arrow tuning

upnorth · 12-27-2010, 09:43 AM

if you could only tune arrows one way which of these three do you think would be the best . group tuning, spine tuning , or hooter shooter tuning.

MeanV2 · 12-27-2010, 11:24 AM

Group tuning, walk back tuning, bareshaft tuning

Dan

upnorth · 12-28-2010, 09:48 AM

i make a dozen arrows for myself . and try to make them as much the same as possible usually 1 grain difference . then i shoot them with my bow with everything tuned to me . when i put them in the hooter the first round usually ends up with under a 2 inch group at 23 yards if i dont find a real bad arrow . when i get done all arrows cut one hole probably around 3/8 group . then i shoot them at 38 yards keeping them under a inch . do you think the ways you mention builds a more consistent arrow ? we went to a shoot this year and had guys challenge us to a beer shoot . my arrows and my staff shooters arrows are done the same . now this was a good day will never say it happens every day . but my partner put 4 out of 6 shots and i put 5 out of 6 shots in a beer can at 95 yards . and i beleive it was mostly do to the way the arrows were tuned allowing us to keep that tight of group at that distance .dont know if hes still on here but one of the people that shot against us is on this forum .

Gator eye · 12-28-2010, 02:15 PM

When I build my arrows I get them as close in weight as I can, put number on them and start shooting. I shoot each arrow at the same spot for a couple of games. It doesn't take long to pick out the arrows that don't fly the same as the rest. They will group just alittle above the X or to one side of the X. When I find one or two that group off the X I turn the knock and start again. I do this intil it falls in line or I change the knock out, this usually takes care of the problem but if it don't I spin test, change the tip, refletch, and if all that fails I simply break it in half and throw it away.

pse 24 · 12-28-2010, 03:39 PM

You put 5 out of 6 arrows in a beer can at 95 yards and your asking us about tunning???

I think what ever you have been doing in the past is working for you and I wouldn't change a thing.

tmdegraw · 12-28-2010, 06:33 PM

There is a very interesting product that just came out called the Velocitip. It is an electronic field point that allows you to measure your velocity, kinetic energy, momentum and drag coefficient at launch and impact. Its marketed as a ballistic measurement system, and looks to have excellent potential for establishing the best set up for a specific bow. Check it out for more details.
www.velocitip.com

Gator eye · 12-29-2010, 07:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tmdegraw

There is a very interesting product that just came out called the Velocitip. It is an electronic field point that allows you to measure your velocity, kinetic energy, momentum and drag coefficient at launch and impact. Its marketed as a ballistic measurement system, and looks to have excellent potential for establishing the best set up for a specific bow. Check it out for more details.
www.velocitip.com

You know I'm pretty annal about my equipment and the gagets to make them better, but really isn't that alittle over the top?

If the arrows are going to the X when you have a good shot, and anybody that shoots a fair amount knows a good shot when they shoot it, is all that needed to tune a bow and arrow?

upnorth · 12-29-2010, 09:45 AM

no sir im not asking you how to tune arrows . im asking what you think is the best way . but not everyone is going to pay over 1200.00 dollars on a tuner . if i was asked what i perferred i would go with the hooter . it doesnt get tired when shooting and sometimes i get a batch 6 plus arrows that i can get to go exactly through the same hole . be like a guy coming close to 6 robin hoods in a row . i shoot well for a old man but but at 20 yards if a arrow hits a 1/4 inch from another one is it me or the arrow i dont know .the other ways work well but i dont know if there as exact . would like to have someone come in that done there arrows there way and put them in the machine and see what happens . thing is up here there very few of those guys . all of the guys i go to shoots with shoot long distances not one of us is a spot shooter so were not into the 20 yard grouping like alot of you .ive had the range 8 years and for the last 3 ive tried a 5 spot tourny . best ive ever done is 8 shooters so i dropped it this year .just to clarify the arrow that didnt hit the can that day went in the eye bolt that was holding the can but they wouldnt give it to me . but like i said we had a good day wont happen every day but we will try .

wilkersonhunter · 12-31-2010, 06:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pse 24

You put 5 out of 6 arrows in a beer can at 95 yards and your asking us about tunning???

I think what ever you have been doing in the past is working for you and I wouldn't change a thing.

to that keep doing what youre doing!! great shooting

Allen · 12-31-2010, 09:50 AM

To achieve near perfect arrow to arrow consistency, it's hard to beat the Hooter Shooter or one of the other shooting machines.

I've had arrows that just won't shoot to the same point of impact as the others and I can't find anything different about it except that it doesn't fly the same.

Testing arrows by hand is a very time consuming process compared to the shooting machine.

The Hooter Shooter seems to be the best of the shooting machines, but there is an interesting tread on AT that shows you how to build something very similar for about $160.

If you don't have access to a shooing machine, shooting through paper is probably the second best. However, it will hurt your feelings when you realize that most shots that aren't consistent are due to operator error rather than arrows that are not consistent. I was doing this yesterday and it took quite a bit of shooting to find one arrow that was giving a different tear than the others. Of course this process does double duty in that you can work on improving your bow hand relaxation at the same time.

Of course if you think that a lot of shooting for any reason is a hardship, this is probably not the sport for you.

Allen

upnorth · 01-01-2011, 08:56 AM

ive shot a lot of arrows over the years . and since ive done my arrows on the machine i never question how one will fly . im 99.9 pct sure that when i miss its me , not my arrows and hardy ever my bow . and i can usually adjust me if thers a problem .

upnorth · 01-01-2011, 05:30 PM

2nd and 3rd shot of 1/1/2011 at 45 yards say there flying pretty good.will say one thing with these victory arrows , the hoods dont go in nowhere as fasr as other arrows ive shot .

Brown Hornet · 01-06-2011, 12:21 PM

Group tune... for me.

Spine tuning....not sure how you do that. But I buy arrows that I know have a consistent spine.

Hooter Shooter....I will NEVER have a Hooter Shooter unless I win the lottery or someone leaves Ms Hornet a ton of money. So I don't worry about that...besides I can pretty much achieve the same results doing it myself. NO I can't shoot as good as a Hooter Shooter can but I can still get pretty much the same results....the groups just won't be as small and it may take a little longer

But then the only real "tuning" from what is mentioned IMO is group tuning.....your not moving anything with the Hooter Shooter at least not by the description given above and I still have no idea what Spine Tuning is

upnorth · 01-07-2011, 09:35 AM

heres a question would you pay to be able to send your arrows off and have them tuned on the hooter shooter .to group in less then a 1 inch . and know which arrows wont group with the rest .

Brown Hornet · 01-07-2011, 10:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by upnorth

heres a question would you pay to be able to send your arrows off and have them tuned on the hooter shooter .to group in less then a 1 inch . and know which arrows wont group with the rest .

I personally wouldn't.....I am sure that people would. But I have never had a problem getting arrows to shoot together.

MeanV2 · 01-07-2011, 10:51 AM

Nor would I! I have purposely shot arrows in groups from 40 yards fletched different, etc and it always amazes me how good the groups are. Check the important stuff on your arrows, straightness, heads aligned proper, etc and tune your bow.

If you are not a way above normal shooter no use in being anal

Dan

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brown Hornet

I personally wouldn't.....I am sure that people would. But I have never had a problem getting arrows to shoot together.

Allen · 01-07-2011, 11:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by upnorth

heres a question would you pay to be able to send your arrows off and have them tuned on the hooter shooter .to group in less then a 1 inch . and know which arrows wont group with the rest .

I wouldn't either. Arrows have never been my excuse for missing. It's always been operator error.

Wouldn't you have to send in your bow also? The arrows may be consistent, but if they aren't tuned to the bow, it's pretty much a waste of money.

Also, the HS doesn't use the same release that I do. I've seen big differences on tuning just by changing from a double jaw caliper to a single jaw caliper.

I think someone has offered this service before, but don't remember the details. Besides, I enjoy messing with my equipment too much to pay someone else to do it.

Allen

Allen · 01-07-2011, 11:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MeanV2

Nor would I! I have purposely shot arrows in groups from 40 yards fletched different, etc and it always amazes me how good the groups are. Check the important stuff on your arrows, straightness, heads aligned proper, etc and tune your bow.

If you are not a way above normal shooter no use in being anal

Dan

Dan,

Last summer, I found eight arrows at a public range. After I checked them over for cracks or other problems I shot them at 20 & 30 yards. These arrows were all different in one way or the other. Different manufacturer, different spine & differnt fletching.

Out to 30 yards there was little difference in point of impact. The only thing that mattered was diameter. Two were a little smaller and they landed lower.

This pretty much convinced me that for a well tuned compound, shot with a release, arrow matching isn't a big issue out to 20 to 30 yards.

Of course I'm as anal as anyone when it comes to my hunting and competition arrows, but not for practice arrows.

Allen

MeanV2 · 01-07-2011, 11:30 AM

I use several different releases in the off season just kind of like a grab bag selection. I just reach in and grab one!

I do this because I don't want to get used to how a specific release goes off and then develop bad habits, but different releases will definitely cause a different POI.

Dan

Quote:

Originally Posted by Allen

Also, the HS doesn't use the same release that I do. I've seen big differences on tuning just by changing from a double jaw caliper to a single jaw caliper.

Allen

Brown Hornet · 01-07-2011, 12:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Allen

I wouldn't either. Arrows have never been my excuse for missing. It's always been operator error.

Wouldn't you have to send in your bow also? The arrows may be consistent, but if they aren't tuned to the bow, it's pretty much a waste of money.

Also, the HS doesn't use the same release that I do. I've seen big differences on tuning just by changing from a double jaw caliper to a single jaw caliper.

I think someone has offered this service before, but don't remember the details. Besides, I enjoy messing with my equipment too much to pay someone else to do it.

Allen

None of that matters....the bow will be tuned to the arrow. He wouldn't be tuning your bow. The release doesn't matter either....you can shoot 50 different releases your bow and arrow tune isn't changing even though your POI may. You just need to move your sight.

When your tuning your arrows in a Hooter Shooter to hit the same hole all your doing is rotating your nocks to achieve this. If it won't hit then you change the nock or pin. If it still won't then you weed out the arrow. I find that shooting "better" arrows and or building them correctly eliminates the need to weed them out. I can't tell you the last time I had an arrow that I couldn't get to hit with the rest of the shafts....even when I have 2+ doz for field.

MickeyBee · 01-07-2011, 10:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brown Hornet

Spine tuning....not sure how you do that. But I buy arrows that I know have a consistent spine.

Not exactly sure about that one myself but I do know that all of the arrows I have bought have two weak spots approx 180* apart.

My guess would be that the arrows weak or strong spine area is rotated so that they are all the same with respect to each other and some axis on the bow (horizontal/vertical).

Just a guess.

upnorth · 01-08-2011, 09:31 AM

onced tuned in the machine they shoot in any bow of the same weight . but not all bows will shoot in the machine depending on there handles .when you guys finish your group tunning what size group do you think you have achieved on a 12 arrow batch .most of the ones i do when finished have less then a 1/2" point to point group at 23 yards ( i can shoot the machine up to 37 yards were its mounted at ,sometimes it takes 1 1/2 hour to do 12 .with a majority of them cutting the same hole .

Allen · 01-08-2011, 10:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brown Hornet

None of that matters....the bow will be tuned to the arrow. He wouldn't be tuning your bow. The release doesn't matter either....you can shoot 50 different releases your bow and arrow tune isn't changing even though your POI may. You just need to move your sight.

When your tuning your arrows in a Hooter Shooter to hit the same hole all your doing is rotating your nocks to achieve this. If it won't hit then you change the nock or pin. If it still won't then you weed out the arrow. I find that shooting "better" arrows and or building them correctly eliminates the need to weed them out. I can't tell you the last time I had an arrow that I couldn't get to hit with the rest of the shafts....even when I have 2+ doz for field.

I guess I'm thinking of "arrow tuning" as being more than just aligning the nocks with the spine. Except for really top archers, it seems it would be faster & easier to do this on a spine tester. Obviously not as precise since it doesn't take the dynamic spine into account, but good enough for most of us.

Upnorth, most of us can't compare groups we get from manual group tuning to your HS groups. this is because we don't shoot as good as a HS (except maybe for Jessie and a very few of others). We may be achieving nock & spine alignment equal to the HS, but our form keeps us from honestly reporting 1/2" groups.

Allen

upnorth · 01-08-2011, 10:48 AM

heres some before and after . these are maxima 3d selects . theres less then 1 grain difference according to the scale . picture one is with arrows that it took me a couple hours to build .and shot once each at 23 yards . the second picture is after tuning them .if you guys can get that same group,group tuning thats in my second picture every time shooting off hand more power to you .im sticking with the machine dont have to question any arrow wether its me or the arrow i know if i miss its me and i can adjust me .

Brown Hornet · 01-08-2011, 11:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by upnorth

onced tuned in the machine they shoot in any bow of the same weight . but not all bows will shoot in the machine depending on there handles .when you guys finish your group tunning what size group do you think you have achieved on a 12 arrow batch .most of the ones i do when finished have less then a 1/2" point to point group at 23 yards ( i can shoot the machine up to 37 yards were its mounted at ,sometimes it takes 1 1/2 hour to do 12 .with a majority of them cutting the same hole .

Once the nocks are turned they should shoot the same from ANY bow regardless of the weight. They are still going to be coming out of the bow the same.....Vegas was won by Terry Ragesdale one year shooting arrows that looked like they were doing flips coming out of his bow. But they were all doing the same flip so that's all that mattered :wink:

23 yds is pretty close though....I am not the best shot on the planet but a little better then avg. The other night while shooting a 5 spot round. 2 of my spots pretty much had 1 hole in the X until the last few ends....the other 3 had a little bigger hole and not in the center of the X but I also need to replace those nocks. But getting same hole or close to it by hand....if you can shoot good enough to hold that type of group is easy up close which I consider 23 yds to be. Shooting field my arrows are usually close enough to pull at least 3 of them at once under 30 yds. The ones not in the group aren't there because they weren't weren't tuned

Here are some pics from last year when I was group tuning at 60...a couple of the broken nocks came at 40...but it isn't hard to get them all smoking down the pipe with a little time. It usually doesn't take me a full hour to get them all turned

My misses are usually left by the way....

but once you get them shooting the same hole or in the group you have to be able to get them back when you bust a nock and or a pin

upnorth · 01-08-2011, 11:58 AM

not questioning your arrows or shooting . but it would be interesting to see if you were in the area to take your tuned arrows and run them through the machine and see if they get one hole .

Brown Hornet · 01-08-2011, 02:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by upnorth

not questioning your arrows or shooting . but it would be interesting to see if you were in the area to take your tuned arrows and run them through the machine and see if they get one hole .

oh I know your not.....but really for me doing that unless it's for my indoor arrows is a waste of time. Why..... because I shoot field....I go through WAY too many nocks and pins to have to slap everything back in the machine all the time. Those broken nocks in the pic were from less then an hour of shooting. Granted I don't go through that many every time....but I do have to change at least 3-4 every time I shoot just about. So I have to be able to get them back in the group....which I can do.

Those are Nano's....trust me they will shoot the same hole

you don't break nocks at 60 yds repeatedly with out being able to put them in the same hole at 20 yds from a shooting machine. Braden G is the #1 in the World...after we got his set up they were shooting better then his old X10s....we are talking $3-400 shafts....if they don't go in the same hole it's because they are the size of a needle.

I have had almost 4 doz Nanos since I started shooting them....I have NEVER had a flier shaft or one that I couldn't get into the group. If it wouldn't group with the others it was a bent pin.

upnorth · 01-08-2011, 02:45 PM

just said it would be interesting . nothing about your shooting capabilities.but what ever .

Brown Hornet · 01-08-2011, 02:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by upnorth

just said it would be interesting . nothing about your shooting capabilities.but what ever .

I understand that....but I'm not really talking about my ability....your reading into my comments. What I mean is that there is no way that they won't do it. If they don't go into the EXACT same hole repeatedly it would be because the shafts are so small you may get a wallowed out type hole. My shafts are .203" in diameter....a Maxima is .290" that doesn't seem like a big difference but it is HUGE...with no point I think I can fit 3 of my arrows in one shaft

a CXL is .350"....I can get those and 2314s in the same hole by hand and so can many others....they just do it every time

Nano's are one of the two best shafts on the planet....X10s and Nano's have been shot from a Hooter Shooter by TONS of people....and they go in the same hole. You just haven't gotten to play with them yet.

but think about it....do you really think you could get a "cheap" or avg hunting shaft or X7 or other fat carbon to go in the same hole and not the best shafts ever made? It's unlikely to no happen

No I won't be in Wisc anytime soon to try it though....although I may be in Wisc next week it won't be for archery purposes