Brace height

Discussion in 'General Archery Forum' started by Rich, Jan 26, 2008.

  1. Rich

    Rich New Member

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    I'm in the market to purchase a new bow. After a lot of research, I've narrowed down my new purchase to two bows. The Bowtech 82nd Airbourne and the Bowtech General. The 82nd shoots 340 fps with a brace height of approx. 6.2". The General shoots 300fps with a brace height of approx. 8.3".
    I don't have the exact specs. with me, so these are close approximations. My initial approach to the new bow was to take some of the guess work out of estimating distances by shooting a bow fast enough that little adjustment would be needed between 20 and 30 yard shots. I know the difference in brace height between the bows adds a measure of forgiveness with the shot. I shoot well, but really don't get all that much time to practice throughout the year, so a little forgiveness won't hurt. This is a trade off that's tearing me apart between these two bows. I guess my big question is how much forgiveness will the added two inches of brace height give me and is a bow with a smaller brace height that much more difficult to get proficient with. thanks -
     
  2. MoSkeeter0311

    MoSkeeter0311 New Member

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    First of all welcome to the forum.:welcome: :welcome: :welcome:

    As for as your question. If you're looking at the bowtech lines, look at the guardian. It is in the middle of the two that you mentioned.

    82 airborne..............6 1/8 brace, 334-340 IBO, 36 1/2 ATA
    Guardian..................7 1/8..........317-325........33 3/4
    General....................8 1/4..........307-315........31 3/16

    This way you have the best of both worlds. I personally have the Guardian and I love it. Good luck on you decision and keep posting and asking questions. Lot of good people here.
    Also, what is your DL. I have T-Rex arms and therefore Shoot a small. Dl (27.5). The shorter brace heights work better for me on the speed portion. But that's my own opinion. I can use that extra time on the string. I may be wrong and some of the more knowledgable people on here can correct that if necessary
     
    Last edited: Jan 26, 2008

  3. Rich

    Rich New Member

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    Thanks for the response. I'll look into the Guardian. My draw is 29". Do you think that could have a bearing on which of the three bows mentioned will fit me best. Rich
     
  4. MoSkeeter0311

    MoSkeeter0311 New Member

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    I have only shot the General and the 82nd with the smooth modules as opposed to the speed mods. I thought they felt smoother than my Guardian with the speed mods. But I have found (and heard) that the lower brace heights require better form and aren't as forgiving. I only hunt and will admit that in the tree stands my form isn't at it's best In my case, speed isn't as important as shot placement. In your case (depending on poundage your using) I would still say look at the Guardian. Naturally if your your shooting 50 vs 70lbs your trajectory will change. But DON"T get hooked up in the poundage game. Shoot what is the most comfortable to you. As you say, you don't shoot a whole lot thru the year and a lighter LBS will help your accuracy and not tear up your shoulder. If speed isn't your main factor IMO I would stay with a 7" brace or higher. (it might even save a little skin on your arm when your form is off a little) Shoot all 3 in your correct draw weight and Draw length and it will pick you out. Good luck and have fun. Practise is more important than draw weight or arrow speed.:rockon:
     
  5. MeanV2

    MeanV2 Senior Member

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    What's your Draw length. That will also make a difference as to how a shorter brace height will affect you. Don't forget to check out the Airborne 101. It has an IBO of 340 fps and a brace ht. of 7 1/4":cool:

    Dan
     
    Last edited: Jan 26, 2008
  6. MoSkeeter0311

    MoSkeeter0311 New Member

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    OOOPs, forgot about the 101st..

    7 1/4 brace. 36 1/4 ATA, 320-328 smooth mods, 332-340 speed mods.

    As a little shot:censored: , I forget about the longer ata's, Sorry.
     
  7. QSA

    QSA One eyed/Gutless wonder

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    Well I can say this, take from it what you want. My second bow was a Mathews Z Max with a over draw. That equaled to almost no brace height. So starting out with that bow was not that hard. Same with my oldest girl she had a mini G force. Speed bow and done very well with it.
    So for hunting I think a short brace height would be ok. But for 3D and spots you need every thing you can get in brace height. But one thing most keep over looking is in 3D tour. speed has a limit.
     
  8. MoSkeeter0311

    MoSkeeter0311 New Member

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    Got me confused. I'm not familiar with the Mathews Z Max and I don't know what the brace is on it. But how would an overdraw change the brace. I thought all an overdraw did was move the rest back father so as to allow for a shorter arrow shaft, when spined correctly allowed for a lighter, faster arrow. But the distance from the riser to the string shouldn't have changed and the arrow would remain on the string the same amount of time. :noidea: :noidea: :noidea:
     
  9. goldflinger

    goldflinger Senior Member

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    I think we need a definition of brase height, just for arguments sake.
     
  10. bullfiddle

    bullfiddle Movin on up!!!

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    The farthest distance from the bow handle to the string with the bow in the relaxed position?...:noidea:
     
  11. MoSkeeter0311

    MoSkeeter0311 New Member

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    Copied from "Hunter's Friend"
    Brace Height

    Brace height is yet another important factor in the energy storage equation. A bow's brace height is simply the distance from the string to the pivot point of the bow's grip. You can kind-of think of brace height as how close the string will be to your wrist when the bow is at rest. The closer the string is to your wrist, the more work you have to do to get the bow drawn back. If you're drawing a 6" brace height bow back to a 30" AMO draw length, you'll have to pull the string back a total distance of 22.25" before you reach full draw*. But if the string rests farther back from your wrist to start, say the bow's brace height is 8", then you'll only have to pull the string back for 20.25". So the bow's brace height also figures into how LONG the bow's powerstroke will be. And as you know, a longer powerstroke generates more energy.

    As a matter of energy storage, brace heights are analogous to the length of the rubber-band on a slingshot. If you hold a slingshot at arms-length and pull it back to your cheek, a shorter rubber-band would be stretched for a longer distance (and shoot faster) than the same slingshot with a longer rubber-band. In much the same way, a short brace height bow stores more energy and shoots faster than a tall brace height bow (all other things being equal). So brace height has the same affect on total powerstroke length as does the bow's draw length setting. The only difference is that the brace height determines where you start and the draw length determines where you stop. But unlike draw lengths, brace heights aren't adjustable. So you have to get this one right the first time. You can't change your bow's brace height later, should you change your mind.

    If you compare brace heights and IBO speeds, you'll find an obvious correlation. Shorter brace heights tend to make for faster bows. Easy enough. Then it would seem that in order to get better performance from a compound bow, all you have to do is look for a model with a short brace height, right? Well, not so fast! Short brace height bows may be hot-performers, but they will come with a few drawbacks you should think about
    *A bow's AMO draw length is measured 1.75" beyond the grip pivot point. So a bow's powerstroke distance is found by subtracting the brace height and 1.75" from the AMO draw length.

    Brace Height - Speed vs. Forgiveness

    If you’ve been shopping for a new compound bow, you’ve certainly noticed a variety of advertised brace heights, generally ranging from 5-9". But if shorter brace heights result in faster bows, then why aren’t all bows designed with short brace heights? Trade-offs! That's why. Short brace heights aren't automatically favored because a bow's brace height has a profound effect on the bow’s forgiveness and shootability. Short brace height bows are generally less forgiving and require more skill to shoot accurately. Since the arrow is in contact with the string for a longer distance and period, there is more opportunity for any glitches in your shooting form (hand-torque, trigger punching, etc.) to have a detrimental effect on the arrow’s flight. Longer brace heights have the opposite effect, limiting the effects of form glitches. In addition, very short (sub-6") brace height bows tend to yield more string-slap on the shooter's forearm (ouch!). So there are some trade-offs to consider here.

    If you shoot with absolutely perfect form and technique, a short brace height bow will be just as accurate as it’s longer brace height cousins. But if you have average skills and are prone to occasional goof-ups, a bow with a little longer brace height will yield better accuracy in most shooting situations. The average new compound bow has a brace height of approximately 7". Bows with shorter brace heights (5-6.5") will be faster but less forgiving to shoot. Bows with longer brace heights (7.5-9") will generally shoot slower but will be more forgiving to your errors. Consider this carefully when choosing your new hunting or 3D bow. Unless you have a specific need for a blazing fast bow, you may find that a more moderate brace height will increase your enjoyment of archery and your success in the field. SPECIAL NOTE: Tall guys with draw lengths 30" and above should be especially conscious of brace height - as a long draw length and a short brace height are a particularly bad combination, especially for new shooters.

    Brace Height Market Trends

    Just as 300 fps seems to be the accepted IBO speed-minimum, 7 inches is the generally accepted brace height minimum in today's compound bow market. If you visit our compound bow specification charts, you'll surely notice that a disproportionate number of bows are advertised with exactly a 7" brace height. This isn't by accident. Experienced shooters - particularly bowhunters - tend to avoid short brace height bows, regarding any brace height under 7 inches as "radical" or "unforgiving". So a bow with a 6 7/8" brace height is often a lame duck - at least regarding bow sales. As such, most manufacturers try to aim to hit the market-pleasing 7+ inch brace heights on most of their new bow designs. As a matter of selecting a new bow, we submit there's probably no justification for such an exacting prejudice, as there's nothing particularly lucky about a 7" brace height. But that does seem to be the commonly accepted line-in-the-sand between performance and shootability.
    Short-Draw Archers - Built in Forgiveness

    If you are a short-draw archer (27" draw length or less), you'll be pleased to know you have a nice advantage regarding forgiveness and shootability on your compound bow. As we noted earlier, a bow which has a 6" brace height and is set for long 30" draw length will have 22.25" powerstroke. This means the during the shot, the arrow will remain in-contact with the string for approximately 23-24" (including string follow-thru) until the arrow finally releases. This would generally make for a rather unforgiving setup. But that same bow in the hands of the short-draw archer will be considerably MORE forgiving to shoot. If a short-draw archer shoots the same bow at - say - 26" draw length, his/her powerstroke will only be 18.25" long. So the short-draw archer's arrow gets off the string in a shorter distance - thus the short-draw archer has some "built-in" benefits of forgiveness. If you are a short-draw archer, don't spend too much time fretting over brace height. Instead, consider shooting a bow that's a little more aggressive. The same bow that might give your 6'4" hunting buddy fits, will be quite manageable when set for your short draw length. And choosing a more aggressive bow will help you to recover some of the speed and power lost in a short-draw setup.
     
  12. Daniel Boone

    Daniel Boone Senior Member

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    Second post

    He said his draw was 29"
    DB
     
  13. Daniel Boone

    Daniel Boone Senior Member

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    Good post

    Very good info.
    DB
     
  14. macdonda

    macdonda New Member

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    Short Brace Height Bowtech 82nd

    Hey, I'm new to the forum but just wanted to give my experience with brace height and speed bows. I bought an MQ1 in 2001 (brace height 7.5"). I shot off and on, never more than a couple of times a week. The bow was extremely smooth, easy to tune and my groupings were pretty good. The speed wasn't high (29.5" draw, 58lb, redline 460's with 80grain tips about 265fps). I decided last month to start shooting again. I went to the range and shot the 82nd. I couldn't believe the performance; I was a bit nervous about the short brace height but decided to give it a try. I'm shooting at least a couple of times a week now and take short videos to look at my posture (this helps a lot). With the same arrows & draw weight, it was putting out 317fps. My pins (10 yd increments) are just over 1/16" apart. In terms of brace height, I've only noticed an improvement in my accuracy and consistency; I don't know how much this is attributed to the bow or working on my posture. The guys at the shop said that it would be tough to tell the difference in performance with a 1" brace height difference.
     
  15. TEN RING

    TEN RING ONE SHOT ONE KILL

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    The short brace height on the new bows are not problem with the sts's string stopers the only thing I did not like about the 82nd is the short valley if you relax you are jerking forward if you can live with that the 82nd's for you the longer ata makes it shoot abull you may want to try an elite just a thought :wave:
     
  16. scottg

    scottg Huntin Junkie

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    I shoot the 82nd with speed mods. It is very different than most bows. The valley is very tight. It takes some getting used too. I can shoot 20-30 yds with one pin and only about 2" of drop between them. I was shooting a Tribute and there is a difference in the th way that they shoot. The short stop on the 82nd makes the wrist slapping not an issue. I have the Bow Jax insert for the short stop and it works very well. The bow is long and has some weight and for me, that makes me shoot better.
     
  17. Captain19

    Captain19 Grim Reaper of the Foam

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    The fact of the matter is more brace height is more forgiving than less. Shorter brace height equates more speed but is harder to shoot. If your gonna shoot a short brace than you have to pay more attention to how to grip the bow or it will be much easier to torque your shot. Longer brace heights are more forgiving with those suttle gripping inconsistancies. Shorter brace height bows are for serious archers who are experienced and well diciplined. And as far as one of the earlier posts stating short brace height is good for a hunting bow is not true. It is better suited to have a longer brace hieght. When your hunting and wearing gloves, excited or cold you wanna have all the forgiveness you can get when your shooting at that "Monster Buck" to ensure a hit. I shoot a 6" brace height bow for 3D target, and 7" brace for hunting. I can assure you what I say is true, that one inch is a world of difference.
     
  18. hstubblefield

    hstubblefield New Member

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    the genral would be a lot more forgiveing than the 82nd but the short brace height is geting some speed the 101st would be a good bow for 3d the genral is good for hunting