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Old 01-12-2012, 06:01 AM   #1
alaz
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Default stabilizer question

thinking of going from bowhunter stabilizer to long target stab. Does a longer rod require less weight for stabilization?
What length is a good start length...and do people generally use heavier side rods than front stabilizers?
thanks.
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Old 01-12-2012, 06:16 AM   #2
wilkersonhunter
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first of all the longer stab is more a personal perferance than anything but there is a formula that is a general rule to balance a bow but all that is over my head. i have a carbon matrix and was told that this bow dont need much weight for it to balance well. so i bought a 30" carbon blade and a 8.5" side bar with my sight extended out to 6" it seemed that i had too much weight out front so i bought a 27" carbon blade and the bow balances a lot better but i think i am going to take one of the weights off the front bar and put it on my side bar and i think i will have it the way i want it. good luck it can be a process sometimes.
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Old 01-12-2012, 07:07 AM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alaz View Post
thinking of going from bowhunter stabilizer to long target stab. Does a longer rod require less weight for stabilization?
What length is a good start length...and do people generally use heavier side rods than front stabilizers?
thanks.
If you take a broom stick and extend it at arms length and try to rotate in a circle it takes alittle bit to get it moving, now cut it down to a foot long and try to spin it and it'll move fairly easy compair to the full length handle.

Same concept, you can use the same weight on a long bar and it will slow the movement of your bow better than a short bar. The back bar acts as a counter balance to the front bar so it doesn't feel like the bow wants to nose dive at the shot. General advise is two times the weight on the back bar compair to the front bar. So if you have 5 oz. on the front try 10 on the back. For me I like a little more weight on the back, I'm running 5 on the front and 12 on the back split between 2 back bars. All the rage right now is one back bar but I still like 2 because it helps me balance out the side to side.

Take a look at some stabilizer wed sites, B-stinger, Donker,ect.. they explain it way better than I ever could.

Bottom line is just like which bow to shoot you got to try em, adjust em, and retry em to find the right set up that fits you. Once you find it you'll know it, your bow will just sit and all you have to do is execute the shot.
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Old 01-12-2012, 10:19 AM   #4
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thanks for the info. I like the 2x the weight on the back and the idea of splitting them on 2 bars.
Any good v-bar brackets you would recommend?
The idea of trying out and finding balance can get costly...I needed a starting point.
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Old 01-12-2012, 12:11 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wilkersonhunter View Post
first of all the longer stab is more a personal perferance than anything but there is a formula that is a general rule to balance a bow but all that is over my head. i have a carbon matrix and was told that this bow dont need much weight for it to balance well. so i bought a 30" carbon blade and a 8.5" side bar with my sight extended out to 6" it seemed that i had too much weight out front so i bought a 27" carbon blade and the bow balances a lot better but i think i am going to take one of the weights off the front bar and put it on my side bar and i think i will have it the way i want it. good luck it can be a process sometimes.
The problem most people have is they are trying to do as you did and balance the bow....which is not the correct way to do things.

The purpose of a stabilizer set is to MAXIMIZE THE SHOOTERS ability to AIM.

Your correct that bow doesn't need much weight to balance....BUT it does need the weight and stab lengths applied correctly. Your findings or results were what they were because of how you had the bow setup. You simply had too much weight up front based on needs and the length of your side rod and the amount of weight on the side rod and it's position. You probably didn't have nearly enough weight on the side rod in relation to the length of the bars and the amount of weight on the front bar. If your bow was tipping forward or had too much front weight for you then the fix is to go with less weight up front and or to add weight to the side rod. Going with the shorter front bar simply fixed your equation and needs based on the length of the side bar and the weight you had on it. If you had kept the 30" bar and decreased the weight on it and added to the rear bar or gone with a longer bar on the rear you would have done the same thing as replacing the 30" bar.

A lot of people that aren't sure or are nervous about trying a longer side rod go short. If your using less then a 12" rear bar your going to need a TON of weight on it and a shorter front bar. This is one of the reasons that MOST B-Stinger and Doinker shooters shoot 12-15" side rods....and that doesn't vary based on the bow really.

The amount of weight needed and length of front bar for a given bow is based on the shooter...it has ZERO to do with the bow for the most part. I wouldn't recommend a 36" bar for most with a 35" bow but I had no issues and actually prefer it to the 33" bar I use now on my bow. I have 10 friends that all shoot the same bow (VE)...and same stabilizer. Not one of them has the same stabilizer setup. They are all good/great shooters....they all shoot 300 w/50Xs plus...they all shoot 540+ field scores. Even factoring in the ones with the same setups that don't shoot as good....they still have different stab lengths and weight configurations. They range from 30"-36" with 3-11 oz up front....side rods generally run from 10-25oz. That's all with the same bow...same cams....same everything but lbs and draw weight. Most of them though do shoot 60lbs or close to it.

These setups all balance fine and basically the same once they are matched up correctly based on the shooters need....but they all aim the way the shooter needs/wants. Not one of them set their bows up based on how the bow balanced static.

You set a bow up to hold still at full draw and it will balance static.....but it will be setup to the shooter not based on balance. The shorter the bar out front the more weight your usually gonna need. For example on the same bow....if I run a 27-28" bar I need around 10oz of weight....if I run a 30" bar I can use around 7-8oz....if I run a 33" bar I run 4-5oz....with a 36" bar I need 3-4oz. The side rod weight doesn't really change for me. It falls in the 15-18oz range with a 12" bar based on the angle and how tight I have it to the bow...if I go down to a 10" bar I need more weight on it around 20oz...maybe more. I have tried all of these setups...and the bow itself balances great with all of them. It tips the same at the shot....if I take a pin and put it through the top cut out in the riser under the limb pocket it sits the same for all of the different weight and length combinations. It also does the same when I put my 12" front bar on and set the side rod weight to what I need.

For the guys that I have talked to and helped setup their bars over the past 3 years....the vast majority can start with a 1-2 weight ratio (double on the back). After shooting they all discover for the most part that the ratio is nothing more then a starting point. Most end up closer to 1-4....unless they are someone that likes a lot of weight on the front bar then it's closer to 1-2 or 1-2.5-3. I started with 4oz and 8oz on the side...now for the most part I am running 3-4oz up front and 17-18oz up front. I'm not shooting that much now so I only have 16oz on the side bar...come time to go outside it will be back up to 18oz or so.

You will notice the weight faster and more when it is applied to the front rod then the back. Adding or taking one oz on the front is pretty much like doing the same with 2 oz on the rear.



As for side rod mounts....the vast majority only need one side bar. But you want something that is ADJUSTABLE....static mounts are simply a waste of time. You also want something that can handle the weight and that will not flex or wiggle and also that will not strip when making adjustments over time or that will fall apart when your bow is knocked over or the rod is banged. It is going to happen.... I haven't found a mount that fits ALL of these needs other then a B-Stinger Strong Arm. I have seen them all and shot them all...I had my bow knocked over on the side rod 7 times in a 3 week period....every time all the weight came down on the side rod. It never moved or broke.

I have friends that run a good amount of weight on their Doinkers and Fuse bars and their mounts aren't simply stiff enough....even the new ones. I have given them an extra mount of mine to try out and they all have switched.
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Old 01-12-2012, 03:15 PM   #6
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wow...
lots of great info.
thanks for the info on the mount as well.
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Old 01-13-2012, 05:28 PM   #7
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Not a problem man...glad I could help
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Old 01-13-2012, 09:32 PM   #8
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Hornet thanks for the info!! What is a good starting point for the angle of the side rod? Also what if you cant hold up a 8+ pound bow? How do you distribute the weights,say on a contender elite 3000 limbs with a 33" b-stinger and 12" side rod? I shoot alot and just cant get much over the 7 pound mark. I have a cbe quad lite and a simple spring steel rest. I also have the single b stinger side mount and quick disconnect.. Thanks for the help
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Old 01-14-2012, 06:38 AM   #9
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Great info as usual BH! I always enjoy reading your posts, always something new to learn.
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Old 01-14-2012, 08:33 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ledzeppelin View Post
Hornet thanks for the info!! What is a good starting point for the angle of the side rod? Also what if you cant hold up a 8+ pound bow? How do you distribute the weights,say on a contender elite 3000 limbs with a 33" b-stinger and 12" side rod? I shoot alot and just cant get much over the 7 pound mark. I have a cbe quad lite and a simple spring steel rest. I also have the single b stinger side mount and quick disconnect.. Thanks for the help
Simple. You distribute it the same way I do or anyone else does....you just use what you need...not the weight I need or someone else uses.

If you can only control or need 2/3 oz on the front...fine use it. Then stick 6 oz on the back and go from there.

You would be amazed what you can get used to....when I first starting shooting a B-Stinger I has never had more then 4-5 oz at the most on a side rod. Then with a BStinger rod I couldn't do much more then 6-8oz. Last summer I had 19-20 oz on a bar at one point. When setup the bow balances itself at full draw it won't actually feel as heavy as it does just sitting there.

You will also be amazed how fast you can get used to the extra weight when it is applied right.... But good solid form and shot execution is also a key to being able to take full advantage of this system.


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