them for both field and 3-d. I have just never shot any all-carbon arrows that were as consistent as the Carbon Express lines.

The XXX's are now joining the fatboys, 30X pros, Beemans, Victory and the other 200+ arrows in a 5-gallon bucket in the closet.

Maybe I'll try them again later out of a different bow. I had to shoot my VE at 64 lbs to get the XXX's to 280, I sure am liking shooting 55 lbs and getting 285 fps now!

If anyone is curious I was getting 308 fps out of the VE at 64 lbs with the 345 grain 3-d select.
Huntelk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-09-2010, 02:43 PM   #8
Allen
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Maryland
Posts: 532
Allen is on a distinguished road
Default

It seems like this is coming back to the question JAVI asked a while back:


http://www.3dshoots.com/forums/showthread.php?t=29530

Do you fit the equipment to the shooter or visa versa.
Allen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-09-2010, 07:39 PM   #9
jim p
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 105
jim p is on a distinguished road
Default

I have been shooting and adjusting almost all day. I am just not feeling right about how things are going and how the set up feels. I think it is time to back away from this and just think about what is going on for a while.

It is good to know that I am not the only one that has run into this situation.

Thanks for the input.
jim p is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-11-2010, 08:45 PM   #10
JDX--
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Wisconsin, USA
Posts: 870
JDX-- will become famous soon enough
Default

Could you mention what your
Poundage is
The amount of overhang your arrow has on the rest at full draw
Arrow length
Point weight


Thanks
__________________
The only one that is your competitor is the air between your ears!


JDX-- is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-11-2010, 09:38 PM   #11
jim p
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 105
jim p is on a distinguished road
Default

55 pounds, 29" draw

1" overhang

Carbon shaft 27 1/2"

150 gr tip
jim p is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-12-2010, 06:57 AM   #12
JDX--
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Wisconsin, USA
Posts: 870
JDX-- will become famous soon enough
Default

Consistency and form may have some effect on ones results agreed but the Triple Xs are great shafts. If youíre using these for outdoor 3D I would drop your point weight down some, try a 100 grain point you can always add 10 and see if your pattern changes any.

Then focus on clean shots that break well and donít pick your steps apart mind checking all your moves this will tend to break down your shot versus focusing on a great shot and just letting it happen.
__________________
The only one that is your competitor is the air between your ears!


JDX-- is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-12-2010, 02:06 PM   #13
jim p
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 105
jim p is on a distinguished road
Default

I did some more experimenting today. Instead of using the hybrid cam bow I took my single cam bow with a 32"ata 55 lb 29" draw and without adjusting or tuning the bow for the xxx I shot for the x. The arrow hit at 12 oclock in the 6 ring. So I aimed at 6 oclock in the blue ring and hit the 10. I shot several arrows this way and was getting very consistent results.

So now I am thinking that me and the hybrid cam bow are not getting along.

I don't want to sight my bow in for the xxx because I think the speed is slow and I would probably loose 3d points due to missing yardage estimates than I would gain by having a large shaft arrow. I am going to see if I can stick a top pin in for Dots though.
jim p is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-12-2010, 03:10 PM   #14
jim p
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 105
jim p is on a distinguished road
Default

I just got back in from shooting a few more arrows and I am pretty solidly getting 29 of the 30 points on the vegas 3 spot now. So my results with the arrows is now acceptable. I will get that other point if I can just not float off the dot before the release fires.
jim p is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-12-2010, 03:25 PM   #15
JAVI
Senior Member
 
JAVI's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Posts: 1,636
JAVI has much to be proud ofJAVI has much to be proud ofJAVI has much to be proud ofJAVI has much to be proud ofJAVI has much to be proud ofJAVI has much to be proud ofJAVI has much to be proud ofJAVI has much to be proud of
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by jim p View Post
I just got back in from shooting a few more arrows and I am pretty solidly getting 29 of the 30 points on the vegas 3 spot now. So my results with the arrows is now acceptable. I will get that other point if I can just not float off the dot before the release fires.
There are ways to fix that...
__________________
Mike "Javi" Cooper
JAVI is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-12-2010, 05:26 PM   #16
Hoyt1945
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 183
Hoyt1945 is on a distinguished road
Default

The xxx are pretty stiff shafts; the spine is 150. I think to get them to shoot out of your bow, they need to be cut longer and more weight on the tip. The carbon express x jammer 27 are a softer spine 295. I think they would be easier to shoot out of your 55 pound bow. I no expert that is just my opinion.
__________________
Hoyt Bows, Shrewd sights, Carter index, Tru Ball hinge, Trophy Taker Rest, Doinker Stabilizers, Carbon Express XJ 27's, Vapor Trail Strings, Nikon Binos.
Hoyt1945 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-12-2010, 05:58 PM   #17
Allen
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Maryland
Posts: 532
Allen is on a distinguished road
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by JAVI View Post
There are ways to fix that...
Tell us more - PLEASE
Allen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-12-2010, 08:34 PM   #18
RageBlood
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Posts: 71
RageBlood is on a distinguished road
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by JAVI View Post
There are ways to fix that...
Don't wait - be more active on the shot right?!, I'm trying out your methods!
__________________
Elite GT500
Elite Judge
Elite XLR
Mathews Apex & Apex 7
RageBlood is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-12-2010, 09:34 PM   #19
jim p
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 105
jim p is on a distinguished road
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by JAVI View Post
There are ways to fix that...
Probably so but could I afford it.

I have to take my blessing where I can find them. For now just knowing that the arrows will work is a step in the right direction.
jim p is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-16-2010, 04:22 AM   #20
jim p
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 105
jim p is on a distinguished road
Default

Since you guys have been helping me out, I need to give you an update on how things are progressing. Last night was our dot shoot night. I dropped 5 points and didn't win the first shoot but the next shoot I only dropped 3 points and with 9x I was the winner. We only shoot 15 arrows per shoot and use the Vegas 3 spot targets so this is not any history making score but it is the best that I have done in a while.

I tried to bare shaft tune the bow. I have been able to get the vertical tune good but the horizontal tune is not working. I am right handed and the bare shaft is hitting about 6" left of the fletched arrow at 20 yards. Moving the rest in and out only moves the impact of both arrows and the distance between the shafts does not decrease. This is probably due to the very stiff spine of the arrows.

So what is my next step to good tuning? I am thinking that it is now time to walk back tune, then to group tune, then to set my 2nd axis and 3rd axis, and then to just concentrate on shooting. Any and all suggestions are welcomed.

Thanks for the help.
jim p is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-16-2010, 05:31 AM   #21
JAVI
Senior Member
 
JAVI's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Posts: 1,636
JAVI has much to be proud ofJAVI has much to be proud ofJAVI has much to be proud ofJAVI has much to be proud ofJAVI has much to be proud ofJAVI has much to be proud ofJAVI has much to be proud ofJAVI has much to be proud of
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by jim p View Post
Since you guys have been helping me out, I need to give you an update on how things are progressing. Last night was our dot shoot night. I dropped 5 points and didn't win the first shoot but the next shoot I only dropped 3 points and with 9x I was the winner. We only shoot 15 arrows per shoot and use the Vegas 3 spot targets so this is not any history making score but it is the best that I have done in a while.

I tried to bare shaft tune the bow. I have been able to get the vertical tune good but the horizontal tune is not working. I am right handed and the bare shaft is hitting about 6" left of the fletched arrow at 20 yards. Moving the rest in and out only moves the impact of both arrows and the distance between the shafts does not decrease. This is probably due to the very stiff spine of the arrows.

So what is my next step to good tuning? I am thinking that it is now time to walk back tune, then to group tune, then to set my 2nd axis and 3rd axis, and then to just concentrate on shooting. Any and all suggestions are welcomed.

Thanks for the help.
Sight axis must be set before tuning..
__________________
Mike "Javi" Cooper
JAVI is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-16-2010, 06:24 AM   #22
Allen
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Maryland
Posts: 532
Allen is on a distinguished road
Default

Jim,

I had the same problem with the 27's and finally realized that my top cam was leaning pretty bad. A little twisting up of one leg of the buss cable and the bare shaft immediately started grouping with the fletched.

Obviously, your problem may be something else, but it's one thing to check.

Allen
Allen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-16-2010, 06:47 AM   #23
jim p
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 105
jim p is on a distinguished road
Default

Thanks for the idea about cam lean. The cam is straight at brace but I have not checked it at full draw. Which side would I need to twist to help correct the horizontal tune?

I was hoping that I could set the sight axis last. Since I don't have any sight set up tools I have to shoot the bow to set the sight axis. So this is going to take some back and forth tuning to get things exactly right. Oh well I like to shoot anyway.
jim p is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-16-2010, 08:41 AM   #24
Allen
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Maryland
Posts: 532
Allen is on a distinguished road
Default

Here is a link to the Spot Hogg newsletter that discusses cam lean:

http://www.spot-hogg.com/newsletters...wsletter_5.php

It will tell you more than I can.

Allen
Allen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-17-2010, 04:23 PM   #25
jim p
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 105
jim p is on a distinguished road
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Allen View Post
Jim,

I had the same problem with the 27's and finally realized that my top cam was leaning pretty bad. A little twisting up of one leg of the buss cable and the bare shaft immediately started grouping with the fletched.

Obviously, your problem may be something else, but it's one thing to check.

Allen

Consider this your neck hug of the day. I looked at the top cam and it was lined up great with the string. I had read that if the top cam was leaned so that an arrow placed on the sight side of the bow would point toward the nock a little that it would improve nock travel. Well I put one twist in the right side of the split yoke and the distance between the bare shaft and fletched arrow decreased from 6" to 2". I then checked the center shot of the bow and the rest was at 13/16" from the riser which is pretty close to where it should be. I came back in the house and put another 1/2 twist in the right side of the yoke and then the bare shaft and fletched arrow were hitting together.

It has taken a while to get thing right but now I can shoot and know that if a shot goes wrong it is my fault and not the tuning of the bow.

Thanks everyone.
jim p is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-18-2010, 01:29 PM   #26
Allen
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Maryland
Posts: 532
Allen is on a distinguished road
Default

Jim, I'm glad it worked out for you. I know the feeling when you finally get something right after it's been a puzzle.

Don't anybody think that I'm a tuning guru. I'm not. Just one thing that worked for me and fortunately, worked for Jim. When it comes to tuning, I get by, but I'm not fit to carry JAVI's allen wrench.
Allen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-19-2010, 04:45 AM   #27
jim p
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 105
jim p is on a distinguished road
Default

Allen, That tuning tip sure worked great for me. I think that it will be part of my tuning from now own. I will probably be putting the rest at the recommended center shot and then using the yoke to adjust the horizontal impact.

I have already passed this tip along and will continue to pass it along. Some will benefit from it and some wont but that is the way life is.

Thanks again and have a great day.
jim p is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 04:21 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Copyright 2004 3DShoots.com