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Old 07-31-2007, 04:22 PM   #1
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Default A Brief Observation

looking at many of the used bows here, and on AT I have come to notice something...


There are Lots! of bows for sale from Hoyte, Mathews and Archery research

But none from Martin or Fred Bear?

Why is this? is it because people love their bows and dont want to sell them?
is it possible that they are just plain better????

Yes This is a troll post. But gotta poke the giants every now and then

Kyle,
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Old 07-31-2007, 04:54 PM   #2
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Actually there are lots sold but the majority of people who have purchased Fred Bear (NAAG) either don't sell them because they aren't worth anything (anything more then 2 years old) or don't want to upgrade yet (the last 2 years).

As for Martin, there are lots for sale but they aren't selling as many as they used to so less out means less up for sale. Hoyt, Bowtech and Mathews have a pretty well off fan bass who flip bows pretty regularly. Martin shooters tend to be more loyal.
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Old 07-31-2007, 04:57 PM   #3
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I just seen a few Martin or Fred Bear on AT this morning. I got a martin off there dirt cheap.
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Old 07-31-2007, 05:24 PM   #4
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Any advice for someone who would like to get into trading and selling bows?

I have been succesful in this area in ham radio. But archery is nothing like that. Way different people... nicer though!
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Old 07-31-2007, 05:37 PM   #5
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Actually there are lots sold but the majority of people who have purchased Fred Bear (NAAG) either don't sell them because they aren't worth anything (anything more then 2 years old) or don't want to upgrade yet (the last 2 years).

As for Martin, there are lots for sale but they aren't selling as many as they used to so less out means less up for sale. Hoyt, Bowtech and Mathews have a pretty well off fan bass who flip bows pretty regularly. Martin shooters tend to be more loyal.
Martin's sales are up around 20% this year.....
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Old 07-31-2007, 05:56 PM   #6
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Part of it, not all of it, is due to the fact that people are trying archery and not spending a ton of money on initial equipment investment and just not following through with the sport and likely giving stuff away and/or selling stuff in garage sales or letting it weather gracefully in the basement, attic/crawl space or garage.

When you spend more on a hobby you tend to view that there is value in what you have invested.

Take guitar playing for example (I also indulge in that). If you buy a Fender Stratocaster knock-off at Sam's Club for $200 you don't view that as being an 'investment'. So if you give up the hobby it's not a big deal to give the insrument away or possibly even throw it out. If you buy a Gibson Les Paul for $2000 and up, you typically don't want to just walk away from it. You try and get some dollars back out of it if you give up the hobby since you view it as an 'investment'.

Of course it's all relative but that is a typical consumer trait that has been well documented.

That's one of the reasons that I try and bring people into the sport and encourage them to get decent equipment and especially good advice from people who know the sport and can work with a new archer to eliminate things that might want them to give up. It's not easy for sure but we need more people involved.

In saying those things I am not in the X ring but I believe I'm pretty close.

Ron

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Old 07-31-2007, 06:53 PM   #7
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Originally Posted by VE6WTF View Post
looking at many of the used bows here, and on AT I have come to notice something...


There are Lots! of bows for sale from Hoyte, Mathews and Archery research

But none from Martin or Fred Bear?

Why is this? is it because people love their bows and dont want to sell them?
is it possible that they are just plain better????

Yes This is a troll post. But gotta poke the giants every now and then

Kyle,
I will agree with what the others say......

the biggest thing for me is resale.....I know I dont keep a bow a long time anymore......so I buy bows that will resell quickly, and that there is a high demand for.....

there is NOT a high demand for MARTIN or FRED BEAR.....because they are not in enough PRO SHOPS.......

in the past, both MARTIN and FRED BEAR have had less than a great following because of there desicion to sell in places like DICKS and Gander MOUNTAIN......when you sell your stuff in places like this and the person behind the counter, who knows nothing about bows, sets up your bow wrong and something bad happens, you think well it must be crappy equipment.....

This I feel has been the down fall of MARTIN......

FRED BEAR on the other hand has been passed around more than a doobie at a GREATFUL DEAD concert......

really crappy marketing is the down fall of this company.....that and the fact that noone knows how stable it is....
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Old 07-31-2007, 07:18 PM   #8
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I will agree with what the others say......

the biggest thing for me is resale.....I know I dont keep a bow a long time anymore......so I buy bows that will resell quickly, and that there is a high demand for.....

there is NOT a high demand for MARTIN or FRED BEAR.....because they are not in enough PRO SHOPS.......

in the past, both MARTIN and FRED BEAR have had less than a great following because of there desicion to sell in places like DICKS and Gander MOUNTAIN......when you sell your stuff in places like this and the person behind the counter, who knows nothing about bows, sets up your bow wrong and something bad happens, you think well it must be crappy equipment.....

This I feel has been the down fall of MARTIN......

FRED BEAR on the other hand has been passed around more than a doobie at a GREATFUL DEAD concert......

really crappy marketing is the down fall of this company.....that and the fact that noone knows how stable it is....
Yes, that's another part of the issue. Marketing and support and all of the other merchandising things that need to happen to support a retail offering.

The GD doobie thing is not likely an issue in this discussion though...

Ron
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Old 07-31-2007, 07:23 PM   #9
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Yes, that's another part of the issue. Marketing and support and all of the other merchandising things that need to happen to support a retail offering.

The GD doobie thing is not likely an issue in this discussion though...

Ron
I was using an analogy.......sorry....
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Old 07-31-2007, 07:27 PM   #10
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FRED BEAR on the other hand has been passed around more than a doobie at a GREATFUL DEAD concert......

really crappy marketing is the down fall of this company.....that and the fact that noone knows how stable it is....
Fred Bear has also made horrible bows for the last decade. They are finally getting much better though... good thing too because the company wasn't doing well.

Martin's sales are up this year, how were they in "resaleable" equipment last year and the one before? They are up now because of the new low end bows and their new Pro bows. They have a solid product now and they will start appearing the classified soon
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Old 07-31-2007, 07:30 PM   #11
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Unless you have a fist full of cash to spend and wait out the sell then you should stick to radios. I use to sell guns like that. I made a killing but I only sold on the up and up. I just know what people were looking for and where to get it. So it is knowing what to buy when to buy it. Then waiting for the sell. I just picked up a Bowtech pro 40 2005 for 200 and working on a mathews for around 125. I can turn both of these. But the mathews I can turn fast for 250 to 300 because the short draw and lower poundage. So you see it is knowing what when and how.
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Old 07-31-2007, 07:44 PM   #12
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Unless you have a fist full of cash to spend and wait out the sell then you should stick to radios. I use to sell guns like that. I made a killing but I only sold on the up and up. I just know what people were looking for and where to get it. So it is knowing what to buy when to buy it. Then waiting for the sell. I just picked up a Bowtech pro 40 2005 for 200 and working on a mathews for around 125. I can turn both of these. But the mathews I can turn fast for 250 to 300 because the short draw and lower poundage. So you see it is knowing what when and how.
And getting lucky helps quite a bit too. Often times its just sitting on the forums and refreshing often enough until that one guys sells his whole bow w/ everything for 350. Grab it, part it out and make 100 - 200 off it but its a huge gamble for the most part and the profit is going to be pretty limited for the amount you pay.

Oh, being able to adjust stuff on the bow is a must as well. People want their bows ready to shoot when they get them without having to search for other cams or take it to a proshop
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Old 07-31-2007, 08:30 PM   #13
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I was using an analogy.......sorry....
Don't be sorry....
I was probably being too serious.

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Old 07-31-2007, 08:32 PM   #14
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Oh, and where is that post on mosquito repellent ?
Hell, I'm getting chewed...

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Old 07-31-2007, 08:39 PM   #15
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Oh, and where is that post on mosquito repellent ?
Hell, I'm getting chewed...

Ron
Its called ThermaCell and it is great. Or you can use Avon skin-so-soft.
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Old 07-31-2007, 08:42 PM   #16
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Its called ThermaCell and it is great. Or you can use Avon skin-so-soft.
BUT IF YOU DO....just burn your man card.....you will never earn it back.....
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Old 07-31-2007, 08:54 PM   #17
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... Martin's sales are up this year, how were they in "resaleable" equipment last year and the one before? They are up now because of the new low end bows and their new Pro bows. They have a solid product now and they will start appearing the classified soon
I'm actually thinking of getting a Martin soon................TO POOP ON! (You have to watch Conan O'Brien to get this)

But seriously... I think you see more Mathews and Hoyts out there becasue there is just more out there. Even though there sales are up 20%, how much of that 20% equals the total market? That 20% increase may only be 1% increase of the total market.

You could have the best bow out there and the best ads out there, but if your local proshop is not pushing the bow, your sales will stay static. (i.e My local pro-shop has to order a Martin if I want to shoot one)
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Old 07-31-2007, 09:08 PM   #18
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I'm actually thinking of getting a Martin soon................TO POOP ON! (You have to watch Conan O'Brien to get this)

But seriously... I think you see more Mathews and Hoyts out there becasue there is just more out there. Even though there sales are up 20%, how much of that 20% equals the total market? That 20% increase may only be 1% increase of the total market.

You could have the best bow out there and the best ads out there, but if your local proshop is not pushing the bow, your sales will stay static. (i.e My local pro-shop has to order a Martin if I want to shoot one)
yup what he said....and its because they dont sell......and they dont sell because they are not stocked.....and they are not stocked , because they dont sell.....and so on and so on.....
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Old 07-31-2007, 10:10 PM   #19
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yup what he said....and its because they dont sell......and they dont sell because they are not stocked.....and they are not stocked , because they dont sell.....and so on and so on.....
and they aren't stocked because anyone can be a martin dealer and noone stocks them because they can remain a martin dealer by selling 500.00 a year of "martin" accessories and they can sell bows that pay good commissions and push people into more expensive bows that pay well
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Old 07-31-2007, 10:21 PM   #20
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and they aren't stocked because anyone can be a martin dealer and noone stocks them because they can remain a martin dealer by selling 500.00 a year of "martin" accessories and they can sell bows that pay good commissions and push people into more expensive bows that pay well
kinda like a revolving door........
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Old 08-01-2007, 08:36 AM   #21
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Its called ThermaCell and it is great. Or you can use Avon skin-so-soft.
I'll stick with the Thermacell... I don't know anyone who sells Avon anyway (and I had better not...)...

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Old 08-01-2007, 08:45 AM   #22
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I'll stick with the Thermacell... I don't know anyone who sells Avon anyway (and I had better not...)...

Ron
oh crap ......MARIE does.....so if anyone wants to trade man cards for skin-so-soft, PM me for my address....
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Old 08-01-2007, 08:47 AM   #23
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oh crap ......MARIE does.....so if anyone wants to trade man cards for skin-so-soft, PM me for my address....


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Old 08-01-2007, 09:14 AM   #24
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Fortunately for some companies, they have such a good marketing plan, that they do not have to maintain a high level of quality to keep their large market shares.

It amazes me that a company A can market their new limb as the "toughest" limb ever, and when they start snappin in half left and right, no one cares..... Now that is mega-marketing..... Not to mention putting plastic bushnigs in their cams.......and charging more for thier bows.... Thank God for blind devotion...

I think I entered the archery scene at a time when Martin is moving back to the top. I know they used to be THE bow company of choice and I don't know what happened to them. I do know that some of the others are living on reputation alone and letting quality slip. Maybe that is what happened to Martin in the past. I know they aren't doing that now.

I had to drive an hour to my nearest Martin "dealer". They didn't even have a Martin decal no the door, nor a single bow in the shop. Most of them are there to make money. They push what makes them the most money. I can't blame them for that, but just because the walls are covered with Company A and Company B, doesn't mean they make the greatest bow on earth....

As far as selling in box stores. Reflex and Diamond are sold in box stores. There is a Mathews dealer at my local MC Sports which is a box store. Maybe Martin should just rename their lower end bows that sell in box stores to be like Hoyt and Bowtech. Or maybe they aren't ashamed of the fact that they sell a reasonably price bow to people that don't have a pro shop around.
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Old 08-01-2007, 09:22 AM   #25
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Fortunately for some companies, they have such a good marketing plan, that they do not have to maintain a high level of quality to keep their large market shares...
Thank goodness for the Martin girl!
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Old 08-01-2007, 09:32 AM   #26
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Thank goodness for the Martin girl!
Without her, you wouldn't have anything bad to say about Martin.....


If you like looking at ugly bearded guys shooting bows then that is your own business.....
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Old 08-01-2007, 09:37 AM   #27
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Without her, you wouldn't have anything bad to say about Martin.....


If you like looking at ugly bearded guys shooting bows then that is your own business.....
Of course... Martin has the best bows out there, w/out a doubt!
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Old 08-01-2007, 09:41 AM   #28
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Of course... Martin has the best bows out there, w/out a doubt!
Never said they were the best. Just gettin better.....
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Old 08-01-2007, 09:49 AM   #29
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Never said they were the best. Just gettin better.....

So they have a crappy bows now and it's getting better... but if it wasn't for the Martin Girl we would have nothing bad to say about them. MMMMMMMMMmmmmmmmmmmmm: think about that?

I'm only busting your chops!
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Old 08-01-2007, 09:53 AM   #30
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JC if you dont mind I would like to save all these posts to a file on my computer.....so that when the next big thing comes along and you jump on that ship.....we can remind you of this......

I can remember a time when you used to say the same thing about MATHEWS......

I can respect your love of Martin, but what is wrong w/different brands being in the same house......

MY problems w/Hoyt, Bowtech....have more to do w/the dealer than the actual companies.....and infact have nothing against the product them selves....

that being said......I still think the Guardian and Commander may be the ugliest bows on the market.......but I think HUMMERS (the vehicle) are ugly also......NO OFFENCE.....

Its all whats appealing to a person at the time.....right now, FORD has one of the quietest Deisels available......but I wont buy one because the cosmetics dont appeal to me.....

now if you could put that engine in a Dodge, I would buy one in a HEARTBEAT... .......I like the look of the dodge......

oh and the new chevy??? Man I thought that was supposed to be a MANS truck.....
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Old 08-01-2007, 09:58 AM   #31
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So they have a crappy bows now and it's getting better... but if it wasn't for the Martin Girl we would have nothing bad to say about them. MMMMMMMMMmmmmmmmmmmmm: think about that?
I'm only busting your chops!
Didn't say they were crappy now either..... You like to put words in people's mouths don't you??

Have you shot a Scepter IV, Pantera, or Slayer???? If not then what are you basing your non-sense on?
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Old 08-01-2007, 10:03 AM   #32
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JC if you dont mind I would like to save all these posts to a file on my computer.....so that when the next big thing comes along and you jump on that ship.....we can remind you of this

I can remember a time when you used to say the same thing about MATHEWS......

I can respect your love of Martin, but what is wrong w/different brands being in the same house......

MY problems w/Hoyt, Bowtech....have more to do w/the dealer than the actual companies.....and infact have nothing against the product them selves....

that being said......I still think the Guardian and Commander may be the ugliest bows on the market.......but I think HUMMERS (the vehicle) are ugly also......NO OFFENCE.....

Its all whats appealing to a person at the time.....right now, FORD has one of the quietest Deisels available......but I wont buy one because the cosmetics dont appeal to me.....

now if you could put that engine in a Dodge, I would buy one in a HEARTBEAT... .......I like the look of the dodge......

oh and the new chevy??? Man I thought that was supposed to be a MANS truck.....

Save away my friend. I didn't realize Martin was "the next big thing"....

I used to say the same thing about Mathews. Their marketing works.....for a while....

I really don't care what anyone shoots, if you like it shoot it, but I don't care for derogitory comments based on opinions passed off as facts...
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Old 08-01-2007, 10:05 AM   #33
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Save away my friend. I didn't realize Martin was "the next big thing"....

I used to say the same thing about Mathews. Their marketing works.....for a while....

I really don't care what anyone shoots, if you like it shoot it, but I don't care for derogitory comments based on opinions passed off as facts...
ummmm not following....remember I am slow...this has been stated plenty of times......
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Old 08-01-2007, 10:07 AM   #34
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Originally Posted by jcmorgan31 View Post
Didn't say they were crappy now either..... You like to put words in people's mouths don't you??

Have you shot a Scepter IV, Pantera, or Slayer???? If not then what are you basing your non-sense on?

Never bashed... I truly have nothing bad to say about Martin and never did... the "Crappy" was a joke. get your pannies out of a bunch and lighten up

I don't need to shoot any other Bow as I am happy with what I have.
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Old 08-01-2007, 10:12 AM   #35
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I don't think I directed anything at you did I??
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Old 08-01-2007, 10:12 AM   #36
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Originally Posted by Jay Are View Post
Never bashed... I truly have nothing bad to say about Martin and never did... the "Crappy" was a joke. get your pannies out of a bunch and lighten up

I don't need to shoot any other Bow as I am happy with what I have.
Dude, I had smilies in my post too. When my panties are in a bunch I use this one....
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Old 08-01-2007, 10:25 AM   #37
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Originally Posted by jcmorgan31 View Post
Dude, I had smilies in my post too. When my panties are in a bunch I use this one....
so they wearnt in a bunch before but now they are???




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Last edited by BUNNYMAN; 08-01-2007 at 10:32 AM.
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Old 08-01-2007, 10:29 AM   #38
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so they wearnt in a buch before but now they are???




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No they are fine...that was just an example....
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Old 08-01-2007, 10:37 AM   #39
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Originally Posted by jcmorgan31 View Post
No they are fine...that was just an example....

I just didn't have time to respond... getting tired of work interfering with the important things i have going on here!


It was just making a statment...

Time for a group hug, This is Bowmans favorite part:
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Old 08-01-2007, 10:38 AM   #40
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I just didn't have time to respond... getting tired of work interfering with the important things i have going on here!


It was just making a statment...

Time for a group hug, This is Bowmans favorite part:
STAY AWAY FROM ME.........
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