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Old 02-20-2011, 02:49 AM   #1
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Default Red EYE peeps

My buddy bought one, and he likes it, im not sure what the difference between one of those and a regular peep is, maybe there is no difference at all....it seems like it claims it draws more light into the peep, helping visability? is there any validity to this, or is it just an advertisement?
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Old 02-20-2011, 04:36 AM   #2
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I have one and it has worked great for me. Some other people haven't had good luck with them as some had their string cut by sharp edges on the peep.
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Old 02-20-2011, 08:32 AM   #3
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Sounds like a silly claim to me. a 1/8th hole or a 3/16ths hole or 1/4 hole from G5 or Fletcher or Specialty or red eye , the size of the aperture is going to be the determining factor.

There is evidence that a matte black hole that is recessed/shaded is the best way to go in prevent glare . ie, you wont find in serious iron sight target rifle shooter with anything other than a matte black peep and some take an extra step to 'blacken' them wth a lil soot/smoke.

Red eye got a real black eye by unloading many of these units with burrs on the edges which cut 100s of strings which the company replaced. Im frankly suprised they are still in biz after that but have to commend them by paying for the damage theyre defected accesories caused.

Considering what has been the standard peep for eons , the matte black smooth aluminum Fletcher is $4 or $5 and the red eye is like $15. i guess this300% bump allows more profit margin for dealers and allows more padding for replace all the twisted 8125 and 452 theyre product sliced? and colored peeps are more fashionable tham matte black.

When you buy a red eye, how do you know its not one of the defect ones? i dont want to chance putting one on my string to find out, do you?

To quote Jack Nicholsons character in a "few Good Men" now were going to find out if this forum can handle the truth.
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Old 02-20-2011, 10:33 AM   #4
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I used one all last summer and hunting season. They are larger on the exit side hole than they are on the entrance side and definitely do gather more light. They are also a great seller because of the way they perform! I have the Red ones and a few Black & Pink in stock and more Black & Pink coming as soon as they are available.

There were a few bad prototypes that got out in Jan of 2010 but problem has been corrected a long time ago

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Old 02-20-2011, 10:41 AM   #5
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There was actually about 600 defective ones got out most of them given away at the ATA show in 2010 many of them were able to be recalled. Mike did make good on any claims, and I doubt after selling over 40,000 peeps he is hurting

They were hardly unloading them as you put it

He has even expanded the Red Eye peep line this year to include Black & Pink, and I must say the 2011's look even better than last years.

I think you have been on AT too much

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Red eye got a real black eye by unloading many of these units with burrs on the edges which cut 100s of strings which the company replaced. Im frankly suprised they are still in biz after that but have to commend them by paying for the damage theyre defected accesories caused.
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Old 02-20-2011, 02:11 PM   #6
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per Leupold optics or apertures do not gather light, they transmit light.
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Old 02-20-2011, 02:53 PM   #7
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However you want to word it they work and that's all my customers care about.

My sales of G5's and Tru-peeps have fell off while sales of the Red Eye has sky rocketed. Most customers coming back and buying more peeps for all their bows.

Dan


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per Leupold optics or apertures do not gather light, they transmit light.
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Old 02-20-2011, 03:44 PM   #8
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If you look closely at the peep you will see that the side facing up toward the sky is dished out to allow more light and give a crisper view. It works and works well, I've played with them and seen the difference easily.

The reason they are still "in business" is because they made a mistake, owned up to it, and took care of every customer without a single excuse. That goes along way toward gathering my trust and respect these days...which this business seems to lack more and more.
I'm continually amazed at people who will openly bash a company on the net with no disregard of how it will affect the company and then claim to be "spouting the truth". The OP asked if they work, nothing more.

They work.
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Old 02-20-2011, 04:28 PM   #9
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I dont want to get in a big stink about this. The only valid point you guys are making is the Company stood behind its product and corrected the problem for customers.

On a non optical aperture it doesnt matter how scooped out it is. The size of the aperture hole is going to be the determining factor on how much light is transmitted. Considering in a low light enviroment the sun is just coming up or about to go down and typically isnt exactly at 12 o clock high or your under a shady foilage canopy.

Under most circumstances a de burred red eye is just as good as anything else when comparing to anything else with the same aperture size.

In a high glare ,difficult lighting enviroment, I have my doubts if it would be as good as a matte black unit.

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Old 02-20-2011, 04:42 PM   #10
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I'm sure you've never used one

Dan



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I dont want to get in a big stink about this. The only valid point you guys are making is the Company stood behind its product and corrected the problem for customers.

On a non optical aperture it doesnt matter how scooped out it is. The size of the aperture hole is going to be the determining factor on how much light is transmitted. Considering in a low light enviroment the sun is just coming up or about to go down and typically isnt exactly at 12 o clock high or your under a shady foilage canopy.

Under most circumstances a de burred red eye is just as good as anything else when comparing to anything else with the same aperture size.

In a high glare ,difficult lighting enviroment, I have my doubts if it would be as good as a matte black unit.
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Old 02-20-2011, 04:51 PM   #11
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spoken like a true salesman
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Old 02-20-2011, 05:06 PM   #12
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Thank You!! It's hard to give an accurate review on any product you have not used. That's why I switch things up a lot so I have first hand experience, but............................

I also rely on feedback from all my customers. It really does give me a feel for what works for most guys and what does not

Dan



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spoken like a true salesman
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Old 02-20-2011, 05:15 PM   #13
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If you have not used one, get one and try it. But don't bash it if you have not tried it.I have used one and it does make a difference. It has also cut my string. They sent me some of the gen 2 versions plus a check to cover replacement of my strings. But after the first cut string, I decided to get rid of them and go back to my G5. Not bashing them. Just no confidence.
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Old 02-20-2011, 05:18 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by asa1485 View Post
If you have not used one, get one and try it. But don't bash it if you have not tried it.I have used one and it does make a difference. It has also cut my string. They sent me some of the gen 2 versions plus a check to cover replacement of my strings. But after the first cut string, I decided to get rid of them and go back to my G5. Not bashing them. Just no confidence.


ASA, difference in what?
Did it benefit your aiming or shooting? or would it just be better suited for a treestand bow?
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Old 02-20-2011, 05:20 PM   #15
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I understand the confidence thing. It is huge in Archery.

Honestly I have sold 100's of these peeps without even one issue. The 2011's even look better.

Dan



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If you have not used one, get one and try it. But don't bash it if you have not tried it.I have used one and it does make a difference. It has also cut my string. They sent me some of the gen 2 versions plus a check to cover replacement of my strings. But after the first cut string, I decided to get rid of them and go back to my G5. Not bashing them. Just no confidence.
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Old 02-20-2011, 05:23 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kgoss33@gmail.com View Post
ASA, difference in what?
Did it benefit your aiming or shooting? or would it just be better suited for a treestand bow?
It actually allowed more light in my peep in the evenings when hunting and I could see my pins better. Also, 3D season I did not get a glare when in full sun like I have with others.

So yes, it did benefit my shooting in both 3D and hunting. If you want one, I think I have a brand new 1/4 inch one I can send you.
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Old 02-20-2011, 05:25 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MeanV2 View Post
I understand the confidence thing. It is huge in Archery.

Honestly I have sold 100's of these peeps without even one issue. The 2011's even look better.

Dan
I know. They are very popular and I really like them. I will just have to wait until all the string things die down and my confience goes up a little. The guys at EP have been nothing but great and standup about the whole deal. Wish other companies would follow their business model in that respect.
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Old 02-20-2011, 05:54 PM   #18
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allright, I called my optical technician friend who's has the equipment to measure light transmission. He says get a redeye and a fletcher of the same size aperture and he can measure the amount of light transmission with a couple different pieces of equipment.

the test as he explained it is in a darkroom and a specific strength light source from the same distance, he can measure the amount of light getting through. He states the apeture size is going to be the only determining factor.He would be shocked if there is any measurable difference. Furthermore he states the reason why scopes and binos, camera lenses are matte black on inside is to cut out reflection and reduce distortion.

pm me and send me a red eye, I will buy a fletcher of the same size if i dont already have one that size and I will get them tested

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Old 02-20-2011, 07:22 PM   #19
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Thanks but I hardly need a machine under an artificial situation to tell me something that my eyes and 100's of other customers tell me. The feedback is overwhemlingly positive for the Red Eye.

I have all 3 peeps in stock. It hardly makes me any difference but I do know what I will be shooting

I have customers tell me they prefer .019 pins, others prefer .029, yet some prefer .010, and some even prefer .039. That tells me everyones eyes can be different. I guess that's why they make all sizes.

Also the reason I stock all 3 peeps. People can get what they want, and after using them all. I have made my choice

I doubt if $6 makes much of a difference one way or the other

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Old 02-20-2011, 07:26 PM   #20
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to cut through the bull, yes you do.

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Old 02-20-2011, 07:49 PM   #21
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This is the reason AT sucks, you say one thing and it turns into a pissing match, it's all about proving a point, who knows more, instead of everyone adding their .02, its an ego thing, everybody is different, one person might shoot a BT release better than a caliper, and vice versa, none of it's wrong, it's about YOU, and YOUR personal needs.....i dont care about a light emission test, or what a hooter shooter tells me, or what a pro balance does for my stabilizer set up, when you add the human factor, everything becomes personal.

If everyone buying your red eye peeps are happy, awesome.....if your buddy is able to tell you how much light variance there is gona be between brand A, B, and C peeps, good for you too, but all i asked was what people thought, so apparently you dont like them, because your opinion is they dont do enough to make you switch, or even anything at all, Meanv you like them because of sales, and your own personal belief in them.
thats all i was after, problem solved.

-Kyle
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Old 02-20-2011, 08:06 PM   #22
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Hold up there . When Vapor trail peeps claims " superior light gathering properties" and Red Eyes claims "better aiming in low light situations" when in reality they are no better then anything else on the market , Im callin the BS.

Im not pro anything per say, I own fletcher and specialty peeps, there are others on the market that are just fine. Im not saying a de burred redeye or VT is a bad peep, if someone says theyre superior, prove it in an accurate, scientific way, not the snake oil method.

Remember the expensive carbon impregnated scent lock suits they used to sell and had to take off the market because it was all BS.

the test offer still stands. Im sure you will get acceptable results from a deburred redeye.

I dont like the taste of BS , some people cant get enough
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Old 02-20-2011, 08:11 PM   #23
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I've never tried a Red eye, reading about em and asking questions is the best way i know how, i dont care about string weight, and i dont know if half the stuff companies claim to do, actually do what they are marketed to do....im just looking for something to make my sight picture even clearer than it is now.
Im going to open class next year, and a scope works better for me, and im sure everything will be much clearer with that set up, but right now, im shooting MBR and i want the clearest sight picture i can get. I heard this peep was good for this stuff, just trying to clear thru the BS as well.
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Old 02-20-2011, 08:14 PM   #24
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in most cases a smaller aperture will clear things up if that is an issue.the eye will focus easier on a smaller hole at the cost of light transmisson
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Old 02-20-2011, 08:23 PM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kgoss33@gmail.com View Post
I've never tried a Red eye, reading about em and asking questions is the best way i know how, i dont care about string weight, and i dont know if half the stuff companies claim to do, actually do what they are marketed to do....im just looking for something to make my sight picture even clearer than it is now.
Im going to open class next year, and a scope works better for me, and im sure everything will be much clearer with that set up, but right now, im shooting MBR and i want the clearest sight picture i can get. I heard this peep was good for this stuff, just trying to clear thru the BS as well.
You may have missed it but, my offer still stands. I have I believe a 1/4 inch red eye. If you want it, just pm me your address bud and I will get it out to you. It is the gen 2 model they sent me.
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Old 02-20-2011, 08:51 PM   #26
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Quote:
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in most cases a smaller aperture will clear things up if that is an issue.the eye will focus easier on a smaller hole at the cost of light transmisson

So your saying if i put a smaller peep in my string, i'll see my sight picture clearer?
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Old 02-20-2011, 10:46 PM   #27
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Im saying as a general statement, a smaller peep allows the eye to focus better. I dont know for sure what your issue is, you could need glasses or if you already wear them, need another prescription. Brite Site and Specialty archery also make verifiers and clarifiers, peeps with lenses in them to deal with certain eye issues.
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Old 02-21-2011, 12:33 AM   #28
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G'day,

I'm new here, and just got back into archery after a 10 year hiatus, but I have a fairly good understanding of optics and apertures, since in those interveneing ten years I got into amateur astronomy and have picked up on a few things along the way.

Firstly, the red colour of the peep is to help the eye, as we have rods and cones on the suface of our retina, which are sensitive to specific wavelengths of light. Rods, from memory (correct me if I'm wrong) are sensitive to red and is picked up better than any other colour, as we have more rods than cones (left over from the days when we were lower on the food chain). Rods, and therefore the colour red, is better seen by our eyes under low light conditions, like dusk and dawn.

Now, as per the aperature, the red peep takes advantage of the doppler effect when looking down a sight tube, the longer the sight tube (imagine a galliean / refractor telescope, a small opening at one end, the end you look into and a larger objective end) the more the end of the sight tube will appear to narrow, therefore lessening the amount of light that may be available to act upon the retina. To counteract this effect, the end of the sight tube is widened, in direct proportion to the effect, therefore giving the appearance of a uniform tube. Widening the aperture with a slight conical shape will counter the doppler effects and maintain contrast. Increased contrast will also help with edge definition of the aperture to more precisely to align the edges of the aperture with the outside edge of the sight ring.

I recently have started making my own peeps, because I have not been able to find a satisfactory peep that is able to take full advantage of available light and maintain contrast. Also my eyes are getting older, and my dominant eye (right) needs a prescription grind on my glasses, needs special requirements to see properly, so I have found that a 5/32" I.D aperture is perfect for me. To minimise the doppler effect, I have made my peeps thinner, approximately 3mm thick, but the O.D of the peep is approx. 12mm wide. This width makes it easier to actually see peep itself and helps define the inside edge of the aperture to align with the sight ring.
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Old 02-21-2011, 02:24 AM   #29
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Quote:
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Im saying as a general statement, a smaller peep allows the eye to focus better. I dont know for sure what your issue is, you could need glasses or if you already wear them, need another prescription. Brite Site and Specialty archery also make verifiers and clarifiers, peeps with lenses in them to deal with certain eye issues.
Actually, it's the opposite, Compound Comedian, a larger peep would help the eye to focus better, because a larger aperature would allow more light to reach the eye's lens and allow said light to act more efficiently upon the retina. You may be confusing it with the theory that a very small aperture may act as a lens by re-focusing or correctly aligning the light wavelengths as they pass through the aperture. I remember making pin hole film camera's in science class at school to demonstrate this effect. The size of the aperture will be totally dependent on how far the lens, or in this case, the peep, is from the eye and it's ability to allow sufficient light to properly act upon the lens of the eye and allow the lens to focus it correctly onto the retina. The biggest problem I see with most peeps is the edge definition of the aperture, or spherical aberration, this is an effect where the edges are blurry but the centre is clear and in focus. That is why I've made my own, my peeps allows for this effect and corrects it somewhat by the simple task of being thinner.

The size of an aperture is totally dependant on an individuals eye and it's lens characteristics, so a particular aperture may work for one, but may not work for another. It's up to the individual to decide what is best for himself through experimentation.
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Old 02-21-2011, 05:48 AM   #30
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My dear down under friend, there is a plethora of information on the internet verifying my statement.
A smaller peep will help the eye focus better, but as you go smaller, you start losing light and have to go bigger for indoor and a hunting rig needs to be bigger to handle low light situations.

Your "Red" explanation is so full of duck bill platypus droppings its ridiculously hysterical. Name one quality telescope or binocular or other optic instrument thats interior walls arent matte black on the inside. When Swarovski and Ziess start making there stuff with red anodized interiors, I will apologise, until then.....

As light diminishes , red is the 1st color to go, then yellow, then green last. Thats why green fibre optics is the best color.

http://74.6.239.185/search/srpcache?...3i5AxGUiAWUQ--

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Old 02-21-2011, 07:57 AM   #31
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the bluriness is due to the eye can only focus on 1 plane. when your sighting your looking through a peep aperture a pin and the target. you should focus on the target and the pin and outer edges of the peep should be a lil bit blurry.
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Old 02-21-2011, 10:17 AM   #32
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Wow, a guy comes in here (an optometrist from the looks of it) with actual science to explain why things work and you tell him he doesn't know what he's talking about.
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Old 02-21-2011, 10:44 AM   #33
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? huh, the guy says he is an amatuer astromoner. My guy is an engineer with Vistakon.
How many scentlock suits did you buy Super?
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Old 02-21-2011, 11:06 AM   #34
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Anyone that thinks the same thing will work for everyone is either pretty narrow minded or very inexperienced, maybe even just hard headed.

It's the reason they make Single cams, Dual cams, Binary Cams, and Cam and 1/2's

It's also the reason I have Red Eye, Tru-Peep, G5 Meta, and Vapor Trail peeps all in stock.

I'm sure it is also the reason they make .010, .019, .029, & .039 pins

I also have guys request Red, Yellow, and Green top pins as their top pin because they can see one color longer than the other as dark sets in.

I sell them what they want and don't tell them it can't be true because that's not what I see or use

Dan
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Old 02-21-2011, 11:33 AM   #35
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Central fixation involves the cones and photopic vision while fixating eccentrically involves rods and scotopic vision. The cones are more sensitive to yellow and red, but the rods are more sensitive to light of the blue and green wavelengths. The most sensitive wavelength for cones is 555nm (yellow-green). That is why the "optic yellow" tennis and golf balls are, in fact, easier to see under photopic conditions. The most sensitive wavelength for rods is 505nm (blue-green). Thus, blue-green lights will generally look brighter at night than red lights. The sensitivity of the eye changes from the red end of the visible spectrum toward the green end when shifting from the photopic(day) to scotopic (night)vision.

you just want a peep to transmit light through the aperture. so in low light hunting situations , the red peep should be just fine, in bright sunlight? , say your at a 3 d shoot and you standing in the sun and the target is in the shade, red is more visable in these conditions and may give you some unwanted distortion and cause you to focus on the peep and not on the target sub consiously. You dont want to see the peep, just look thru it as distortion free as possible and thats why matte black is the way to go.

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Old 02-21-2011, 07:11 PM   #36
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Compound Comedian,

In reply, I wasn't 100% sure whether it was the rods or cones that was sensitive to red, so I stand corrected on that one (I did ask...).

I have tried, just recently, this theory on red colouring, on one of the peeps I made and painted it red and I really didn't notice any difference. Personally, I prefer the flat black coloured ones.

Also..., painting the inside of a camera lens, binocular or refractor telescope black will help stop reflections and maintain contrast, but if you open up a camera lens, binocular or refractor telescope, along with it being painted black inside, and numerous lenses, you will find aperature or "contrast" rings, thin "donuts" of metal, that are placed across the light path, and in certain specific positions along the lens tube in an attempt to block errant light that may enter the tube at an angle, assisting to stop internal lens flare and help maintain contrast. The black flat paint can reflect light, it just does it poorly, the best substance in my experience to use to stop internal reflections within telescopes, etc is coloured velvet or velour cloth, but it gathers dust and takes up too much room within the telescope. Glued cloth can in time loosen and fall, whereas paint won't, thats why manufacturers don't use it.
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Last edited by Stormforce; 02-21-2011 at 07:32 PM.
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Old 02-21-2011, 07:33 PM   #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stormforce View Post
Actually, it's the opposite, Compound Comedian, a larger peep would help the eye to focus better, because a larger aperature would allow more light to reach the eye's lens and allow said light to act more efficiently upon the retina. You may be confusing it with the theory that a very small aperture may act as a lens by re-focusing or correctly aligning the light wavelengths as they pass through the aperture. I remember making pin hole film camera's in science class at school to demonstrate this effect. The size of the aperture will be totally dependent on how far the lens, or in this case, the peep, is from the eye and it's ability to allow sufficient light to properly act upon the lens of the eye and allow the lens to focus it correctly onto the retina. The biggest problem I see with most peeps is the edge definition of the aperture, or spherical aberration, this is an effect where the edges are blurry but the centre is clear and in focus. That is why I've made my own, my peeps allows for this effect and corrects it somewhat by the simple task of being thinner.

The size of an aperture is totally dependant on an individuals eye and it's lens characteristics, so a particular aperture may work for one, but may not work for another. It's up to the individual to decide what is best for himself through experimentation.

Not agreeing 1 way or the other with the red eye peep. My thing is keep it simple and shoot. I think sometimes we think to much about things (me for sure) and it hinders our shooting ability and it becomes more of a job than fun.

The one thing I will say for most ( I did say for most ) A smaller diameter peep will clear things up but in a low light situation it will hinder your visibility. You have to test this your self to see which size works best for you. I shoot a 3/32 for 3D and a 1/16 for indoor.
Good luck.
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Old 02-21-2011, 07:51 PM   #38
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in all honesty,I and this thread got a lil out of hand. Im sorry if i offended anyone.
i get frazzled too easily with over the top advertised claims by the makers of the sporting gear for the sport I love
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Old 02-21-2011, 08:03 PM   #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jame View Post
I think sometimes we think to much about things (me for sure) and it hinders our shooting ability and it becomes more of a job than fun.
...gotta agree with you on that point, I have a tendency to over-analyse things that may be one off, strange occurances, but it's all fun for me. I enjoy the engineering side of archery, making new things to see if they work or not, sometimes it's just re-inventing the same old wheel, so to speak. Some ideas work, some are dismal failures, but the learning curve is always educational and entertaining to me.

I think we are all in agreement that, whatever marketing ploy or claims manufacturers use for us to purchase their products, we have to ultimately decide as individuals, by trial and experimentation, what works, and what doesn't. Otherwise we'd never advance and become the best archer we strive to be. If it's some little piece of equipment that bolsters our confidence just that bit further to increase our shooting ability than before, I think it's worth the expence to at least try new things as they become available.

Healthy, heated debate is always a good thing, Compound comedian. No harm done and I learned something to boot. I'm glad I joined this forum.

Mick.
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Last edited by Stormforce; 02-21-2011 at 08:08 PM.
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Old 02-22-2011, 09:40 AM   #40
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Well, I hope you got your question answered kgoss, you should take 1485 up on his offer...he's a good guy and super cool to offer you one to try.

Science or not, if a person thinks it works, then it will and I believe they work. And yeah, I saw your lawsuit comment twice Comedian...I ain't gonna bite. They are still in business and sales are awesome. Check your facts brother

Good luck Kgoss and good shooting
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