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Old 02-17-2007, 07:09 PM   #1
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Default Beman arrows

Have any of you heard or seen the new Beman arrows with the new ViBrake vibration dampening insert?? Developed in conjunction with Sims Vibration Labs utilizing LimbSaver NAVCOM IV material. Supposed to have an insert that gives quicker arrow stabilization in flight for enhanced accuracy. Means quieter overall bow and arrow combinaiton. http://www.beman.com/

Sounds pretty cool but I wonder what the price is??? Any info on this Chris??
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Old 02-17-2007, 08:38 PM   #2
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Originally Posted by BowhuntnHoosier View Post
Have any of you heard or seen the new Beman arrows with the new ViBrake vibration dampening insert?? Developed in conjunction with Sims Vibration Labs utilizing LimbSaver NAVCOM IV material. Supposed to have an insert that gives quicker arrow stabilization in flight for enhanced accuracy. Means quieter overall bow and arrow combinaiton. http://www.beman.com/

Sounds pretty cool but I wonder what the price is??? Any info on this Chris??
ya i have a whole dozen of them they fly like a dream i like them alot they are around $79.00 for a dz. or about $6.50 an arrow
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Old 02-17-2007, 08:53 PM   #3
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ummm....

so lemme make sure I'm understanding you because I could be shooting wrong... but why would you be holding onto the arrow once you release it? I don't think the target cares if there is handshock
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Old 02-17-2007, 09:10 PM   #4
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ummm....

so lemme make sure I'm understanding you because I could be shooting wrong... but why would you be holding onto the arrow once you release it? I don't think the target cares if there is handshock
i think its more to get rid of any noise a arrow may make in flight.....
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Old 02-17-2007, 11:57 PM   #5
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A bust...

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Old 02-18-2007, 06:44 AM   #6
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i think its more to get rid of any noise a arrow may make in flight.....
Yep thats what I think too. A quieter arrow is a better arrow for hunting is it not??? Why yes it is. Oh crap there I go answering myself again.

Just thought I would inform everyone of them.
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Old 02-18-2007, 09:07 AM   #7
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Yep thats what I think too. A quieter arrow is a better arrow for hunting is it not??? Why yes it is. Oh crap there I go answering myself again.

Just thought I would inform everyone of them.
so basically your saying that the purpose of this isn't to just take more money from you but its to make the arrow fly quieter?

lets do some fun math (cause Math is cool!)

Lets assume that you are shooting at a deer that is standing broadside at 30 yards, it has no idea that you are there and you put a perfect shot on it. (ie: the perfect bow hunting scenario)

Now then the fun part:

The speed of sound is approx 761 mph

761 x 5280 = 4,018,080 fps

so how long will it take the sound of your release being triggered till the deer hears it?

30 yards = 90 feet

4,018,080 fps means that in .0000001 of a second (one millionth of a second) the sound will travel approximately 4 feet. so the sound of your release will reach the deer standing out at 90 feet in approx .0000022 of a second

the arrow will reach the deer much much slower. shooting at 300 FPS it will take approx 1/3 of a second (or .3 of a second) for the arrow to reach its target.

So what I can't understand is how making an arrow more quite will make any difference as the sound of your bow firing is heard by the deer long before your arrow even clears the string.
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Old 02-18-2007, 09:45 AM   #8
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so basically your saying that the purpose of this isn't to just take more money from you but its to make the arrow fly quieter?

lets do some fun math (cause Math is cool!)

Lets assume that you are shooting at a deer that is standing broadside at 30 yards, it has no idea that you are there and you put a perfect shot on it. (ie: the perfect bow hunting scenario)

Now then the fun part:

The speed of sound is approx 761 mph

761 x 5280 = 4,018,080 fps

so how long will it take the sound of your release being triggered till the deer hears it?

30 yards = 90 feet

4,018,080 fps means that in .0000001 of a second (one millionth of a second) the sound will travel approximately 4 feet. so the sound of your release will reach the deer standing out at 90 feet in approx .0000022 of a second

the arrow will reach the deer much much slower. shooting at 300 FPS it will take approx 1/3 of a second (or .3 of a second) for the arrow to reach its target.

So what I can't understand is how making an arrow more quite will make any difference as the sound of your bow firing is heard by the deer long before your arrow even clears the string.
bla bla bla bla bla what's wrong with making money? you went out of your way to make your point on this one.there not just to make your arrow quit, taking some of the vibration out of the arrow will tame some of that ARCHER'S PARADOX
Archer (är-ch&r ) noun - one who uses a bow and arrow
Par·a·dox (pr-dks) noun 1.A seemingly contradictory statement that may nonetheless be true: the paradox that standing is more tiring than walking.
2.One exhibiting inexplicable or contradictory aspects: “The silence of midnight, to speak truly, though apparently a paradox, rung in my ears” (Mary Shelley).
3.An assertion that is essentially self-contradictory, though based on a valid deduction from acceptable premises.
4.A statement contrary to received opinion.
[Latin paradoxum, from Greek paradoxon, from neuter singular of paradoxos, conflicting with expectation : para-, beyond; see para-1 + doxa, opinion (from dokein, to think.]

It is said for every action there is an equal and opposite reaction and it is certainly true in this case. The action is the bowstring sliding sideways and then forward towards the target. The reaction is the arrow flexing in direct proportion to the force. It bends in a balanced way to one side, and then bends the opposite way, and back, again and again, decreasing its oscillations slightly each cycle as it flies until it strikes the target. The shaft bends due to the inertial resistance of the shaft and the (heavier) tip as well as the sidethrust of the string coming off of the fingers, and the manner of the bend is consistently the same because the bowstring slips off of the fingertips in the same sideways direction each time. (Assuming the archer is consistent in her/his release technique!) The tail of the arrow gets pushed away from the bow at just the same time that the string is suddenly free to push the shaft towards the front of the bow. The tip of the arrow gets no sideways push, but since it has mass it resists the forward motion for an instant while the nock is moving forward, and the shaft BENDS as a result.
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Old 02-18-2007, 09:50 AM   #9
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It is said for every action there is an equal and opposite reaction and it is certainly true in this case. The action is the bowstring sliding sideways and then forward towards the target. The reaction is the arrow flexing in direct proportion to the force. It bends in a balanced way to one side, and then bends the opposite way, and back, again and again, decreasing its oscillations slightly each cycle as it flies until it strikes the target. The shaft bends due to the inertial resistance of the shaft and the (heavier) tip as well as the sidethrust of the string coming off of the fingers, and the manner of the bend is consistently the same because the bowstring slips off of the fingertips in the same sideways direction each time. (Assuming the archer is consistent in her/his release technique!) The tail of the arrow gets pushed away from the bow at just the same time that the string is suddenly free to push the shaft towards the front of the bow. The tip of the arrow gets no sideways push, but since it has mass it resists the forward motion for an instant while the nock is moving forward, and the shaft BENDS as a result.
so what you are basically saying is:

1. I don't know what Paradox means (which I do btw)

2. The whole purpose of these inserts is to make up for poorly spined arrows? Your example is also flawed as not many people shoot fingers any more, thus the string isn't rolled to the side like it used to be when shooting fingers.

Maybe I missed something in there but to me it sounds like these are basically designed to cost you more money with little to no return.
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Old 02-18-2007, 10:05 AM   #10
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so what you are basically saying is:

1. I don't know what Paradox means (which I do btw)

2. The whole purpose of these inserts is to make up for poorly spined arrows? Your example is also flawed as not many people shoot fingers any more, thus the string isn't rolled to the side like it used to be when shooting fingers.

Maybe I missed something in there but to me it sounds like these are basically designed to cost you more money with little to no return.
for once dredly is right in an argument.....
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Old 02-18-2007, 10:17 AM   #11
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for once dredly is right in an argument.....
it do's not matter if you shoot finger's or releases the paradox is alway's there FOR EVERY ACTION THERE IS AN EQUAL AND OPPISITE REACTION
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Old 02-18-2007, 10:22 AM   #12
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it do's not matter if you shoot finger's or releases the paradox is alway's there FOR EVERY ACTION THERE IS AN EQUAL AND OPPISITE REACTION
however it is so much less now then it used to be that its almost not a factor. I think your just trying to defend the money you spent on these things.
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Old 02-18-2007, 10:30 AM   #13
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however it is so much less now then it used to be that its almost not a factor. I think your just trying to defend the Money you spent on these things.
ok, you win. oh i get them dealer cost
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Old 02-18-2007, 10:37 AM   #14
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ok, you win. oh i get them dealer cost
more defending
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Old 02-18-2007, 10:47 AM   #15
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ok, you win. oh i get them dealer cost
are you going to change you name to reflect that you don't shoot 5575's anymore

No offense intended at all I just think its yet another "gimmick" type product. There are lots out there already and this just appears to be one of them.

you know things like the rifled nock that makes it spin faster? Same kind of thing
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Old 02-18-2007, 12:07 PM   #16
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Ok well........................I posted this to see how everyone felt about them and well now we know how a few people feel. How about the rest of you?? I personally think they will work great shot from my XT since its the only bow on the market which makes no sound when shot.
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Old 02-18-2007, 01:51 PM   #17
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Ok well........................I posted this to see how everyone felt about them and well now we know how a few people feel. How about the rest of you?? I personally think they will work great shot from my XT since its the only bow on the market which makes no sound when shot.
and out comes the towel slap.......
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Old 02-18-2007, 08:18 PM   #18
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it do's not matter if you shoot finger's or releases the paradox is alway's there FOR EVERY ACTION THERE IS AN EQUAL AND OPPISITE REACTION
That's not an archer's paradox...
It's Newton's first law...
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Old 02-18-2007, 08:37 PM   #19
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That's not an archer's paradox...
It's Newton's first law...
good point and from a welder no less
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Old 02-18-2007, 09:18 PM   #20
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good point and from a welder no less
What's that supposed to mean...Us welderers is less dumber than you think...
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Old 02-18-2007, 09:19 PM   #21
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What's that supposed to mean...Us welderers is less dumber than you think...
yup thats what I thought......
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Old 02-18-2007, 09:39 PM   #22
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hummm interesting stuff....... Ill bet that the fletch and the broadhead make alot more noise then the arrow vibrating from being shot.... we need to come up with some limbsaver vanes and tips man!!!! now that would sell, the silent stealth arrow componets.....
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Old 02-18-2007, 10:08 PM   #23
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That's not an archer's paradox...
It's Newton's first law...
did you not read my other post i now what archer's paradox is
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Old 02-19-2007, 05:20 PM   #24
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New posted by long time hunter and shooter and figured I'd give my 2 cents here.



This is pretty much a total gimmick for people that have to have the latest and greatest toy out there.

I have Beman's arrow guide in front of me and think this is a total gimmick. The noise an arrow makes in flight is from the arrow cutting through the air, and from the vanes, or feathers, and the not from vibration. The only vibration noise I've ever heard from an arrow was from a loose broadhead or practice point. Once I cranked it down that went away. A golf ball wobbles when you hit it and you can hear it pushing thru the air much like an arrow. I don't think I've ever heard the vibration noise of a golf ball.

The chart in Beman's guide is a Vibration VS Time chart. However, they do not give the units for Vibration (harmonic rate) or Time. Furthermore, if they wanted to have an effective chart it should be Noise (decibels) VS Time (seconds or even milliseconds) and actually list units on the vertical and horizontal axis. On top of that. Most of the noise I've ever heard from an arrow comes from the vanes or feathers, not from the arrow itself.

If anything, the purpose of the insert would be to decreasing harmonics (they call it vibration) on the arrow. The faster the arrow stabilizes the more accurate the arrow will be. The less the arrow vibrates the less wind will effect it. The amount of harmonics in a properly spined arrow with a release is almost minimal. Again, no units on chart. If you shoot fingers there may be some benefit to a product like this. But I highly doublt it. The only benefit might be if you whacked it off something metal on your bow. However, I'd be surprised if the reduction in noise is really that significant if the point is tight.

As for the accuracy you may gaineace. Modern bows are so accurate, I'll even throw in bows made 20 yrs ago, that adding a vibration dampener to the arrow means almost nothing. Spine the arrow properly and practice a lot and I'll bet that you will see no difference in accuracy between a carbon with and without the insert.
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Old 02-19-2007, 06:42 PM   #25
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I know I'm new here and maybe I missed something but I don't think the main purpose is to quiet the arrow. If you watch a video of an aluminum arrow shot into a target in slow motion, and a carbon shot into the same target the aluminum arrow supposedly vibrates more both in flight and durring the hit/penetration. Both arrows being correctly spined the carbons "straiten out" faster generaly speaking. The insert is supposed to dampen even more of this vibration allowing the arrow to straiten out even faster and to possably penetrate a bit deeper based on less wasted KE. I don't know if it's a needed item but I think that perhaps it's a bit more than gimmic. IMHO it would be nice if they fit "fat" arrows for target shooters. But in standard configuration I think it would be a nice add on for 3d shooters and or those going after tough game like elk, boar, or maybe african. Curiosity about bowfishing applications cross my mind as well. But anyway the main concept imho appears to be dampening arrow vibration during flight a bit faster.
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