Forgiveness factor, can it be tested?

Discussion in 'General Archery Forum' started by Chris, Apr 2, 2008.

  1. Chris

    Chris Administrator Staff Member

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    What are your thoughts. Most say that BowA is more forgiving than BowB. It could be brace height or axle-to-axle length, proper arrow spine or whatever.

    Now the question is, can this be tested? I've been thinking about taking my hooter shooter to the outdoor range for some testing. But I need to put together some criteria for testing that could prove or disprove this theory.

    Any ideas? Is this possible?
     
  2. dbdcougar

    dbdcougar He Who Drops His Bow Arm

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    I guess the first thing is what are you actually trying to quantitatively measure when you say "forgiveness"? - that's a pretty subjective term to me.
     

  3. Chris

    Chris Administrator Staff Member

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    That's my whole point to this thread. Can it be measured, tested, proved?
     
  4. dbdcougar

    dbdcougar He Who Drops His Bow Arm

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    Is forgiveness how does a bows accuracy respond to small errors in form/etc. or is it how "gentle" is the draw curve? These are just 2 possible definitions. Don't know how you could consistantly induce the former and the latter can be plotted; I suppose using that definition the old wheel bows would be considered very forgiving! I'm thinking it's a pretty ambiguous term that will mean different things to different people. I have to admit I do grab up the old 55# Bear Whitetail every once in a long while and do a little 20yd shooting. It's still a good feeling bow "very forgiving?" - would it be my first choice to do anything with, heck no - but it goes with me to KY on every hunting trip down there just in case of a disaster! :eek:
     
  5. CSS Shooter

    CSS Shooter Senior Member

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    Chris I don't know if it can be done w/ a Hooter Shoter or not. IMHO I think the forgivingness that a certian bow has helps with mistakes like poor hand placement or the ever popular punching of the trigger. Let me know what you find out.
     
  6. clemenlp

    clemenlp Diamond in the Rough

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    This could be tested several ways. Now, I don't know exactly how a Hooter Shooter works, but here are several ways you can test it.

    1. you could loosen the way it fastens to the handle.
    2. you could loosen the way it fastens and adjust the angle (slightly) so that it aligns with the target, but that it could move slightly.

    Basically, you need to replicate with the hooter shooter what problems most people have with proper form, torqueing the grip, and punching the trigger. However, you should only adjust one factor to improper function at a time.

    One thing to keep in mind though is that this could put improper stress on certain components of the hooter and could tear it up.
     
  7. NerdHick

    NerdHick New Member

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    I think it could be done like Clem said, however I'd rather not be the one doing the testing, doesn't sound very safe!
     
  8. BUNNYMAN

    BUNNYMAN I pray for you!

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    Chris wants you to send him your Dren LD to test on:peace:
     
  9. Gator eye

    Gator eye Guest

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    It would be hard to have a test for forgiveness because everybody has they own idea of what a forgiving bow is. My is a long axle to axle and a slim handle. Those are the two things that cover my biggest flaws.
     
  10. NerdHick

    NerdHick New Member

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    No need to test my new rig!! :wave:
     
  11. jkcerda

    jkcerda the GOON squad POSEE

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    LOL.

    i doubt you can test forgiveness with a machine, maybe like Clem said, but will it be safe? specially to you.

    good luck.
     
  12. Brown Hornet

    Brown Hornet New Member

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    I say it can't be done :eek:

    reason being is the Hooter Shooter doesn't need a forgiving bow to shoot the same hole a trillion times in a row. It can even do it with a bow that is way out of "tune"...it could do it with a bow with a 2" brace height or a 8" brace height.

    When I hear "that bow is more forgiving"...it is always said because bow A has more brace height or is longer etc....

    There are more factors that go into a bow being forgiving....and things like brace height don't matter like it used to...plus a bow with a 6-7" brace height for a guy with a 27" draw isn't the same for a guy with a 29" draw...and also on the other end of the spectrum...a bow with a 33" axle to axle and a 8" brace is NOT more forgiving then a bow that is 38" with a 7" brace height...but people only look at #'s....they say I don't want a bow with a brace under 7.5" then go pick up an Ultra Elite with a 7" brace or less and shoot the crap out of it.....:doh:

    I have an example for you all...I have had my S4 set up two different ways...both bows were setup at 37-38"...one way the bow had a 6.75-7" brace (depending on which cables I had on it) the other way it had a 7.5-7.75" brace....which was more forgiving.... :D
     
  13. Slippy

    Slippy Buckeyes #1

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    it can probably be tested by some high speed machine and computers. Kinda like they do with golf clubs when they test them. But a human couldn't test them and provide 100% accurate results, no way.
     
  14. Jay Are

    Jay Are Junior Member

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    There are too many variables for shooting a bow... what makes one bow more forgiving to another has to do with the variables that are involved in shooting the bow (grip, limbs, cam, brace , ect...)

    Forgiveness cannot be generalized for every bow…


    Now if you want to talk about forgiveness about wives... no such thing, they never forgive!:tape:
     
  15. Slippy

    Slippy Buckeyes #1

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    yeah, I can't get one bow to consistently test, how the frick could I do it with multiple bows? :frusty:
     
  16. Chris

    Chris Administrator Staff Member

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    So the only thing we may be able to test is how each bow would handle grip torque and possibly creep tune situations. I think this could be done with a hooter shooter.

    But my thoughts on torque would not only be bow related but also arrow related. If you torque differently from shot to shot, I think a weaker spined arrow would be better than a stiff one.

    Just my thoughts. Could be an exercise in futility.:D
     
  17. clemenlp

    clemenlp Diamond in the Rough

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    Well, sounds like it's time for you to confirm those "just a thoughts".
     
  18. longcut36

    longcut36 Senior Member

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    I would think you could set up a bow that is tuned good and shoot different splined arrows thur paper to see how wide of a range you would have. the more misspline arrows you could shoot the more forgiven the bow would be. I think. maybe detune the bow some and see how much you can get by with and still get a good bullet hole. maybe change BH and tiller some. the more you change and still get a good bullet hole the more forgiven the bow is.???
     
  19. Brown Hornet

    Brown Hornet New Member

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    I still don't think that the grip idea would work....

    and the creep tuning doesn't really have anything to do with the bow itself...that is a tuning issue not a bow issue.

    But yes a weaker spined arrow (not a weak arrow) is more forgiving then a stiff arrow is.:D That can be proven by using a bad/varying grip...punching the release or adding other influences to the shot.
     
  20. Brown Hornet

    Brown Hornet New Member

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    Arrows don't have spLines....

    but a bow can be tuned to shoot a weak arrow to an off the chart stiff arrow. With proper shot execution it won't matter.....I have set up different bows and shot arrows from 3-28 or other shaft that was to weak all the way up to a 2613 and other fat shafts that would be off the chart stiff and gotten them all to shoot bullet holes through paper without changing anything on the bow.

    A bows forgiveness has ZERO to do with getting a bullet hole in paper neither does arrow spine...and a bullet hole in paper doesn't mean much anyway.....