KE is smoke & Mirrors...Bogus advertising

Discussion in 'General Archery Forum' started by oldbuck, Jan 16, 2008.

  1. oldbuck

    oldbuck New Member

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    To those bow manufactures that advertise their bows KE (Kinetic Energy)
    This is misleading and bogus sales BS.
    There are maybe 1/10 of 1% of archers out there that can shoot a bow at max draw, max draw weight with a max weight arrow.
    Also the bow would have to perform at its advertised IBO speed, again, not likely.
    This is a THEORETICAL possiblity with NO reality for the vast majority of archers.
    All archers should compare an arrows KE based on their individual bow and setup. Not some hype that is misleading at best.
    Archers, do your own homework and make decisions based on fact, not hype.
    oldbuck
     
  2. OneMustFall

    OneMustFall Member

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    !

    wow,did someone miss snack time!
     

  3. IChim2

    IChim2 IChim2 and he's a shooter

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    :lol: It didn't go well over at A/T either.:lol:
     
  4. J.C.

    J.C. New Member

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    Are you saying people who have a 30" draw and can pull 70# only make up 1/10 of 1% of the archery population?
     
  5. oldbuck

    oldbuck New Member

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    Its still BS

    Sorry you don't subscribe to the facts of a "Bows" KE. Its an arrow fps and total weight, not the bow that KE is calculated from. This forum should be focussing on reality and not hype, unless of course that person has a different motive. As a "Senior" member I would think that you would support factual information and not hype. I guess thats not the case. Sorry about that also.
    oldbuck
     
  6. oldbuck

    oldbuck New Member

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    Clarification...

    Its 80# and 30,5" draw I referred to. Max weight and draw length.
    Thanks
    oldbuck
     
  7. IChim2

    IChim2 IChim2 and he's a shooter

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    The KE and speed thing has been kicked around as much as the Alum vs Carbon.I can honestly say that i've never bought a bow based on the hype of speed or KE.Most all companies post hype in advertising and it's up to the buyer to know/learn as much as possible about IBO ratings, and how it will effect the bow with the DL that the peson has thats buying it.If you buy a new bow that has an ibo of 320fps based on a 29/30 dl but the buyer has a dl of 27.....all i can say,is good luck getting there.Like i said,it's up to the buyer to understand how all of it works.jmo
     
  8. BUNNYMAN

    BUNNYMAN I pray for you!

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    WOW.........
    where in the HELL did this come from???.......

    noone was argueing with you here, and then you attack the senior MEMBERS.......

    why dont you ask the question, do you believe in the manufactures numbers FIRST, then we will understand your off the wall posts.......

    NO ONE INCLUDING MY SELF IS SAYING YOU ARE WRONG...........

    so why get upset at something that happened on AT if it had NOTHING TO DO WITH THIS FORUM.........

    and they say the older you get the wiser you get.........

    is this by any chance your 1st couple of days discovering cameras, the internet, and forums????

    I really liked you first couple of threads, about the stuff you had built, but in MY opinion you need to calm down there buddy........YOUR KINDA OLD .........would hate to see you suffer the first forum induced heart attack, ARGUING with YOUR SELF........
     
  9. IChim2

    IChim2 IChim2 and he's a shooter

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    OB,i'm sorry if i ruffled your feathers...i was funnin a bit.But all jokes aside....i don't buy into any of the hype...if you look at my sig/you'll see i'm shooting 500gr arrows.
     
  10. BUNNYMAN

    BUNNYMAN I pray for you!

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    1 MORE THING...........(pay attention cause its FACT)

    I work in a shop (and have on and off for about 7 years)........

    I HAVE NEVER HEARD A PERSON WALK IN THE DOOR AND SAY,

    "how much KE does that bow have??"

    most people dont even know what it means in ARCHERY equipment.......
     
  11. TOOL

    TOOL Junior Member

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    But isn't the propulsion of a given arrow weight at a given speed (production of K.E.) product of bow design and testimony of ability. And isn't advertising supposed to be based on maximum possibility. Basing on maximum potential allows for common comparison.
     
  12. oldbuck

    oldbuck New Member

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    KE needs a standard test

    Well I hoped for some debate…and I got it ! ha ha

    To borrow from one our presidential hopefuls, he said “If you’re taking flak, you must be over the target”

    First I want to make it clear, I do not sell any archery products, so my objectives may be different than some on the forums that do sell product.

    If we (archers) are going to measure a bows possible performance based on KE then it is necessary to establish consistent ways to measure it, a standard.

    IBO speed uses 30” draw x 70# with a 350 grain arrow. Now you have a consistent way of comparing a bows arrow speed.

    If we are going to look at KE then let’s ask for 30” draw x 70# draw weight with a heavy arrow. Let’s pick 7 grains per pound, a 490 grain arrow.
    Now we have results that can be compared.

    If you use 80# at 30.5” draw with an arrow of??? Weight or some other arbitrary combination it does not provide a way to compare that bow with another.

    The fog of marketing prevails.

    If we archers want this info, a standard needs to be adopted. Email your favorite bow manufacturer and tell them.

    I believe the forums are way to promote honesty in archery information and not perpetuate more sales fog and BS.

    Thanks to the forums for the opportunity to express opinions and not personal attacks on individuals.

    oldbuck
     
  13. BUNNYMAN

    BUNNYMAN I pray for you!

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    as long as they all use 30-70-350........

    why cant we use that as a comparison????
     
  14. Gator eye

    Gator eye Guest

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    30-70 at 350 is the standard but why not have a standard to which is more real world?
    say
    28" at 70 at 400 grain would be closer to real world results and would give a better idea of what a bow is really shooting.
     
  15. IChim2

    IChim2 IChim2 and he's a shooter

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    So where would that leave me at shooting 70lbs...30dl.....and a 500gr arrow.
     
  16. oldbuck

    oldbuck New Member

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    Great Idea!

    More ideas like this will make it better for all of us!
    Real world data that relates to most archers.
    Thanks Gator eye
    oldbuck
     
  17. xxSPOTTSxx

    xxSPOTTSxx "THE REALITY CHECK"

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    Excellent choice Gator.
    All our bows come in at 29" but if standard was 28-70-400 then -2" +2"
    on dl would make more sense to most archers.
     
  18. Dredly

    Dredly Site Guru

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    You mean why don't we use the AMO standard instead of IBO?

    Under this standard the bow being tested will have a maximum pull weight of 60lbs. The arrow will have a grain weight of 540(9 grains of arrow weight per pound of bow weight). The draw length will be set at 30 inches. The chronograph used for measuring the speed will be placed at point blank range for testing.

    Wow what a concept...

    the reason this isn't used is because MOST hunters (yes the vast majority) shoot 70 pounds for hunting, not 60, and they don't shoot 540 grain arrows, even with hunting setups. Most manufacturers do (or used to) advertise the AMO speed as well.

    Using KE as your "argument" for advertsing is just a poor solution as it is even easier to pull the wool over the buyers eyes with KE then with speed, unless you are using a standard (and there isn't one). Especially considering how little KE changes with speed and how drastically it changes with weight. a bow shooting a 350 arrow gains 2 pounds of KE / 5fps increase. If you up the arrow weight by 50 grains and keep the speed at 300 fps you gain something like 10 pounds of KE. Heck using 4 inch plastic veins and standard inserts instead of glueins and blazers can easily give you an extra 5 pounds of KE (the equivelant of 15 fps speed increase)

    Good luck making that a standard :lol:
     
  19. Gator eye

    Gator eye Guest

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    Good answer.....as usual.:peace:
     
  20. oldbuck

    oldbuck New Member

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    You are missing the point

    dredly
    Regardless of what standard is used to advertise KE, it needs to be a standard. Not an arbitrary combination of factors.
    Heck...I don't even like KE as measurement of bow performance or to advertise it. We agree on that already. I don't know how you understood I liked the KE marketing BS ??. BUT...if the manufacturers are going to use KE it should be to a standard measurement.
    thanks for your views
    oldbuck