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Old 04-12-2010, 08:30 PM   #1
TMax27
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Default Up Down Misses

What is the primary cause of up down misses? Shooting a 42 yards (I know, totally random distance) I am can stack 2 arrows together, then the next two will be 4" higher, then the next two will be 4" lower

Everything is tight on the bow, well tuned, etc.; I feel like I am make good crisp shots...

Any suggestions or reasons for the up down misses?
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Old 04-12-2010, 08:33 PM   #2
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Default Falling out of your peep

Not staying with your eye in your peep right all all the time.

Other words keeping your scope centered perfect.

Many of us fight it often and know exactly what we did when we did it.

I feel 80% of my up and down shots were not staying in my peep correctly.

Having that peep perfect is crucial.
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Old 04-12-2010, 08:42 PM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Daniel Boone View Post
Not staying with your eye in your peep right all all the time.

Other words keeping your scope centered perfect.

Many of us fight it often and know exactly what we did when we did it.

I feel 80% of my up and down shots were not staying in my peep correctly.

Having that peep perfect is crucial.
Any tricks or tips to stay in the peep? I can see all the way around the ring, what else do I need to check?
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Old 04-12-2010, 08:53 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TMax27 View Post
Any tricks or tips to stay in the peep? I can see all the way around the ring, what else do I need to check?

I'm a newbie, but I found that when I really, really focused on the target sometimes my peep strayed a little down on the scope if I was not taking notice of the peep/sight alignment, then I'd shoot a low arrow and know what happened immediately - just as DB stated, I found that getting a peep that exactly fits my scope ring helped a lot, any misalignment now looks completely wrong! if I can't realign and steady then I let down, but.....I'm still a newbie.
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Old 04-12-2010, 09:03 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RageBlood View Post
I'm a newbie, but I found that when I really, really focused on the target sometimes my peep strayed a little down on the scope if I was not taking notice of the peep/sight alignment, then I'd shoot a low arrow and know what happened immediately - just as DB stated, I found that getting a peep that exactly fits my scope ring helped a lot, any misalignment now looks completely wrong! if I can't realign and steady then I let down, but.....I'm still a newbie.

Makes sense to me
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Old 04-12-2010, 09:24 PM   #6
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I don't like a kisser button. But this is a case where something which comes in contact with the face around the nose could be very helpful. If the head tilts the contact with the face would change and corrections could be made.
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Old 04-12-2010, 09:28 PM   #7
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For me i find using the smallest peep i can helps alot. Larger peep leaves more room for error.
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Old 04-12-2010, 09:55 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hutchies View Post
For me i find using the smallest peep i can helps alot. Larger peep leaves more room for error.
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Old 04-12-2010, 10:11 PM   #9
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Default Suggestions

Quote:
Originally Posted by TMax27 View Post
Any tricks or tips to stay in the peep? I can see all the way around the ring, what else do I need to check?
Make your peep fit the housing perfect. I feel the orange mask help me alot around the husing. Make sure your head and anchor points stay right intack untell you make the shot and follow through. Practice alot because its something even the best deal with from time to time.
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Old 04-12-2010, 10:18 PM   #10
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Things to look for...

Peep height... is it correct so that your eye falls to the center without searching

Anchor/bow shoulder.. if you occasionally let the bow shoulder come up it will make your shot high..

dropping/raising arm to get on target instead of bending at the waist.

weak shot... coming off the wall... high shot
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Old 04-13-2010, 07:10 AM   #11
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For me the up / down misses come from a failure to maintain focus entirely on the target. If my focus flickers from the front end of the shot to the back end, I always get a bad shot, usually high left or low right.

Another cause of bad shots that took me a while to overcome is failure to follow through after the release. This led to anticipation and quitting a little too quick on the shot. For me these were usually lefts & rights, but it could be different for you.
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Old 04-13-2010, 08:06 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jim p View Post
I don't like a kisser button. But this is a case where something which comes in contact with the face around the nose could be very helpful. If the head tilts the contact with the face would change and corrections could be made.
This is something I am gonna try: either a tied nockset for my nose, or as a kisser.
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Old 04-13-2010, 08:10 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hutchies View Post
For me i find using the smallest peep i can helps alot. Larger peep leaves more room for error.
Brian, OKOutlaw and DB, I think I am using the smallest peep that my sight will allow and still see all of the orange ringe. There is maybe a 1/16" ring around the ring.

I am using a 3/16" peep, think maybe a 5/32" would work better?
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Old 04-13-2010, 08:14 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JAVI View Post
Things to look for...

Peep height... is it correct so that your eye falls to the center without searching

I think my peep height is good. I will have Randy D or DTJAR check it out this weekend

Anchor/bow shoulder.. if you occasionally let the bow shoulder come up it will make your shot high..

Is there a way to tell when you're shoulder is coming w/o someone watching? How does it feel?

dropping/raising arm to get on target instead of bending at the waist.

I do the "arm raise" thing. Somewhat of a holdover from target panic days. I need to bend into the target.

weak shot... coming off the wall... high shot

I'm not counting the weak shots, I usually know when its a weak one
see my replys in red
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Old 04-13-2010, 08:16 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Allen View Post
For me the up / down misses come from a failure to maintain focus entirely on the target. If my focus flickers from the front end of the shot to the back end, I always get a bad shot, usually high left or low right.

Another cause of bad shots that took me a while to overcome is failure to follow through after the release. This led to anticipation and quitting a little too quick on the shot. For me these were usually lefts & rights, but it could be different for you.
Good points. If I don't have good follow through, the shot goes arry. At the longer distances I am trying to see where it hits before the arrow gets there.
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Old 04-13-2010, 08:18 AM   #16
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THANKS for all the suggestions!!! Tonight I will try to apply them all and see what happens.

One thing I did notice last night was I need to stop while I am still making solid clean shots. If I go until I am tired, it seems the practice session is counter productive.

Also, I am gonna try to get a video of me shooting, so ya'll can pick me apart
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Old 04-13-2010, 12:05 PM   #17
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I'm using a 1/32 peep with a 2 inch hogg it. Works great for me. 3/16 is still rather large
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Old 04-13-2010, 12:45 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TMax27 View Post
This is something I am gonna try: either a tied nockset for my nose, or as a kisser.
I find that instead of a kisser, just serve a large "knot" tightly to the string. It's easier to move than a kisser, and you'll feel it just as well.
When I shoot low, I find that I'm creeping on the string and not keeping my head upright.
Just my $.02 worth...
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Old 04-13-2010, 12:52 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hutchies View Post
I'm using a 1/32 peep with a 2 inch hogg it. Works great for me. 3/16 is still rather large
Seriously??? I am shooting a Copper John Tourney Master, I think the inside of the guard is 2 1/4" Is the Hogg It 2" to the outside of the guard. I was using a 1/8", but just couldn't see the whole alignment ring.
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Old 04-13-2010, 01:11 PM   #20
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It all depends on how far from your eye the peep is... the closer the peep the smaller the hole you can see through..
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Old 04-13-2010, 02:19 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JAVI View Post
It all depends on how far from your eye the peep is... the closer the peep the smaller the hole you can see through..
Noted. The bow I am shooting is ~38" overall, so the string angle is still sharp, enough so that my peep is probably 3" from my eye.
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Old 04-13-2010, 07:27 PM   #22
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May try a superball peep? Many sizes to choose from to get the one that fits.
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Old 04-13-2010, 08:17 PM   #23
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Good news::: I tied a nockset at my nose to have another reference point, focus intently on centering the peep, bending at the waist, and making strongs shots... RESULT= Cut my 42 yard groups in half. My up down was 2 1/2" over a 6 shot group, left right is about 3". I was focusing more on the up down tonight, so I know I let the bubble wonder a little. Just have to get the two going together and should be able to tighten my 42 yard groups a bit more

(42 yards is the farthest I have available to shoot where I live)

THANKS for ALL the help
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Old 04-13-2010, 10:47 PM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TMax27 View Post
Noted. The bow I am shooting is ~38" overall, so the string angle is still sharp, enough so that my peep is probably 3" from my eye.


I'm shooting a 41 ATA bow. Anchor point has alot to do with it too. If you shoot a long release your draw will be shorter and string further away from your eye. I'm shooting a ST360 and Truball BT gold ultra 3 so. I still feel like my draw is a hair short. Haven't had time to play with it yet.
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Old 04-14-2010, 07:19 AM   #25
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Another thing that "may" help is to get your anchor up as tight as possible for your shortest yardage. This should keep your anchor plenty snug for that 42 yarder and help close your vertical groups.
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Old 04-14-2010, 08:57 AM   #26
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Another thing that "may" help is to get your anchor up as tight as possible for your shortest yardage. This should keep your anchor plenty snug for that 42 yarder and help close your vertical groups.
Mickey, could you explain further, my mind is just not wrapping around this concept?
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Old 04-14-2010, 09:05 AM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hutchies View Post
I'm shooting a 41 ATA bow. Anchor point has alot to do with it too. If you shoot a long release your draw will be shorter and string further away from your eye. I'm shooting a ST360 and Truball BT gold ultra 3 so. I still feel like my draw is a hair short. Haven't had time to play with it yet.
I had my wife take some pics of my anchor last night, anchorlooks higher than what most folks are using. I also am using the TruBall BT Gold Ultra 3.
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Old 04-14-2010, 11:24 AM   #28
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Quote:
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Mickey, could you explain further, my mind is just not wrapping around this concept?
Your peep is in essence the fulcrum for your line of sight. As you adjust your scope for longer distances, your anchor will drop some. If you have an anchor that has a verticle limit, such as the bottom of your ear, you can make that upper limit up very tight for your shortest yardage setting. This will keep your anchor somewhat snug for longer distances and "may" help shrink your verticle group size.
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Old 04-14-2010, 12:17 PM   #29
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Actually it is true that on uphill and downhill shots as well as long and shorter shot your anchor will migrate a bit. But it is also true that your anchor isn't a random point of convenience picked because you knuckle feels good there.. it is rather a product of your body's skeletal design... a point predetermined by the position of your scapula and the length of your arm from the shoulder to the elbow and the elbow to the fingers.


Just as the bows draw length has little to nothing to do with your loop or your drawing arm.. it is the fit of the bow from the palm of your bow hand to the reference points you choose on the face like your nose and/or the corner of your mouth and the string angle plays an important part.
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Old 04-14-2010, 12:36 PM   #30
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Mickey and Javi- Should I set my peep at a longer distance, say 30 yards??? Holding with the arrow level, my anchor is pretty high.

The 3d class I shoot in has a max distance of 40 yards, however most shots are in the 25 -35 yard range.
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Old 04-14-2010, 12:57 PM   #31
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Mickey and Javi- Should I set my peep at a longer distance, say 30 yards??? Holding with the arrow level, my anchor is pretty high.

The 3d class I shoot in has a max distance of 40 yards, however most shots are in the 25 -35 yard range.
I generally set my peep at the average distance I will be shooting with the bow..
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Old 04-14-2010, 01:15 PM   #32
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I generally set my peep at the average distance I will be shooting with the bow..
Gotcha
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