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Old 09-30-2010, 12:47 PM   #1
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Default Southern National Archery shooters ATTN : NEW INFO the entire event was a SCAM

Some very important information came to light today about the Southern National Archery festival …That was held over the weekend of Sept. 2.3.4.5 2010 in Austin TX….

If you were a shooter and are owed money please PM me so we can get the ball rolling on this SCAM that was perpetrated on us.
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Old 09-30-2010, 02:07 PM   #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bout View Post
Some very important information came to light today about the Southern National Archery festival …That was held over the weekend of Sept. 2.3.4.5 2010 in Austin TX….

If you were a shooter and are owed money please PM me so we can get the ball rolling on this SCAM that was perpetrated on us.
Shot you a PM.
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Old 09-30-2010, 02:16 PM   #3
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I think you fellows are about to throw good money after bad...
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Old 09-30-2010, 02:42 PM   #4
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pm sent to ya Chris
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Old 09-30-2010, 03:21 PM   #5
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Thinking I'm glad I didn't make this one......
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Old 09-30-2010, 03:47 PM   #6
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pm sent to you
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Old 09-30-2010, 04:06 PM   #7
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Originally Posted by ba3darcher View Post
Thinking I'm glad I didn't make this one......
me too
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Old 09-30-2010, 04:20 PM   #8
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Man I hate to hear this Guys.......


Hope you can somehow get your money.
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Old 09-30-2010, 04:34 PM   #9
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"entire event was a scam"

...tell us more Chris.
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Old 09-30-2010, 04:50 PM   #10
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Hey Chris,

I was told by one of the locals there who was also shooting that the guy who was "putting up the money" had screwed a couple other organizations out of a bunch of money on similar deals too. He said from day 1 of the shoot that we wouldn't get paid. I was like "well why did you pay 300 bucks too shoot", he said he hoped the guy would come through this time. That dog ain't gonna bite me but one time. lol. I don't feel so bad about getting knocked out early now. I feel for the guys who placed well and got a, well, should have got a big check. I figured this was gonna happen after no one showed up to shoot and they shut the thing down and said they weren't gonna pay us. They just let us finish so they could screw us from a distance. Nothing like having a bunch of armed people mad as hell at you within shooting distance. You got my email so let me know what you want to do. Ill inform everyone in my phone and email list to get with you.

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Old 10-03-2010, 01:03 PM   #11
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World Series of Archery

Press Release regarding Southern National Archery Festival

The World Series of Archery is a limited liability company that is not affiliated or partnered with the Southern National Archery Festival (“SNAF”) or any of its directors or financiers. The World Series of Archery was contacted by Dennis Sissel and Mark Post of SNAF, because SNAF wanted to purchase targets to use during indoor archery events. The World Series of Archery sold targets to SNAF and these targets were used for two indoor events as well as an outdoor novelty event. SNAF hired individuals associated with The World Series of Archery as independent contractors to run the two indoor events.

The World Series of Archery knows many people have been severely damaged by SNAF, its directors, and financiers, and understands individuals may seek redress of these damages in court. In fact, The World Series of Archery has claims for monetary damages and injunctive relief against SNAF, its directors, and financiers. The World Series of Archery and individuals associated with The World Series of Archery are still considering the best remedies for their damages.

The World Series of Archery is not responsible for the debts and liabilities incurred by SNAF or anyone affiliated with SNAF. We would expect anyone pressing a claim against SNAF to fulfill their obligations for a pre-suit investigation and not to name World Series of Archery as a defendant. Should The World Series of Archery be named as anything other than a plaintiff in a suit, it will vigorously defend itself and seek attorneys’ fees.

We sincerely hope individuals associated with SNAF follow through on their promises to pay the archers that won events and the vendors that lost money on SNAF.

Michael Braden
World Series of Archery
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Old 10-04-2010, 08:23 AM   #12
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What a crock!

Not really a good way to kick off a new game.
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Old 10-04-2010, 09:22 AM   #13
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What a crock!

Not really a good way to kick off a new game.
Or encourage the next one... even if it is legit.
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Old 10-04-2010, 09:22 AM   #14
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Default Back From A Weelkend Of Teaching

And what fun I got to teach trapping all weekend and now back to this mess...
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Old 10-04-2010, 11:53 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JAVI View Post
I think you fellows are about to throw good money after bad...
This is a criminal offense. Folks need to atleast address this as a scam. Surely Texas doesnt allow this to happen. Local DA needs to file charges.

Black eye for Texas archery and archery in general.
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Many archers spent alot of money at this event and came along ways.
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Old 10-04-2010, 12:25 PM   #16
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This is a criminal offense. Folks need to atleast address this as a scam. Surely Texas doesnt allow this to happen. Local DA needs to file charges.

Black eye for Texas archery and archery in general.
DB

Many archers spent alot of money at this event and came along ways.
Texas archery didn't put this thing on.. folks who are not archers put this on...

I agree with filing charges Dan, but filing lawsuits against an LLC is a waste of money.. throwing good money after bad...

The problem is finding cause to file charges and against whom... This isn't the first time this has happened in the archery community...
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Old 10-04-2010, 03:05 PM   #17
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Originally Posted by JAVI View Post
Texas archery didn't put this thing on.. folks who are not archers put this on...

I agree with filing charges Dan, but filing lawsuits against an LLC is a waste of money.. throwing good money after bad...

The problem is finding cause to file charges and against whom... This isn't the first time this has happened in the archery community...
Its a crime. Something needs to be done and done from folks in Texas. I dont care if happened before they need to be taken to court. They took folks money and that a crime. Had Texas DA done something the first time these guys ripped folks off we might not be here. Why if everyone knew this guy was a crook didnt someone say something? If this was Oklahoma I would contact the state attorney and inform them about this scam. Lets hope something gets done.
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Old 10-04-2010, 03:31 PM   #18
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Daniel

Simply put, one would have to prove intent to defraud.


Still waiting to hear the reasons why this was a "Scam" from the get-go.

But, in reality, I think it's a simple case of pinheads letting their mouth write checks, their ass couldn't cash.


Sadly, stupidity is not against the law.
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Old 10-04-2010, 03:54 PM   #19
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Originally Posted by CutTheLoop View Post
Daniel

Simply put, one would have to prove intent to defraud.


Still waiting to hear the reasons why this was a "Scam" from the get-go.

But, in reality, I think it's a simple case of pinheads letting their mouth write checks, their ass couldn't cash.


Sadly, stupidity is not against the law.

well said.
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Old 10-04-2010, 04:30 PM   #20
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How is it not a crime.
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Old 10-04-2010, 06:51 PM   #21
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Default Fraud

Quote:
Originally Posted by CutTheLoop View Post
Daniel

Simply put, one would have to prove intent to defraud.


Still waiting to hear the reasons why this was a "Scam" from the get-go.

But, in reality, I think it's a simple case of pinheads letting their mouth write checks, their ass couldn't cash.


Sadly, stupidity is not against the law.
FRAUD, they garanteed a purse. So you feel what they did should be allowed and no one should be held accountable. Yes it is a crime. You accepted money with no pay backs. Entry fees and traveling were not cheap. Im surprised that anyone can even debate it not a crime.
Bottom line its theft because you stole entry fees.
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Old 10-04-2010, 08:37 PM   #22
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There is not a single person here that is saying its not a crime....reading comprehension isn't one of your strong points is it?


Are you willing to put up your money to prosecute?
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Old 10-04-2010, 09:04 PM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Daniel Boone View Post
FRAUD, they garanteed a purse. So you feel what they did should be allowed and no one should be held accountable. Yes it is a crime. You accepted money with no pay backs. Entry fees and traveling were not cheap. Im surprised that anyone can even debate it not a crime.
Bottom line its theft because you stole entry fees.
DB
First off, I'd appreciate if YOU clarify that by using the term "you" after quoting me, you aren't insinuating that "I" accepted money, or "I" stole anything.

I realize..or at least hope you are interjecting "you" in a general sense.

For the record, I am in no way, nor have I ever been associated with this event or it's organizers, except to work a couple rounds of 3D shooting.

With all due respect...you should learn to choose your words more carefully... rumors, speculation and things taken out of context, can spread like wildfire.

And, I am in now way defending their actions... if you read my post you will see, I plainly stated having to prove their "Intent"(which would be a crime with forethought) stepping on ones @#!^ is stupid yes, but hard to prove as criminal.
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Old 10-04-2010, 10:23 PM   #24
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How is it not a crime.
It is a crime for sure and there will be action taken. There is a such law proving this is a crime. You can not advertise a competition of any kind that is supposed to pay money and then not pay it. Also there are lawyers that will take cases and not charge you a dime untill you have been paid as long as they know you have a legit case. Trust me. Bout is taking care of alot of it with. He has done a bunch of research and has attorny's involved. Any of the contestants need to get ahold of Bout aka Chris Berry and he will fill you in on the details. All of US contestants owes Bout a big thank you for all he is doing to help out in this case. Thanks again.

Cuttheloop DB is not trying to step on you toes. I promise you. Hes just takes heart into things like this.
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Old 10-05-2010, 06:21 AM   #25
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Originally Posted by CutTheLoop View Post
First off, I'd appreciate if YOU clarify that by using the term "you" after quoting me, you aren't insinuating that "I" accepted money, or "I" stole anything.

I realize..or at least hope you are interjecting "you" in a general sense.

For the record, I am in no way, nor have I ever been associated with this event or it's organizers, except to work a couple rounds of 3D shooting.

With all due respect...you should learn to choose your words more carefully... rumors, speculation and things taken out of context, can spread like wildfire.

And, I am in now way defending their actions... if you read my post you will see, I plainly stated having to prove their "Intent"(which would be a crime with forethought) stepping on ones @#!^ is stupid yes, but hard to prove as criminal.

I ask a question when I said you! No where in my post did I mention you envolved. Your post made it sound like you feel they did not try to defraud or ripp anyone off. Im sure your talking about loophole in the law that protect them but for myself its still fraud. Before everyone envolved in the event left that day they knew they had no intent of paying anyone. Thats fraud when you say we will mail you the check. My words are plain and clear. These guys are crooks that lied to the archers before they left that day.
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Old 10-05-2010, 07:09 AM   #26
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I think this will be the death blow for wsoa. It was a bad format to begin with, but when wsoa hitched their wagon to the wrong horse(snaf), that may have been a fatal mistake.
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Old 10-05-2010, 08:35 AM   #27
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I think this will be the death blow for wsoa. It was a bad format to begin with, but when wsoa hitched their wagon to the wrong horse(snaf), that may have been a fatal mistake.
Read Micheal B's response to this thread... That's straight from the "horses" mouth.
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Old 10-05-2010, 08:40 AM   #28
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Read Micheal B's response to this thread... That's straight from the "horses" mouth.
Thats kinda what I was thinking.

So if there is a problem with your local 3D tournament, Mckenzie and Rinehart would be responsible?
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Old 10-05-2010, 08:43 AM   #29
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Default My thoughts

WSOA just got sucked in to this scam as well they were sucked into just like the rest of us.


They put on a good shoot and I had fun and did good shooting the target.

I am just sorry this was there first big venture out and than this .......
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Old 10-05-2010, 09:51 AM   #30
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WSOA just got sucked in to this scam as well they were sucked into just like the rest of us.


They put on a good shoot and I had fun and did good shooting the target.

I am just sorry this was there first big venture out and than this .......
Sad fact Chris its going to sure hurt future events like this. Archers will start investigated the promotors of the event. Because folks are not going to travel and take a gamble with no garantees in the future.
Maybe some already realized the scam from the start of this event and thats why the turnout was low. Texas alone you should have drawn 500 archers. When doing an event like this you should advertise payouts are based on shooter turnout or not advertise at all. Law should protect the general public from being scammed. Your only as good as your word and apparently these guys word isnt crap. If these guys didnt have enough money to cover the event and payouts in my opionion that fraud. Now if they advertised payouts were based on shooter turnout then they would be covered. When archers paid there money they entered into a contract.
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Old 10-05-2010, 02:24 PM   #31
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playing devils advocate here, but did the shoot advertise guaranteed purse amounts, if not good luck on collecting anything close to what was advertised. wording is the key to any type of promotional event.
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Old 10-05-2010, 02:40 PM   #32
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ba, just looked at the flier, no guaranteed money
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Old 10-05-2010, 02:59 PM   #33
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The web page says $250,000 in prize money

If that is not a garantee.......I don't know what is? Does a shooter need to take out an insurance policy before registration? If we were in court right now, I do not think the judge or jury would say,......"but they did not use the word GARANTEE in their advertisements"

Shooters attended and paid registration believing if they placed thery would win cash.

http://www.southernnationalarcheryfestival.com/
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Old 10-05-2010, 03:08 PM   #34
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ba, just looked at the flier, no guaranteed money
This is right from the flyer. I see garantee on this several times.

DB



Anyone Can Win the $32,000 Grand Prize!
Regardless of any Score on any Range, many people will make the Semifinals by sheer LUCK. Numerous lucky shots at the Balloon Pop, Draw Poker, and the Genesis Bow Shoots will qualify contestants to the Semifinals. Lucky shots at the Semifinal's Flu-Flu Shoot will guarantee a position(s) in the $128,000, 64-Bracket Final.
Making it to the Finals, guarantees you a minimum of $500.00.
The person having the most fun at the Red-Neck Parade, (I know how to have fun!!!) And one persons' name drawn from the hat..., are guaranteed to the $128,000, 64-Bracket Final. More about LUCKY SHOT to Semifinals...
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Old 10-05-2010, 03:09 PM   #35
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Originally Posted by ba3darcher View Post
playing devils advocate here, but did the shoot advertise guaranteed purse amounts, if not good luck on collecting anything close to what was advertised. wording is the key to any type of promotional event.
The word garanteed was used many times.

Anyone Can Win the $32,000 Grand Prize!
Regardless of any Score on any Range, many people will make the Semifinals by sheer LUCK. Numerous lucky shots at the Balloon Pop, Draw Poker, and the Genesis Bow Shoots will qualify contestants to the Semifinals. Lucky shots at the Semifinal's Flu-Flu Shoot will guarantee a position(s) in the $128,000, 64-Bracket Final.
Making it to the Finals, guarantees you a minimum of $500.00.
The person having the most fun at the Red-Neck Parade, (I know how to have fun!!!) And one persons' name drawn from the hat..., are guaranteed to the $128,000, 64-Bracket Final. More about LUCKY SHOT to Semifinals...
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Old 10-05-2010, 03:15 PM   #36
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The web page says $250,000 in prize money

If that is not a garantee.......I don't know what is? Does a shooter need to take out an insurance policy before registration? If we were in court right now, I do not think the judge or jury would say,......"but they did not use the word GARANTEE in their advertisements"

Shooters attended and paid registration believing if they placed thery would win cash.

http://www.southernnationalarcheryfestival.com/
They accepted everyone cash and if they knew they werent going to pay they should have never taken entry fees or refunded them before the shoot started. If THATS NOT STEALING, i DONT KNOW WHAT IS!
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Old 10-05-2010, 03:19 PM   #37
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They accepted everyone cash and if they knew they werent going to pay they should have never taken entry fees or refunded them before the shoot started. If THATS NOT STEALING, i DONT KNOW WHAT IS!
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OK I am confused (you quoted me)
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Old 10-05-2010, 03:23 PM   #38
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OK I am confused (you quoted me)
Im agreeing with you
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Old 10-05-2010, 03:23 PM   #39
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OK I am confused (you quoted me)
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Old 10-05-2010, 03:28 PM   #40
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Ok, let me break this down for you, I looked at the link provided in an earlier post, it does not say $250,000 guaranteed to be given away. it does say "guaranteed to a position in the $128,000.00 in the 64 bracket final" it also says "guaranteed $500.00 if...." Do you see the difference. It does not say guaranteed $128,000.00 in prize money only guaranteed to the bracket of 64. this is what I was getting at in my previous post regarding it is all in how something is worded. It is a common misnomer that just because "guaranteed" is in the publication or flier you are going to get that amount of money.
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