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Old 06-22-2007, 07:45 PM   #1
Dredly
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Default Right misses w/ moving scope?

So I've been playing with my Mathews a bit and the further I move the scope out the further right I hit... any ideas?
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Old 06-22-2007, 07:49 PM   #2
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So I've been playing with my Mathews a bit and the further I move the scope out the further right I hit... any ideas?
of course, this happens to me when i forget to move my sight out...I will always hit to the left.....move it to the end and bada bing I am in like flyn

you need to pick a spot and mark it....always shoot it at that spot.....
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Old 06-22-2007, 09:17 PM   #3
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so you're saying this is supposed to happen and just to move my scope?
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Old 06-22-2007, 09:21 PM   #4
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Wouldnt different scope positions result in different POI?

Makes sense to me.
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Old 06-22-2007, 09:21 PM   #5
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so you're saying this is supposed to happen and just to move my scope?
yup it has to do w/some technical phisics stuff, that I dont remember the names of our how too spell them.....
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Old 06-22-2007, 09:22 PM   #6
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Wouldnt different scope positions result in different POI?

Makes sense to me.
yup and there is a term or reason for it...i just cant remember what it is......
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Old 06-22-2007, 09:26 PM   #7
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Nor can you spell PHYSICS
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Old 06-22-2007, 09:31 PM   #8
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Nor can you spell PHYSICS
our must stuf........(or most stuff)
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Old 06-22-2007, 10:01 PM   #9
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OK, Let's get this right. You move the scope out further from the bow, by sliding the sight bar out, and you hit to the right?
Either your sight bar is bent, your mount is no properly aligned, or you have some torquing going on. You can take your bow to someone with the right sets of level to shim the sight mount. Also, take everything off your bar and lay it on a FLAT surface, and see if it is slightly bowed. Then turn the bar over and do check it again.
The torque is your problem, and a likely culprit.
Also, You may want to paper tune again.
If it shoots good, on line, with the front sight a certain distance from the bow, use that distance and enjoy. That would be the easiest fix. We all want to play with things, but that can be a bad idea sometimes.
If it ain't broke, don't fix it.

Last edited by Sniper; 06-22-2007 at 10:18 PM.
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Old 06-23-2007, 07:50 PM   #10
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OK, Let's get this right. You move the scope out further from the bow, by sliding the sight bar out, and you hit to the right?
Either your sight bar is bent, your mount is no properly aligned, or you have some torquing going on. You can take your bow to someone with the right sets of level to shim the sight mount. Also, take everything off your bar and lay it on a FLAT surface, and see if it is slightly bowed. Then turn the bar over and do check it again.
The torque is your problem, and a likely culprit.
Also, You may want to paper tune again.
If it shoots good, on line, with the front sight a certain distance from the bow, use that distance and enjoy. That would be the easiest fix. We all want to play with things, but that can be a bad idea sometimes.
If it ain't broke, don't fix it.
My bar isn't bent. If I move the sight out further the sight picture gets clearer so I'd like to shoot it out further. The more I move it in the more my sight moves back to where I want it. I've got it shot in with the scope out about 1/2 way so its dead accurate there.
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Old 06-23-2007, 08:00 PM   #11
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My bar isn't bent. If I move the sight out further the sight picture gets clearer so I'd like to shoot it out further. The more I move it in the more my sight moves back to where I want it. I've got it shot in with the scope out about 1/2 way so its dead accurate there.
you need to shoot abunch of groups w/the sight set at different distances from the bar....

then decide where you get the best groups andthen sight it in for that spot....
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Old 06-23-2007, 08:06 PM   #12
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you need to shoot abunch of groups w/the sight set at different distances from the bar....

then decide where you get the best groups andthen sight it in for that spot....
yup. I thought the vert would change but didn't figure L/R would... ehh well I'll play with it some more
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Old 06-23-2007, 08:07 PM   #13
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yup. I thought the vert would change but didn't figure L/R would... ehh well I'll play with it some more
thats the fun of it......
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Old 06-24-2007, 07:49 AM   #14
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Sounds like torque on the grip is twisting the bow. The geometry makes perfect sense as the cause of the problem described. Slide the bar to where you are most pleased with your view, rezero, and use that distance on the slide consistently. I hope you have enough horizontal travel to adjust.
If you come to Limerick next week let me know how it worked.
You're probobly at Bucks Co. with Jay Are right now. Hope you enjoyed the shoot. Beautiful day for it.
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Old 06-24-2007, 12:39 PM   #15
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Sounds like torque on the grip is twisting the bow. The geometry makes perfect sense as the cause of the problem described. Slide the bar to where you are most pleased with your view, rezero, and use that distance on the slide consistently. I hope you have enough horizontal travel to adjust.
If you come to Limerick next week let me know how it worked.
You're probobly at Bucks Co. with Jay Are right now. Hope you enjoyed the shoot. Beautiful day for it.
Yup just got home a few minutes ago. was an okay shoot. nice targets, nice terrain, got lost a few times which sucked but all in all a good day.

I think I'm going to try to bring the Mathews along next week to Limerick... we'll see how it works
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Old 06-24-2007, 02:04 PM   #16
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Try zeroing it at the best distance for you and mark it. It should work. the ditance between yardages will increase slightly by going with a longer sight radius, but mark what you can at home, and you can go to 60 yards on our practice range next Sunday. If you need it, we'll even put a couple targets at 70 and 80 for you, I'm sure. Shooting with our Field Captain does have advantages. He was splitting arrows at sunset last night to get ready to shoot with you.
After shooting Limerick, you're gonna be spoiled for anywhere else, and it's gonna get better.

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Old 06-24-2007, 02:24 PM   #17
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When you draw a bow with a cable guard, there are forces caused by the cable guard that twist the riser. If you have a long stabilizer, it will point different directions when at rest and when at full draw. Your sight does the same thing. The further out it is, the more to the right or left it will be moved when the riser twists. This is different than hand torque....
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Old 06-24-2007, 02:29 PM   #18
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Hand torque or Cable Guard twist? I would have thought it was about the same cause and result. The Parallel Limb bows have a shorter slide travel, so less twist, I'm sure. What about roller equiped bows.
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Old 06-24-2007, 02:57 PM   #19
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Hand torque or Cable Guard twist? I would have thought it was about the same cause and result. The Parallel Limb bows have a shorter slide travel, so less twist, I'm sure. What about roller equiped bows.
Big difference is riser twist is consistent, hand torque isn't. If he is shooting nice groups that are just to one side or the other, then it is a riser twist thing. I believe he is shooting an Ovation and at 41" A2A there is a significant amount of riser twist. It would definitely show up with an 8 or 9 inch sight bar.

I don't have scientific knowledge, but I would imagine the regular cable guard and the roller exert the same side forces on the riser. The roller just eliminates cable friction and increases efficiency....

I also think if you threw a 30" stabilizer on a short parallel limbed bow, and paid attention to the stabilizer angle at rest and full draw, that you would be surprised at what you saw.....
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Old 06-24-2007, 03:18 PM   #20
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Seems to me that a slide traveling on a cable guard will put pressure on the side of the cable guard side of the bow, and the longer the travel the closer the slide will come to center at full draw. this will turn the bow to the outside. With a roller there is no slide travel on a bar, and the rollers are angled inward close to center. That, theoretically, would almost eliminate that effect, theoretically. With a old Hoyt Raptor I got, you don't need a long stab to see it. The arrow on the rest is angled left to compensate what will happen to the riser at full draw. The technology is moving fast on these kind of issues. Some people have put a lot of engineering expertise into these problems the last 4-5 years. Look at the radical changes in bows. Who would have thought it 10 years ago, let alone 25.
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Old 06-24-2007, 04:21 PM   #21
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All cables are pulled to one side or the other of the arrow. Most of the energy at full draw is held in the cables. Those cables are gonna try to pull back to the center of the riser. This force is there regardless of whether the slide moves .25" or 3". The slide is going to move away from the riser as the limb tips are pulled backwards. On parallel limbed bows, the slide is already a distance from the riser due to the larger brace height on these bows. When the cable guard starts receiving its load, it is going to twist the riser inward in the back. On a right handed bow, your stabilizer and sight bar are going to move to the right.

Hand torque is not causing dreds misses. It is the riser twist.
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Old 06-24-2007, 04:24 PM   #22
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Seems the longer the travel, the more leverage would be exerted. Less travel, less leverage, less twist.
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Old 06-24-2007, 04:38 PM   #23
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Seems the longer the travel, the more leverage would be exerted. Less travel, less leverage, less twist.
I agree. The further away from the riser the cable slide moves the worse the twist. On a parallel limbed bow, the slide is already slid way back due to the brace height. It doesn't move much on draw, because it is already back there.
On a non parralell limbed bow, the slide moves further and slides back to where the parallel limbed bow already is.

All bows have their own characteristics. All twist differently, some worse than others. But, unless you ditch the cable guard completely, you are gonna have a degree of twist. Dredly's bow shoots to the left consistently when he extends the sight. Sounds like riser twist to me.
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Old 06-24-2007, 05:05 PM   #24
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Whatever we call it, it's nice to know a Dogface and a Jarhead can agree on something.
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Old 06-24-2007, 05:06 PM   #25
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LOL...... Yaaaarrrrr! Semper Fi!!!!!!
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Old 06-24-2007, 05:27 PM   #26
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wow some of us could take lessons from you two on how to argue nicely, w/out name calling......
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Old 06-24-2007, 07:28 PM   #27
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Have you adjusted the 3rd axis bit as well?? I know that makes some difference too. Of course the farther out you move the sight the more chance to see problems as well.
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Old 06-24-2007, 09:41 PM   #28
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wow some of us could take lessons from you two on how to argue nicely, w/out name calling......
That's because if we fight, it's to the Death with knives!
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