tech question

J.A.G. · 10-25-2010, 12:48 PM

if an arrow shoots through paper fine and groups well with field points from 20-40 yards, but when you try it with broadheads the arrow flies 6" high.. what it the problem?

Devine Shot · 10-25-2010, 01:34 PM

You have to get the arrow and head in tune. If fixed bladed may try lining up the fetching with the blades of broadhead. if that does not work try different heads. Can def. be a headache.

TMax27 · 10-25-2010, 01:45 PM

JAG, your nocking point is too low. Move your rest down 1/32" at a time until the FP's and the BH's come together. The broadhead amplifies the slight nock height problem.

The gist of broadhead tuning is that you move your rest toward your field points, assuming your arrow/broadhead spins true and is the correct spine, the FP groups and the BH groups will come together.

Check out Easton's Tuning Guide, it has a section on broadhead tuning.

J.A.G. · 10-25-2010, 01:49 PM

Yes, fixed blade. I did that. I turned them every possible way. same results.

J.A.G. · 10-25-2010, 01:52 PM

the next thing i did was get out some completely different arrows. the field point shot great... tried 2 different types of broadheads, they shot great as well...

It was just on that one type of arrow that the broadheads would not fly, but the points would.

could just a small amount of difference in spine cause that?

TMax27 · 10-25-2010, 01:56 PM

Its my understanding that with fixed blades, any spine issue, centershot or nock height issue is amplified due to the blades steering the front end of the arrow. So, yes, a different spine could be the problem.

Was the first set of arrows squared up with a ASD? Did you check that the broadheads spun true? Just throwing out some possible explanations

J.A.G. · 10-25-2010, 02:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TMax27

Its my understanding that with fixed blades, any spine issue, centershot or nock height issue is amplified due to the blades steering the front end of the arrow. So, yes, a different spine could be the problem.

Was the first set of arrows squared up with a ASD? Yes Did you check that the broadheads spun true? Yes Just throwing out some possible explanations

I was real careful getting the centershot and nock height where i thought it should be and since the same broadheads shot fine with arrow brand #2, it has to be that arrow brand#1 was spined a little much... has to be..it just really stumped me to see them fly that much higher.

hutchies · 10-25-2010, 02:29 PM

Simple fix.............That's what broadhead tuning does. Sounds like you are a little nock low. Try raising your nock point a 1/16 or lowering your rest a 1/16 of an inch and see if it gets better. Move a 1/16 at a time til you find where the broadheads and fieldpoints meet the same point of impact. I'm assuming that you are spin testing your heads.

J.A.G. · 10-25-2010, 09:37 PM

Thanks guys.. I'll play with the nock a little and see what it does

hutchies · 11-03-2010, 09:39 AM

Well did you get it to slinging darts?

aimo61 · 11-03-2010, 07:28 PM

Hi
Watch this at youtube.com..this guy is great !

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dm_mBH9lhRw

bfisher · 11-04-2010, 02:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by J.A.G.

Yes, fixed blade. I did that. I turned them every possible way. same results.

Which just proves that lining jup fletching with the blade is hogwash.

If you don't already have a copy get Easton's Tuning Guide. It's a free download on their website, or Hunter's Friend or Archery Talk. It'' explain how to tune a bow using several methods, including broadhead tuning, which is what you need help with.

MickeyBee · 11-04-2010, 10:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bfisher

Which just proves that lining up fletching with the blade is hogwash........

Hogwash is an understatement but I do get a chuckle every time I see it posted. Sure would like to see a blade/fletch alighnment person post a scientific explanation on why this affects tune...............

that won't happen but if it does, I will have another chuckle.

MickeyBee · 11-04-2010, 11:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aimo61

Hi
Watch this at youtube.com..this guy is great !

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dm_mBH9lhRw

Maybe great in your mind but @ 0:48 he speaks of indexing (BH fletch alingnment) wich is actually harmless but just plain a waist of time. @ 4:38, and after the propper rest adjustments to get the BH's to hit the same spot as the previously shot FP's, he goes on to say, in essence, that the FP's will now impact the same point as the BH's because they are FP's (that ain't happenin).

Anyways, you may be right about him being a great guy but other than informing the uninformed that they should move their rest to get a BH's impact point to move, that video was worthless and missleading.

On the other hand I now have the confidence to make my own videos.....

Hollywood......here I cum........

TMax27 · 11-05-2010, 08:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MickeyBee

other than informing the uninformed that they should move their rest to get a BH's impact point to move...

What is your solution to getting BH's to impact with FPs?

Two main points he left out were:
1. Its a cat mouse came between your FPs and BHs, meaning you can't just adjust the rest for the BHs until the BHs hit the dot your FPs first hit. You need to keep shooting FPs to verify that you are indeed getting the two impacts points closer together.
2. After your BHs and FPs hit together, then adjust your sight.

MickeyBee · 11-05-2010, 09:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TMax27

What is your solution to getting BH's to impact with FPs?

If you have good form, bare shaft tune at 20 and then BH tune. If your BS is good, odds are that you won't need a BH tune.

If you have less than ideal form, you will have to keep moving your rest/nock point, alternating between BH's & FP's untill they share the same impact point (this is with the assumption that your equipment is up to snuff!!!). To save time, over adjust the rest on the first movement....in other words, if you were 4" low with BH's vs the FP's....adjust the rest/nock point to get an inch or two higher BH impact point before FP verification.

The best solution is practice and tuning!!!!!
After that, large fletch and/or expandables.
After that, and if you are still having problems, enjoy nature with a camera and leave the animals for someone who can make an ethical shot.

TMax27 · 11-05-2010, 10:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MickeyBee

If you have good form, bare shaft tune at 20 and then BH tune. If your BS is good, odds are that you won't need a BH tune.

If you have less than ideal form, you will have to keep moving your rest/nock point, alternating between BH's & FP's untill they share the same impact point (this is with the assumption that your equipment is up to snuff!!!). To save time, over adjust the rest on the first movement....in other words, if you were 4" low with BH's vs the FP's....adjust the rest/nock point to get an inch or two higher BH impact point before FP verification.

The best solution is practice and tuning!!!!!
After that, large fletch and/or expandables.
After that, and if you are still having problems, enjoy nature with a camera and leave the animals for someone who can make an ethical shot.

I thought you had some new revolutionary way of broadhead tuning that's why I asked. Turns out the "move your rest/nock point" method still is the way to go.

MickeyBee · 11-05-2010, 01:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TMax27

I thought you had some new revolutionary way of broadhead tuning............

LOL......sorry if I dissappointed you......but now that I think of it, there is this guy who does. I'll ask him this Sunday when I go to his house.

TMax27 · 11-05-2010, 01:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MickeyBee

LOL......sorry if I dissappointed you......but now that I think of it, there is this guy who does. I'll ask him this Sunday when I go to his house.

Hmmm... Very interested.

kp571 · 11-06-2010, 06:22 PM

JAG, I had a similiar situation one time. My arrows shot perfect with field points but was very erratic with broadheads. What I ended up doing was going to the next stiffer spine size on my arrows. That fixed my problem. Maybe it's worth trying. Hope this helps.

hutchies · 11-08-2010, 10:31 AM

I line mine up with fletching but only for 1 reason..............To have them all INDEXED the same. Take 3 fixed blades and set the blades all at different positions and tell me how they fly.

MickeyBee · 11-08-2010, 10:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TMax27

Hmmm... Very interested.

OK, went to his house (church)....talked to the man (God).....

Still waiting for a responce, but in the mean time, rereading the previous post's may bring you up to speed.

hutchies · 11-09-2010, 09:20 AM

For the life of me I can't figure out why guys are so scared of moving their rest. It's like if they move it they will never get it back to where they started if they screwed up. Make a mark.........move the rest. If it doesn't get better move it back to the mark..............Wow rocket science

Hook Em · 11-09-2010, 09:24 AM

OK..so what if some BH's hit with my FT's fine, but others won't? My Rage and Slick Tricks shoot with my FT's, but if I screw on a bigger blade like a Stinger, it isn't anywhere close.

TMax27 · 11-12-2010, 03:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MickeyBee

OK, went to his house (church)....talked to the man (God).....

Still waiting for a responce, but in the mean time, rereading the previous post's may bring you up to speed.

I reread how you were contradicting yourself... I like your second answer better

TMax27 · 11-12-2010, 03:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hutchies

For the life of me I can't figure out why guys are so scared of moving their rest. It's like if they move it they will never get it back to where they started if they screwed up. Make a mark.........move the rest. If it doesn't get better move it back to the mark..............Wow rocket science

Me niether

TMax27 · 11-12-2010, 03:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hutchies

I line mine up with fletching but only for 1 reason..............To have them all INDEXED the same. Take 3 fixed blades and set the blades all at different positions and tell me how they fly.

Are you saying that broadhead blade alignment doesn't matter, you do it just so they will all be the same?

tazzman · 11-13-2010, 05:59 AM

Hey Tmax,

What Hutchies is doing is making sure that his arrows are all the same. If they aren't and you have a problem, you'll never know where to start the fix-your-problem process. Remember the old saying: Change only one thing at a time. Then you will know if that change is good or not.

Cheers

Phil aka tazzman

longcut36 · 11-13-2010, 08:07 AM

guess I have been doing it wrong for a long time. I get my arrows flying good with field points. take them out put them in a box throw them on my work brench. screw in broad heads that weigh the same. resight bow. couple of hours I'm dead on the spot. after hunting season put field points in and resight bow. why worry about were the field points impact. you dont hunt with them.

hutchies · 11-16-2010, 12:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tazzman

Hey Tmax,

What Hutchies is doing is making sure that his arrows are all the same. If they aren't and you have a problem, you'll never know where to start the fix-your-problem process. Remember the old saying: Change only one thing at a time. Then you will know if that change is good or not.

Cheers

Phil aka tazzman

You hit the nail on the head.........I just want them all exactly the same. Whether my main blade is at 1, 2, or 3 o'clock..........I don't think the alignment matters so much as the consistancy of them all being indexed the same.

MickeyBee · 11-16-2010, 01:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hutchies

You hit the nail on the head.........I just want them all exactly the same. Whether my main blade is at 1, 2, or 3 o'clock..........I don't think the alignment matters so much as the consistancy of them all being indexed the same.

The beauty of a 3 blade BH is that any accumulated lift generated by the blades is the same and in the same direction reguardless of their orientation for a given situation. If anybody is looking to split hairs they are much better off marking the spine (weak or strong point) of their arrows and indexing that point relative to some other axis. Now 2 blade BH's are another matter....

okoutlaw · 11-17-2010, 06:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hook Em

OK..so what if some BH's hit with my FT's fine, but others won't? My Rage and Slick Tricks shoot with my FT's, but if I screw on a bigger blade like a Stinger, it isn't anywhere close.

Really? I have used Magnus Stingers for three years and shot three diff bows they all have hit just bout hole for hole out to 50 yards as FPS. May not look like it but those dudes will fly and so sharp if you smell them your nose bleeds!

J.A.G. · 11-18-2010, 01:36 PM

i see a bunch of variables -

1. its a brand new bow, new set up.. How do i know that my rest was right to begin with, could it be that my pins are all wrong too?

Here's another thing we discovered... helical. some arrows have more than others and this does affect how the broadhead flies.

Too much spine is a problem. My bow is a 45# max and 400 spine does not fly right out of it.

my solution for the time being is - Use the arrows that hit the x and forget the others.

Thanks for all the advice... i will look into all of this more when i get done hunting.. Right now its working and i really dont want to make any adjustments.